MovieChat Forums > The Darjeeling Limited (2007) Discussion > If you're going to use India as a prop, ...

If you're going to use India as a prop, at least get things right.


As someone who's been to India several times and has deep connections there, there were several things about this movie that really bothered me.

1. Couuldn't Waris Aluwhalia just fake an Indian accent for this role? I guess he was brought up in the US, but any ABCD kid can do a passable fake Indian accent. It's how they make fun of their parents. It's just silly that a porter on an Indian train would have a straight American accent.

2. The character of Rita was totally unbelievable. It's not that it's totally unheard of for an Indian girl to hook up with some foreigner in today's India. But the kind of girl who works as a stewardess on the Indian railway is not that kind of girl. An educated, professional woman in a Mumbai or Bangalore, maybe. In general, the servers on the Indian railway are uneducated and poor, and those types of people tend to be more traditional. Plus, it looked like they were doing it in the bathroom. Has anyone ever seen the bathroom on an Indian train? Disgusting!

3. Why call the film "The Darjeeling Limited" and then film the whole thing in Rajasthan? These two places are thousands of miles apart on completely opposite sides of the country. They have totally different climates and cultures. It's like calling a film "The Montana Express" and then filming the whole thing in a Louisiana Swamp.

Stupid stuff like this made it hard to actually enjoy the movie.

Omar listenin'

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1. I have no idea why, but I have a feeling it was intentional. I think that because everyone else had an accent.

2. If you paid any attention she was always talking about how she was trying to get out of there, I don't think she was traditional in any sense of the word. As far as the bathroom...I thought the same thing.

3. Wasn't "The Darjeeling Limited" the name of the train? If it wasn't it was really similar.

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I also got the impression that the porter intentionally didn't have an accent. Like you said, it's easy enough to fake (even easier to use someone else) but he didn't. Because...well, I dunno. Is catching a poisonous snake with a spatula realistic Indian behaviour? If not then I really don't think any of it matters.

We're seeing a romantic, Beatles version of India from the brothers point of view, as a place to go on a 'spiritual journey' rather than a real representation of the country. In fact the whole thing is probably imagined by Jack in one of his stories.

Also when the stewardess said 'I've really got to get off this train' it struck me as a cheesy line that Jack might write in one of his stories. So I guess most of her scenes were imagined by him.

I know what you mean though about films set in countries which are nothing at all like the countries they're supposed to be. Hiro's version of Japan from Heroes annoyed me no end until he discovered he was a character in an American comic book. After that I had no problem with it.

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I've really got to get off this train' it struck me as a cheesy line that Jack might write in one of his stories. So I guess most of her scenes were imagined by him.


Did you even watch the movie? Jack is incapable of writing fiction. The other brothers constantly refer to recognizing themselves in his stories. Moreover, the short story from which he reads an excerpt is exactly what transpired between him and his ex-girlfriend in "Hotel Chevalier." Quite tellingly, he tells his brothers that he's not going to go to Italy, and the character in the story says the same thing.

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Exactly. People on this board keep talking about unrealistic dialogue, and I don't get that at all because the "unrealistic" lines are exactly how people talk in a Wes Anderson movie.

The only character who even remotely sounds "realistic" is Peter and that's probably done deliberately to make him seem more normal than the other two guys.

I dunno... maybe people in my part of the world are more "cheesy" than I realized, but that "I've really got to get off this train" line seemed to me like a pretty reasonable way of saying that she doesn't like her job. One could argue that the way she delivered the line was too American, but the vocal inflection and everything made perfect sense to me. People here in Washington state talk that way all the time.

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The thing I don't get is why the hell everyone on here has to be so damn technical!
It's a movie. It's entertainment, so who gives a sh*t where it was filmed and wether or not it's accurate. That part isn't important. If you are so uptight about something in a movie you've acctually experienced, and you've just gotta nit pick; I'm begging you. Keep your mouth shut, save us all the trouble and don't see the damn movie in the first place. Enjoy if for what it is. Is The Darjeeling Limited a documentary on life in India. Hell no.

India was not a prop by the way, it was the setting.
My god... I feel better.
Lets leave these open for people who actually like the movie, not for people who have a constant negitive thought ready to pop out at any moment.

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Hi,

Me too, been to India multiple times, solid roots, etc.

I just watched the DVD, might watch it again.

Both characters, the chief steward and Rita, did
not have Indian accents. I might have to see it again to
catch the humor.

Bugs the heck out of me if people watch this and then think
Darjeeling is in the desert. ''Where are the tea plantations?''
Do it Right or don't do it at all.

Cheers.

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Yes thanks, I did watch the movie. In which Jack wrote lots of stories based heavily on himself and other people he knew. Doesn't mean he didn't make stuff up too or exagerate or just be an inept writer (ever try writing a literal account of your own memories?). There's a couple of other threads related to exactly how literal Jack's recollections of events is in his writing. Your (or indeed my) interpretation of the movie are our opinions. Nothing was spelled out exactly.

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Yeah, and while you're at it they should remake Life Aquatic. That's nothing like how real marine biologists operate. How are we supposed to learn about India and marine biology with these glaring errors in film??

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As a marine biologist, I was offended and shocked. If you're not going to accurately portray how aquatic animals live and meticulously demonstrate how real scientists study those creatures, then don't bother.

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Sanjuro-15

Your interpretation of the imagined stories is ridiculous, typical film snub trying to see things that are not there.

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Yea, doesn't Peter ask Jack "Was it supposed to be so sad?" when reading his book (i assume this is the part where they get their dad's car since Peter later mentions the attendant) or something along those lines? There is a little bit of flair and bias to Jack's writing even if it is basically factual.

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They also said that the convent is at the foot of the Himalayas, but when you look out there you see ocean.

Seems to be a fantasy India.

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1. maybe the character chose to fake an american accent? maybe the character grew up in cleveland? did you really want to hear cheesypuff pushpush? I know I didn't.

2. so you've met every conservative Indian-train staffer? Let alone just the female ones? I think it would be possible for a handsome, rich Westerner to hook-up with a poor, Indian girl working a train.

3. Admitting you'd like this film *more* if it was called The Rajasthan Limited instead of The Darjeeling Limited makes you a first-class fool in my book.



attention grammar-cops: you're not as smart as you expect from us.

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"2. so you've met every conservative Indian-train staffer? Let alone just the female ones? I think it would be possible for a handsome, rich Westerner to hook-up with a poor, Indian girl working a train."

Obviously you have never been to India or really know what their extreme value-based culture is like.

That scenario is highly highly improbable.

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Get over yourself, its set in a quirky slightly fantastical world. i'm sure the director didn.t expect us to believe that this is some true reflection of India. In fact if it was a realistic representation of any kind of long train journey it would have been a fairly turgid pile of balls. Do you want holiday snaps or ROMANTICISM. I'll bet the Indians you met thought you were a riot.

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Obviously you have never been to India or really know what their extreme value-based culture is like.
She had a English accent, meaning she was raised there. So she would likely have English values, not extremely conservative Indian ones. There is no problem here.






Orgies are not too much fun if no one wants to do it with you.

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She had a English accent, meaning she was raised there. So she would likely have English values, not extremely conservative Indian ones.

The actress was raised in England. The character? I don't think you'll find too many English women of Indian descent working on Indian trains. But it's a Wes Anderson film, not social realism. People need to lighten up. Really.

I used to want to change the world. Now I just want to leave the room with a little dignity.

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1. Wes Anderson has an active imagination.
2. Wes Anderson has an active imagination.
3. Wes Anderson has an active imagination.

Stupid stuff like this made it hard to actually enjoy the movie.

My best advice is to not watch anymore of his movies. He takes much artistic license, creating completely oddball characters, putting them in unlikely situations while they say off-the-wall things in never-heard-of places.

[Insert unoffensive, unpretentious sig here.]

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Ok, For F*c&'s Sake!!!
The Damn Train Is Named The Darjeeling Limited, not the location the movie was shot in. If you payed more than an ounce of attention you would have caught that. My god,

And second,
They are not supposed to have Idian accents, like the post above, the whole movie is about being somewhere else, where maybe you don't belong.

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I don't think this film was supposed to accurately represent India, any more than Life Aquatic accurately represents professional marine biology studies or Rushmore accurately represents life in a private school. And they're not any less entertaining for it. It's all Wes Anderson world, and god bless him. Great movie.

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1. you've never met a foreign speaker without an accent?

2. way to stereotype. EVERY stewardess wouldn't bang a stranger, the servers are stupid and poor and all stupid and poor people are traditional. your comments are more offensive than anything projected in the movie. and im sure that there are indian trains that have clean bathrooms

3. do you know how many movies are actually shot ON LOCATION? not many.

you're, for lack of a better word, an idiot.

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It really is amazing the lengths people will still go to to justify the crap that Wes Anderson is producing nowadays.

Every time his films have something completely ridiculous and unrealistic, he meant to do it that way. Because all his movies are just metaphors, or they all take place in a character's head, or it's magical realism, yeah, that's it, yeah.

It couldn't be that he's just an out-of-touch hack who repeatedly casts movies with his own circle of private friends, even when they aren't right for the part at all.

As for people complaining that it doesn't need to portray India correctly because it's just a movie, you are being very small minded and you are probably just knee-jerk Anderson fanboys trying to convince yourself this movie was actually good.
If Anderson wants to make a fairy-tale NYC for Tennenbaums, that's cool. An American audience can easily tell that it's not realistic, and as an American he's free to do that. But in this day and age, when you use a foreign country and it's religion and culture as a major part of your film, you need to show some respect. Part of showing respect is getting at least a few details right. Not doing that is called Orientalism, or racism.

As for those people saying it's perfectly normal to have Indian train stewards with American accents or stewardesses who will screw an American guy in a bathroom while on the job and 5 minutes after meeting him, you know nothing about India.

Omar listenin'

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Wes Anderson... Racist!
Oh My God! Get Danny Glover out of Royal Tenenbaums before some one finds out.
Come on man.
I feel the need to defeand this movie due to the fact that I personally thought this film was wonderfull, one of my favories of his. *My opinion*. I found nothing wrong with it, and the reason you have found to trash it was... It didn't portray Indian life and culture accuratley?
I may be a WA fan, but if something is off, I'll admit it.
What I'm trying to say is, there was so much more to this movie than just the setting and the underlying culture of it. Watch it again, and try and ignore that little itch to pay attention to all the "in-accurate" portrayals of India.
I think WA was respectful, these brothers were going to pray, follow customs, seek elightenment as a family for the first time in a year. They didn't go to demean or belittle these people, or demoralize the country. They went there for a spiritual experience, and I for one would be honored if people flocked to my country for that. Sounds kind of respectfull to me.
Honestly is that the only contention you have with this film? If it had been set in Tibet or Kentucky would you feel the same?
I have an Indian friend I've known since high school, his parents still go back to Bunglapor 2 or 3 times a year taking my fried along. He loved this movie... imagine that, a real Indian guy enjoying such an inaccurate film about his home country. What are the chances.



*Note*
I was thinking about the issue with the accents, with Rita and Warice. They were together, and both seemed destrout about being on the train, and neither wanted to be there. I felt that maybe they had been raised here, and had gone back to India, because of family/parents or friends, and were both working on the train. Just a thought.


------------------------------------------
Elliott Smith, Jeff Buckley
R.I.P

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As for those people saying it's perfectly normal to have Indian train stewards with American accents or stewardesses who will screw an American guy in a bathroom while on the job and 5 minutes after meeting him, you know nothing about India.


you are clearly not a golfer.

I'm learning to speak Telugu and Punjabi. I play Cricket and Field Hockey. Kishore Kumar is my favorite Bollywood Composer. How much more do I need to know about India?

It would take a lifetime to prove your claims.

And as for NO train-girls sleeping with handsome, rich westerners within 5 minutes? LOL. I imagine I could disprove this on the first train we sample.

I'll buy the shorma.



attention grammar-cops: you're not as smart as you expect from us.

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Hey, you can make alot of anonymous claims about yourself on the internet! Congratulations!

If you can find a stewardess on an Indian train you would actually want to sleep with, then your standards are way too low. A stewardess on JET airways maybe. But then we are talking about a totally different class of woman, which was my point in the first place.


Omar listenin'

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no, that was not your point at all. you were suggesting it was completely impossible for any female train employee to indulge in casual sex with a handsome, rich Westerner on said train.

I agree it is unlikely, but it is definitely not impossible.


attention grammar-cops: you're not as smart as you expect from us.

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Likelihood in the context of this movie is a nonissue. It's not like WA and co. are sending her to the moon, riding a rocket. Rita's sexual freedom is perfectly fine within the confines of the story.

It's better to be hated for ehat you are than to be loved for what you are not.

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my point being that (in addition to being better looking) an airline stewardess would be more worldly, modern, and likely to go for the foreign dude, unlike a train stewardess who would more likely be poorer, less educated, more traditional, etc.

Omar listenin'

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I understand your point, sciotofloods, and it would be a good one, if not for the fact that this movie takes place in a world of thoughts, values, etc., that is completely made up by WA. It is a moot point in this context.

It's better to be hated for ehat you are than to be loved for what you are not.

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As an Indian woman living in India, I will tell you that it is far more likely for an Indian stewardess on a train to end up having sex with a foreigner five minutes after meeting him than a Jet Airways stewardess. A working professional woman from Mumbai and Delhi would tend to actually get to know the person first.

I agree about the accents as well as the name of the train. However, I don't think it brings down the enjoyable aspects of a movie to that degree.


But He's way too young!

Yep, all 18-year-olds are virgins.

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Come on ya, you know that never happens. For an educated working URBAN (sorry, there's no bold button here, so I'm using caps) woman, hooking up with a firang wouldn't be an absolute no-no, although she would, like you said get to know the guy a little bit first (though a one night stand isn't ruled out by any means).
But stewardesses in trains have a really dismal salary, generally from not very economically well off backgrounds, not too educated and COSMOPOLITAN (point to be noted) wouldn't really be open to such an encounter. Of course there are exceptions, and I guess we can grant Anderson some artistic license.
Someone on a feminist blog (Shameless mag, I think) brought up the point of whether Anderson was objectifying women of colour in his films. Don't really agree with all the points, but it was an interesting read. I think Rita was a strong, independent woman, but she was also trapped on that train, I guess which is why she felt impulsive and hooked up with Jack and they also shared a connection. I wish her character was better sketched out, though, it just seemed sort of hollow. If we understood her better, maybe the situation wouldn't seem to "unnatural" or "inauthentic" to Indian viewers like us.

Ultimately, if we can suspend our disbelief and happily watch Bollywood films, I think we can cut Anderson some slack. I agree, I get pissed off when someone gets basics about my country wrong, or tries to exoticize (is that a word?) it (*ahem*Slumdog*ahem*), specially with the whole poor third world country *beep* But this was a lovingly made film about 3 neurotic brothers, set in a sort of typical firang spiritual journey in India motif. It does sort of laugh at itself and for most of the time, it's a loving, non-racist and pretty authentic film (specially like the observation "They're playing cricket with a tennis ball!")

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Ultimately, if we can suspend our disbelief and happily watch Bollywood films, I think we can cut Anderson some slack. I agree, I get pissed off when someone gets basics about my country wrong, or tries to exoticize (is that a word?) it (*ahem*Slumdog*ahem*), specially with the whole poor third world country *beep* But this was a lovingly made film about 3 neurotic brothers, set in a sort of typical firang spiritual journey in India motif. It does sort of laugh at itself and for most of the time, it's a loving, non-racist and pretty authentic film (specially like the observation "They're playing cricket with a tennis ball!")
Well said. We really don't need a tourist *ahem*OP*ahem* deciding how India should be portrayed, especially given the three original show-offy "Hey, I've been to India!" reasons.

Om Mani Padme Hum

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Finding an Indian stewardess to sleep with on a train seems fairly unlikely to me as on all the Indian trains I've experienced the staff are always male.

I liked this film but the steward's accent was disconcerting, as was the name of the train. I have been on a train called The Darjeeling Mail, which goes to Darjeeling. Apparently Anderson was in Darjeeling when he got the idea to make this film, so it's almost as if he's being purposely irritating.

burnt_toast

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i think you are onto something very important here - that the view of india here is highly exoticized. to add to your list of cribs, funerals in india don't involve people getting into white rickshaws, and the entire scene being completely white with everyone's clothes and tractors and camels matching.

but i think this accusation of exocticised localities misses a simple point - is it possible to authentically display an area? no it is not.

had this film been about indian characters, the exoticism would have been more dubious. but this is about clueless americans trying to go on a spiritual journey. hence, for them everything about this place is magical and exotic. i think that is pretty much obvious. the more interesting bits are the ones that seem to be unplanned, such as adrien brody's comment about cricket with tennis balls, or the boy on the bike who shakes jason schwartzman's hands. those seem to have caught the filmmaker by surprise as well. but the rest of it is about the american view of things.

of course the stewardess's character is fake. i don't think anyone can imagine someone who had the ability to speak english in an english accent would be stuck as a stewardess on a train with her boyfriend. there are too many contradictions there that have been deliberately put in.

i think what is oriental is your assumption that there is some intrinsic respect that should be accorded to the foreign, but not the local, like NYC in your case. that's what creates an "other" which keeps such stereotypes alive. when someone makes those stereotypes ironic and unreal, such as is being done here, it becomes more poignant.

finally, mean streets is often cited as one of the quintessential New York movies. it was shot predominantly in LA.

Everything is Becoming, Nothing Is - Plato

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"If Anderson wants to make a fairy-tale NYC for Tennenbaums, that's cool. An American audience can easily tell that it's not realistic, and as an American he's free to do that."

So, all American's are born with extensive knowledge of New York City? Even the ones in Alaska?

Also, I now have to be from a country in order to make a film about that country that isn't 100% accurate to geography, culture, and religion or I'm being 'racist'? Isn't that a 'racist' point of view? I mean, should you even watch a film made for an American audience, in the first place. That's kind of disrespecting the filmmakers, who weren't prepared for your 'foreign' interpretation of their film.

It can be noted I'm in no way an Anderson fanboy and I hated this movie.

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So, all American's are born with extensive knowledge of New York City? Even the ones in Alaska?
good point

Om Mani Padme Hum

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To be honest, not having any presumptions or any presets based on race is kind of the opposite of racism. The whole part about how people would behave is extremely iffy, I really don't think you can fault anyone for not immediately presuming stereotypes are correct however correct they may be statistically. I'm German for example, does that mean if i was to be portrayed in a movie it would be unrealistic that i speak english with an australian accent, care in no way about the prussian ideals (tidiness, precision etc.) and am not a nazi, (rather the extreme opposite)? Because all those things are true about me. German stereotypes are way more annoying then seeing a rather odd german in a film.
So point being= Racial Stereotypes are woarse than just a random character.

Cogito ergo Sum

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I have never been to India, but there were still aspects of the portrayal of the country and its people that made me cringe a bit while watching. I don't agree with blanket prohibitions of "cultural appropriation" in all contexts, because blending cultures is a natural and positive aspect of human society--when done respectfully. So Peter Gabriel and Paul Simon incorporating "world music" elements into their albums, totally cool by me. David Bowie with the satirical "Asian" motif in the song "China Girl", maybe not such a great idea.

And this whole movie was so lightweight, it comes across like a lark. Which makes the Orientalism in it a little sketchy, because it really does use India as a prop, kind of a goof.

Sure, Anderson plays with his settings in a lighthearted way across his filmography. But I think the OP nailed it in the above comment:

"If Anderson wants to make a fairy-tale NYC for Tennenbaums, that's cool. An American audience can easily tell that it's not realistic, and as an American he's free to do that. But in this day and age, when you use a foreign country and it's religion and culture as a major part of your film, you need to show some respect. Part of showing respect is getting at least a few details right. Not doing that is called Orientalism, or racism."

So if someone is going to make a movie that mocks India and Indians, it probably ought to be a South Asian person, not a white American who is doing it all like ": "Duuude, check out how weird this place is, lol".

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Nothing in this film says to me "check out how weird this place is." It felt like an accurate and reverential depiction of the country. Besides, it was nothing more than the backdrop for the story. They could just as well have been in Montana, Louisiana, or Tanzania. This was about three brothers coming to terms with their upbringing and their relationships with one another, and their mother. Never once do I feel like India is being mocked or demeaned. I see three city dwellers out of their element, trying to process the death of their father and absence of their mother.

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If you want a documentary try Discovery Channel...

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You are ignorant is what I can say.

1. Not all Indians have an accent. They picked this american raised Indian Actor because Indian Sikhs with out an Indian accent are highly educated and would not be interested in acting out such a small role in a movie.

2.I do agree that the character of Rita is totally unbelievable. Such a character does not exist on Indian train. India also has its share of sluts. But your second point included the toilets. You are right the toilets on Indian trains are dirty.
But this is a tourist train for crying out loud. Not only tourist trains but also the Rajdhani and Shatabdi express have great toilets. Also the First Class compartment all have clean toilets in any train. The darjeeling express is entirely first class or maybe even more higher you can the train elite class.
3.That comes to your third point. They were on a train name The darjeeling express hence the name and they are trying to get to darjeeling.

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1. I’m sure this was by design. Didn’t really fit neatly into your stereotypes, did it?
2. I’m sure this was by design. Didn’t really fit neatly into your stereotypes, did it?
3. “The Darjeeling Limited” was the name of the train.


Om Mani Padme Hum

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These aren't my stereotypes. They aren't stereotypes at all. They are general observations gained from actual personal experience and cultural enquiry.

Of course a film maker can create characters that act in ways that are completely opposite from how a real person in their circumstances would act. You could have a opera singer who performed only in sign language. That would really break some stereotypes. But you know what? It would be ridiculous.

Also, if this is by design, please tell me what was Anderson's design? What is he trying to say by casting someone like Aluwhalia, an amateur actor (at best) who makes no attempt to capture the reality of a character? What is the artistic purpose of all of this nonsense?

Anderson fanboys defend the eccentricities of Anderson by saying that they are part of the design of the film, or they are jokes. What is expressed by his increasingly artificial and out of touch film making style? Where is the humor in this? How many clever little plays within novels within movies within plays can he make?

Who cares any more?




Omar listenin'

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1. Who is to say that he wasn't from America? Do you find that ridiculous?
2. Who is to say that she wasn't in charge of her own sexuality? Is it so ridiculous to you that she was?
3. "The Darjeeling Limited" was the name of the train.

Om Mani Padme Hum

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From your user-name and tag-line, I guess you are a Buddhist. I know you all like to sound wise and obtuse. You're doing pretty well with the obtuse part.

1. Yes, it is ridiculous. Anyone who thinks about it for more than a second would realize it is. But maybe you are working on your "non-discriminating mind."
2. For a women in this situation, yes.
3. You're really proud of this one, aren't you?

WMBWBPO
(what message boards would Buddha post on) should be a bumper sticker or a t-shirt


Omar listenin'

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Wow, you took being wrong pretty badly.

Om Mani Padme Hum

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And verily I say unto you, my bhikkus, though there be as many threads on as many message boards as there are grains of sand on all the beaches of all the worlds in all the Buddha realms, on all of those threads, my bhikkhus, you must have the last word.


Omar listenin'

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You poor thing. You've completely fallen apart.

Om Mani Padme Hum

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ha ha ha ha ha.

after watching the life aquatic i decided to become a marine biologist because i want to see these fantastic creatures that were in the movie!!

everything that i see on film must be accurate or someone's seriously messed up their job.. WES ANDERSON im talking to you!

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[deleted]

I agree, it's amazing

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