MovieChat Forums > Redbelt (2008) Discussion > For those of you who don't 'Get it'...

For those of you who don't 'Get it'...


To watch this movie is to realize that it took real guts to make it in the first place. This movie is about honor, integrity and being truthful to one's self and one's belief's. The reason I say it takes guts is because the "Bad Guy" in this movie is HOLLYWOOD. Not Tim Allen's character per se but the entertainment machine. It grabs everything with any virtue and turns it into a greedy whore of an industry. Chet comes across as a good man who really listens to Mike's philosophies. It's his manager (Mantegna) who does the stolen watch drive by that screws everything up. We're further introduced to the way relationships work in hollywood... they don't. Not unless you're willing to be used or sell out your beliefs. Jiu Jitsu just happens to be the best vehicle to explain these points contrasting a style of martial art, largely thought of as the most violent, being taught by a main character that comes off as the most gentle of souls. Mike Terry is the honorable character, who I'll admit seem to be too naive & trusting for his age while living in L.A., surrounded by backstabbing plastic people including his wife who turns on him, that series of circumstances leads to a suicide.
The fight at the end starts with the student teaching the teacher (the slap) Even Terry has to get his mind right and realize that the battle is about what he loves and who he is Jiu Jitsu. And that he has to keep it from being ruined the same way everyone around him has. Seemingly minor characters stay close to him at the end and we realize they have the most important thing in common. That which is real and everlasting. The truth, real respect, honor and just being real. Did ANY of you notice how the samurai belt was accepted with honor but given away? he thing worth money was respectfully tossed aside. It was the Red Belt that was honored as it is a symbol of the man. Of balance and all the important thing hollywood has lost.

This movie was a slight against the industry it was made in and a great many of the people working in it. Deservedly so. If you guys don't see that for the genius it is.... Then maybe you should be sweating the details of the shot or the dialogue. You're missing the bigger picture. It's not just a film. This was a good lesson.

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Thank you. I didnt realize that.

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Talking about holloywood? How about mma itself? The largest promoters in the sport are casino owners, the fertittas, who are widely rumored to be paying off judges and refs.

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I would like to hear more about the things you are talking about, e.g. refs being paid off. Are you able to share more on this forum, or perhaps provide some links or references for further information?

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Excellent post, ThikSkin. I agree with you, and thought the movie was incredibly well done. It's kind of an old lesson: "Money corrupts," but I thought the character of Mike Terry was really well played and the movie overall very well done.

http://ablueballoon.blogspot.com/

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Thankyou. Well said :)

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I understand the message n whatnot but the end just confused the hell out of me and pissed me off at the same time. How in the hell did they know why he was fighting? For all they knew, he was just pissed and kicking ass for no reason. It just didn't make sense. If they knew, it would have made a bigger impact rather than just ending with the feeling of "What?" I am sorry but the end fight didn't make sense. Everything else was just gravy but ::sigh:: it had mad potential. I feel unsatisfied with such a great build up and written by my favorite playwright. DAMMIT!

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The crowd didn't know why he was fighting, that's why they were stunned and silent the whole time. There was no "slow clapper" or spontaneous applause. Even as he walked into the ring and gets the belt from the Professor, there is no applause. Those people don't get it. The only two people who understand what happened are the Professor and the Asian guy that was going to fight and, most likely, was in on the whole rigging of the fight. The assumption can be that he realized he was wrong and was without true honor, thus giving the belt to the man that fought against greed and corruption. The Professor clearly knew the whole thing was a farce and a bastardization of the honor and beauty of martial arts; this is evidenced when Mike enters the arena before the climactic fight and sees the look on the Professor's face--one of true sadness, disgust, and lose of hope to see how far his art has fallen and how seemingly irredeemable it has become. When Mike triumphs, the Professor passes the mantle--or in this case the belt--to the true warrior.

Does that clear it up for you?

Remember, only two people really understand why the two are fighting and we are shown this by the way they react when Mike triumphs. The rest of the audience, the entire audience including the announcers, are just stunned and confused. They fight is not being taped because it is symbolic, they are taping it because to them it is just more entertainment. In fact, what I love about the ending is that it seems like Mike is going to go into the ring and make a speech, which of course would be over-done and uncomfortably preachy, but instead we get this moment of true humanity, true respect. The audience at the fight does not need to know why this is happening, because they are just as corrupt as the business and it would be preaching to deaf ears.

The only other person who reacts is the Laura (Emily Mortimer, a fantastic actress). She would not have understood things if she had not been closely involved in helping Mike--and being helped by Mike--over the course of the film. One also gets the impression that she was told by Mike that the whole fight was a sham in the parking lot and, when she slaps him, seems to be telling him to get in there and stand up for the truth. So, technically, there are three people who understand what is really happening at the end, aside from Mike and the people who rigged the fight (who clearly have all ducked out).

The crowd is not supposed to know why they were fighting. This isn't a movie about changing the world in that sense, enlightening the crowd. That couldn't happen. Mike tells Jerry (Joe Mantegna) "a cop died" and what's the response? "Everybody dies", now go make some money (paraphrase). Jerry represents what is underneath the crowd screaming for blood and spectacle. The crowd is a creation of the spectacle, of the fake. They cannot be changed, only denied. It is not about them, it is about the truth, honor, respect, etc.

Do you understand now?

This is one of Mamet's best, in my opinion. I haven't seen them all, unfortunatly, but I've seen most. It works on so many levels and it explores visual territory (martial arts) that I never thought Mamet was even into, let alone would make a film about. I also felt that dialogue and acting were exceptional and very engrossing. This is true of nearly all Mamet films, except maybe "The Spanish Prisoner", which was still an amazingly enjoyable film, but in "Redbelt" it is taken a step further, where it all seems so much more real in its understatement. It's hard for me to explain exactly what I mean, and I'm sure there are people who wouldn't agree with me on the acting and dialogue bit and that's fine. But the main part of this post is pretty spot on.

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Saw this weekend. Excellent film. If would like to see some of Mamet's other quality work I'd recommend "House of Games", "The Spanish Prisoner", and "The Winslow Boy". House of Games hooked me years ago. Still, the last few films he has done have been inadequate. Am glad to see him come out with such quality once again with "Redbelt".

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Just saw the film, and boy, am I glad I only paid $2.99 for it at Hastings. It wasn't a bad movie, but, it's definitely something I'll never waste 99 minutes ever watching again. And you know it's an even worse experience when someone has to post an explanation about the movie's plot.

Nonetheless, Chiwetel Ejiofor was really good, as he is in everything he's in, and Mamet's dialogue still retains its modern-day Shakespearean quality. But, for a good time, "Redbelt" just isn't it.

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You know your post made me think about when I saw the trailer. I thought it was going to be more of an action flick. I really like what I saw but it was still not what I expected.

It's not the how much. It's where the how much is at.

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Wow, are you really making a post explaining how you're top sh*t and we're all morons for not interpreting a movie in the same way that you did?

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A couple of people here do an excellent job of laying out this project's various dimensions. A couple of other people, too self-absorbed to open their minds to the possibility that movies can be more subtle than their imaginations, instead choose to belittle these excellent insights. For example, the statement: "I think you're all reading way too much into this plot, which is usually a sign that it was simply a weak one."

ThikSkin, your explanation of the film was right on the nose and is definitely not just one person's interpretation. We are all fortunate that you believed in this film and enjoyed it enough to appreciate its subtle context and to make it your own. As for the swine upon which these pearls were cast, nobody was calling them morons for not understanding the film. However, for their derision, as if to vent frustration at being upstaged by a more sophisticated soul, I would call them so.

David Mamet

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Are you really David Mamet?

My mistake...four coffins.
My Film Site:http://www.strikeaposefilms.com/

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Listen.

Good stories don't need to be defended or explained. "Various dimensions" is, really, just a corny buzz-phrase used to mask weakness in a plot. It's pseudo-intellectual *beep* nothing more.

It's the same thing as saying, "Well, it's not so much of a story as it is a character study." Or, "The premise is rich with layers that <insert ridiculous and vague synopsis here>."

It's little more than an excuse, if not a guarded admission and apology.

Basically, if you ever hear a writer spouting nonsense like this, you can pretty much assume that for all his/her explanation and indignant resolve, deep down, he/she knows the idea went off the rails somewhere along the way.

Trust me on this.

And, just to respond briefly to this completely incoherent rambling:

"As for the swine upon which these pearls were cast, nobody was calling them morons for not understanding the film. However, for their derision, as if to vent frustration at being upstaged by a more sophisticated soul, I would call them so."

Lord Christ. Good thing my seat reclines because that almost knocked me out of my chair! How many hours did you toil over that one? Such sage words of wisdom. Is it available on papyrus scroll?

Maybe you shouldn't be so self-absorbed, slappy. Try to open your mind to the possibility that this movie just missed and you're not as insightful as you think.

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If I were Mamet, I'd be insulted that you think I would really speak like this. How long did it take you to look up every other word in the thesaurus and pick a longer one?

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Wow, no. It's a post for all the morons who were expecting a kung-fu movie with little more to offer than action and a thin plot, getting something much better and not realizing it. From down there I only look like top sh*t.

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Look up "Genius" in the dictionary, it will say, "See Mamet."

Dwacon
http://blog.dwacon.com/

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Here here!! One of the best lines in a film written my David Mamet. "What one man can do another can do." That's what I like about Mamet. Red belt was the same way. Very positive in the face of despair.

It's not the how much. It's where the how much is at.

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Amen, brother. I loved this movie--the way of the warrior. And how can you not cherish a person like Mike Terry, someone not driven by materialism but by craft, duty, others? Someone who looks out for the other person and constantly asks "how can I help you?"

I'm not sure I know someone like this, in this age of Madoff and banks that claim the right to screw anyone they can.

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I appreciate the insights about this film. I enjoyed the movie for many reasons, but did not connect with some of the themes presented in this thread. I almost thought that some of the circumstances Mike Terry had been put through may have been contrived as a way to test him for the red belt, which he received at the end of the film. The person who gave him the red belt knew what it would take to get him to fight in the contest and wanted to see whether Mike would actually go through with it or not. In the end, Mike participated, but did so under his own terms. All of his actions were honorable, hence he earned the red belt. A few loopholes in this theory; namely the suicide was something that wasn't forseen by the people who set the circumstances in motion. I am not sure if this theory is correct or not...probably not; the OP's original post seems pretty accurate about Hollywood.

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Good observation but i think even you dont get it...there is not alot to get really but this is the magic of the director. First of, you have to be a fan David Mamet to know how he works. The minute the first scene comes on, you are on the leery of something wicked to come. David is a brown belt JuJitsuwho is also competes (a contrast to his character's opinion/flaw that competition takes away your skills). Hollywood may seems to be the beast but the fact is David doesnt think this way about his movie...quite sympathetic really. Take the time to study his works, David's. It is simply an entity of evil in any of David's films: mob, con men, law enforcers...etc. Chet is not as decent as you think, just another smarmy boozer/womanizer who is ready to score. And this is another score. Ask Chet's wife and her fake phone numbers.

At the end he finally see the flaw in his sheltered way that THERE is always an escape, unconditionally, as is taught by his newest pupil who deserved the samurai belt. The belt was not tossed away. She saved him as Terry had saved the Japanese fighter's moral.

The dialogure and the shots are all of David's genius: dry, hard, gritty and clean. There is always a con. Even the movie is a con. but a good one.s

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