MovieChat Forums > The Marvels (2023) Discussion > MY ideas on how to save Marvel/MCU

MY ideas on how to save Marvel/MCU

posted 6 months ago by bozo_500 (12344)
37 replies | jump to latest

-Cancel all MCU related stream shows . Focus purely on movies (max 3 a year, preferably 2. Some years even 1!)

-Don't bother doing MCU XMen, simply bring in the Foxverse 'First Class' cast (maybe they already doing this idk)

-Dump Captain America BNW and Thunderbolts on D+ as a stream movies (otherwise more bombs)

-Cancel 'Avengers Kang Dynasty.' Move 'Avengers Secret Wars' to 2026. (to deal with the Kang actor problem, but also to get to the movie everyone wants to see)

-Cast Tom Cruise as the new Iron Man (from alternate universe, leave RDJ version dead), bring back Chris Evans as Cap America (via time travel), maybe bring back ScarJo as Black Widow (due to magic infinity stone bs), these guys would be (re)introduced in SW and headline any new Avengers movies along with the others (Hemsworth, Ruffalo, Holland, Cumberbatch, Rudd, Larson, Reynolds, Jackman, Fassbender, McAvoy etc)

-Cancel 'Blade' reboot. greenlight 'Blade IV' with Wesley Snipes

-Cancel 4th Spiderman with Tom Holland. greenlight 'Spiderman 4' with Raimi/Maguire.

-Greenlight a new Incredible Hulk movie (more the the vein of the TV series and the 2008 movie, no 'professor hulk' bs) and make plans for a Spiderman (Tom Holland) vs Hulk movie.

-Venom vs Spiderman (Tom Holland)

[–] Heretic (304) 6 months ago

X Men First Class came out like 13 years ago. The cast is going to be too old to make it work and it's been too long since that film came out to still be relevant.

And Blade Trinity came out so long ago that I have it on VHS. There is no way that 20 years later Wesley Snipes can still play that role. He was 40 at the time which was already pushing it.

But yeah, you touch on the problem of Marvel when you say just bring them back "due to infinity stones bs"...now that there's a multiverse and time travel, nothing in the Universe matters because everything bad that happens just gets undone later.

[–] Kowalski (60361) 6 months ago

I AGREE TO SOME EXTENT...BUT IF IT STAYS UNDONE THEN IT STILL MATTERS....PLUS THING LIKE IRON MAN'S SACRIFICE MATTERED AT THE TIME AND YEARS AFTER...EVEN IF THEY DO PLAY WITH IT...I DON'T THINK THEY WILL BY THE WAY.

[–] bozo_500 (12344) 6 months ago

If anything McAvoy and Fassbender are the correct age to portray Professor X/Magneto (they always felt abit too young to be X Men leaders) but if they recast for MCU-verse they'd obviously get actors of similar age probably even older.

A Blade 4 would be fine as 'legacy sequels' are all the rage now and simply have Snipes in close ups no need for much martial arts/fights. (but obviously they doing this reboot)

The 'multiverse timetravel bs' could be used easily to get the (correct/none alt universe) versions of Evans' Cap and maybe ScarJo's BW back but I'd leave RDJs version dead so not to cheapen the iconic Endgame sacrifice. But you'd obviously need a new Iron Man (from an alt universe) to lead the new Avengers and they should be a big deal/A list so get Cruise who was originally attached to the role and will be no doubt looking for a new franchise to join now Mission is ending

[–] Heretic (304) 6 months ago

They actually are bringing back Robert Downey Jr as Iron Man. So yes, they are cheapening it.

In fact, I didn't like Endgame because it canceled out the plot of Infinity War which is a far superior film.

When I show my kids these films, I'm going to pretend that Infinity Wars is the last one (we never see that Spiderman again anyways) and that Thanos won because sometimes life isn't fair. But, he at least had a battle plan, unlike all the Avengers who were running around chaotically with the exception of Thor who had the foresight to get a good weapon that almost worked.

[–] Kowalski (60361) 6 months ago

😐

[–] fc31 (4660) 6 months ago

[deleted]

[–] Kowalski (60361) 6 months ago

LMAO...YOUR IDEA IS CANCELLING EVERYTHING NEW AND RESURRECTING THE PAST TO BLEED RERUN DOLLARS?...WEIRD.

[–] bozo_500 (12344) 6 months ago

IKR, its the reverse of Kylo Ren let the past die 😄

[–] SoCrates (868) 6 months ago

Go back to the drawing board and remember what got you here.

You started this whole thing with a brilliant casting choice in RDJ. He's charismatic, likeable, but also arrogant and flawed. You want to spend time with him and follow his story. Likewise, you continued to make really good casting and directing decisions. The Russos took this franchise to heights no one thought possible.

After "End Game", you just completely fell apart and forgot what got you to the top of the mountain. Your choices of casting, writers, and directors has been a dumpster fire. You pissed off the people doing your CGI, and now it's very sub par. Kevin Feige, and his underlings, could not have handled this post-"End Game" era any worse than they did. You turned a machine that was literally printing money into a giant flop factory.

[–] WhereIsRent (1023) 6 months ago

I say bring back the writers of the Russo Brothers films; Christopher Marcus and Stephen McFeely. Those guys understood the characters and how to write films with multiple characters whilst telling a compelling story. Why Marvel Studios aren't throwing money at them to come back and write screenplays for them is baffling.

Looking at what did well in Phase 4 I'd say that Spider-Man and Doctor Strange are the two most popular characters the MCU currently has, then probably Thor so get some good screenplays for those sequels. Get good screenplays for Blade, Fantastic Four and X-Men. With the Disney + stuff just focus on miniseries for Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage and Iron Fist and build up to The Defenders (the Netflix Defenders series was such a letdown.)

The biggest problem Marvel Studios have faced after Endgame is crappy screenplays. The Marvels is the worst screenplay I've seen from the studio yet, it's somehow worse than the screenplay for Thor: Love and Thunder.

[–] HarlemEagle42 (16295) 6 months ago

This sums it up nicely. Just hire better writers instead of the ones who maybe worked on 'RICK & MORTY'. Though from what I heard, even that guy got fired from 'Kang Dynasty'.

[–] WhereIsRent (1023) 6 months ago

Exactly. The Ant-Man 3 screenplay was awful and the film should have never had Kang in except for maybe a mid-credit scene.

What about getting the writers of Thor: Ragnarok back? That movie was a great blend of action, comedy and excitement for a superhero movie and it also had a great villain to top it off.

The Marvels has some good action scenes and some jokes but the story just isn’t exciting at all and the villain is as bland as they come for a superhero film.

[–] HarlemEagle42 (16295) 6 months ago

Right? People ringing the doomsday bells saying the end is nigh. But this is a relatively simple fix if they just hire better writers, and perhaps dial back on the Disney+ shows.

[–] FilmBuff (6732) 6 months ago

Tom Cruise is far too old to be Iron Man.

Tom Holland is the best Spider-Man we've seen, and the three Spider-Man films have been among the highlights of the MCU. Maguire, like Cruise, is far, far too old to play Spider-Man. He'd be in his 50s by the time they shot the movie.

I don't think Marvel has the rights to a Hulk movie. At least, that was why they weren't making one previously, and instead gave him a big role in Thor:Ragnarok.

Wesley Snipes is in his 60s. Another much too old actor.

I think the MCU is still on the right track. The real issue is that people aren't going to the movies as often as before, but that's all films, not just MCU films. I think moving forward, studios will focus on streaming content, and release just a small number of big event blockbuster pictures each year. For the MCU I think that might mean a lot of Disney+ films and short serials, building up to a big movie each year.

I'd make Fantastic Four, Spider-Man, and the X-Men the focus moving forward, and keep building towards the big showdown with Kang. From there lead into the Secret Wars as planned.

[–] bozo_500 (12344) 6 months ago

Cruise is same age range as RDJ only 3 years older (and there's talk about him returning). Iron Man as head of Avengers should be like an elder wise guy

Everyone seems abit Tom Holland out now, give his SM a break for a few years (maybe until my Spiderman v Hulk movie). bring back Maguire for much anticipated 4th Raimi movie that he never got to do (as a kind of Marvel 'Elseworlds' thing) that would probably break $2b.

[–] alienzen (1929) 6 months ago

why would you recast iron Man with an older actor, wnen you could just cast RDJ?

[–] bozo_500 (12344) 6 months ago

Bc it would cheapen RDJ dying in EG

[–] alienzen (1929) 6 months ago

But recasting Iron Man wouldn't....what??

[–] WhereIsRent (1023) 6 months ago

Agreed. Also Tom Holland's Spider-Man is in a place where fans are excited for what comes next, especially now that the Venom symbiote is in the MCU. You put Venom in an MCU Spider-Man film and it'll set the box office on fire.

Also yeah going to the cinema is way down from what it was back in 2019, in fact only two films with a budget of over $200 million have managed to be profitable this year and they are Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 and Fast X.

[–] bozo_500 (12344) 6 months ago

Venom vs Spiderman is something I forgot about! I shall add that in my OP

[–] alienzen (1929) 6 months ago

I think the MCU is still on the right track

You are probably the only person on the planet who thinks that. Of the 9 movies released since phase 3, 6 are the lowest rated MCU movies of all times (except HUlk). The highest rated one is a Sony moive, the next highest is Guardians of the Galaxy 3. James Gunn is leaving the MCU and that was his swan song, so both those movies are exceptions to the rule. The other movie was Shangh Chi, which I thought was awful, but somehow had the Force Awakens effect where everyone was saying it was good at the time. The box office for shangh chi was awful though. Maybe only the die hards saw it.

[–] bozo_500 (12344) 6 months ago

IKR, the MCU is currently in TURMOIL, my ideas are like a 3 year emergency plan (mainly focusing on nostalgia legacy stuff) to try to get back on top until they can figure out WTF to do next!

[–] FilmBuff (6732) 6 months ago

That's what it feels like, that you want to bring back things from the past, like Tobey Maguire and Sam Raimi, Iron Man, etc., and cast old men like Tom Cruise as superheroes, when Marvel should be forward-thinking and building the next stars. Realize that Downey, Evans, Hemsworth and the rest weren't stars before Marvel, and barely anyone knew who Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, and the rest were before the films came out. Those were Marvel's C-Listers at the time.

The Hollywood way lately has been to milk the past for all it can produce, but I think that's part of what got us where we are now. I'd much rather see Marvel focus on making great movies, and trust that they can turn young actors into stars through those movies rather than drag out the same tired old corpses again for yet another rehash.

[–] alienzen (1929) 6 months ago

In order for something to qualify as nostalgia, you need at least a 10 year gap.

[–] bozo_500 (12344) 6 months ago

well Blade 3 was 2004. Spiderman 3 was 2007. XMen First Class 2011 so lots of nostalgia bait in my ideas :)

[–] FilmBuff (6732) 6 months ago

Are you suggesting the Spider-Man movie is a Sony film? Sony's only role in the film was to cash the check from Marvel that allowed the character to be in an MCU film.

That aside, the point I'm making is that despite audience interest on the wan post-Endgame, and post-Covid, I think Marvel has the right idea-- move forward and tell new stories with new characters-- rather than try to rehash the past, as the O.P. is suggesting.

The original batch of films captured the zeitgeist of their era, but something like that always has a shelf life. If you expect every MCU film to be an event forever, and fill theaters each time out, you are setting yourself up for disappointment. That may never be the case again, and it has nothing to do with the quality of the films. I'd argue that the best films each year are rarely, if ever, the ones that sell the most tickets, for audiences are fickle, and flock to what they are told to flock to. For awhile that was the MCU, now it's not. Add to that the post-Covid plummet in theater-going and it becomes clear that we're in uncharted territory.

From the get-go, Marvel has made great movies starring lesser-known actors playing superheroes the general populace was unaware existed, and had great success doing so. I think they should keep on doing what they're doing rather than pander to audiences. Changes in audience viewing patterns will dictate the finances and pace at which movies are made, and it may be that more streaming content needs to be released, with only one cinema release per year. Time will tell, but it's clear that the films aren't the problem, it's a need to adapt to change.

[–] fc31 (4660) 6 months ago

Bean counters were running the show at Disney, and now at Marvel.

Stream shows are meant to increase Disney+ subscribers, it does not mean they are necessary. The same reason Star wars franchise has so many TV series, all for the new streaming platform.

So there is no way they are going to cancel streaming shows, I suspect there will be more if anything.

[–] FilmBuff (6732) 6 months ago

I think there has to be a switch to more streamed content, because that's what the public wants. I wish it weren't the case, but it's clear that post-Covid there has been a massive change in the way audiences consume films. People want to stay at home and watch on their TV. Films that would have packed theaters 4 years ago are now losing money at the box office.

I imagine that moving forward, most of the MCU will be streamed on Disney+, with one big "event" film in the theaters each year. If the MCU were launching today, I think the plan would be to stream the Iron Man, Thor, Hulk, and Captain America films, and then release the Avengers in theaters. There seems no other way to survive moving forward.

[–] fc31 (4660) 6 months ago

Good organic streaming content, yes, but Disney is clearly doing as much as possible as a marketing campaign to promote Disney+ platform, what they did not count on or just did not care is that it is hurting the franchises they bought, the franchises a great deal of people loved. Who cares about what fans think? If they cared at all they would not have had F rated shows like this one, hiring people basing on gender politics instead of merits.

They are saturating the market with so many spin offs, in a sense they are materialising the return of their investments as quickly as possible, when those franchises are run to the ground they will just reboot.

It makes business sense, that is why I was saying they were run by bean counters.

[–] TandyMan (10429) 6 months ago

I don't think think the MCU can be saved cause it never actually existed. It was always the RDJ/Evans/Hemsworth show. Everything else was just coasting on the coattails of these movie stars.

[–] mitzibishi (1623) 6 months ago

I'm not a massive comic book guy, but I keep hearing people talk about Dr. Doom.

Sounds interesting, start at ground level Doom then expand from there as an unstopable force.

[–] bozo_500 (12344) 6 months ago

well hed be the villain for the new Fantastic 4 film so evantually hed be someone all the Avengers take on in a future film

[–] mitzibishi (1623) 6 months ago

It's a name people know, and he's supposed to be pretty powerful, smart and badass.

It's a no brainer, but we know the people at Disney have mush for brains.

Power creep that guy up over multiple films from grass roots, global threat, intergalactic threat.

Start with grass roots heroes, power creep them up with experience, skill, tools, and slowly introduce more powerful heroes on top to counter Doom (but not defeat him, just scupper his plans)

[–] bozo_500 (12344) 6 months ago

They going after Mads for Doom so thats a good start

[–] mitzibishi (1623) 6 months ago

It is as he's a competent actor. Hollywood have no imagination though, its either Mads Mikelson or Ben Mendelson as the bad guy.

Poor guy came to Hollywood as a good actor, gets shoehorned into every bad guy role.

Does Dr. Doom have charisma because one downfall Mads Mikelson has is that he lacks star power and charisma, and are people not tired of seeing the same guy as bad guy over and over?

I think they should pick somebody else and put Mads in a supporting role elsewhere.

[–] Kowalski (60361) 6 months ago

🤣

[–] fc31 (4660) 6 months ago

are people not tired of seeing the same guy as bad guy over and over?

I am mostly ok with that, but not when he already played the bad guy in the same franchise, as in Dr Strange.