MovieChat Forums > Låt den rätte komma in (2008) Discussion > Glimpsing Eli's Groin

Glimpsing Eli's Groin

posted 11 years ago by awsmith
64 replies | jump to latest

There's been a fair amount of commentary about Alfredson's translation of Eli's gender ambiguity in the novel into the half-second glimpse of Eli's scarred groin. Some viewers apparently were not even sure what they were seeing, or believed that they were seeing normal female anatomy. (A dummy was used to film this part.) In the novel, dialogue between Oskar and Eli makes it fairly clear that Eli is anxious for Oskar to know that he's not really a girl, and what that means; he finally takes an opportunity after showering in Oskar's apartment to drop his bath towel and reveal himself to Oskar. Eli jokes about it in response to a Oskar's question, but this exchange then segues into Eli showing Oskar his castration through the medium of a kiss.

If you were directing LTROI, would you have handled this aspect of the story any differently? Potential choices could include:

- dropping the whole thing entirely, and let the audience believe that Eli's statements about "not being a girl" mean that she's not really human

- including further dialogue between the characters about Eli's condition to make the fact of the castration clear

- including some version of the flashback scene

Or, are you okay with the film as it is?

Personally, I am satisfied with how the thing was handled. Placing too much emphasis on it could have proved a too distracting for American audiences, and even seeing the half-second shot was enough to upset some. And I am not sure whether including more of Eli's backstory would have made the film any better.

Carve every word before you let it fall. - Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.

[–] VirtualMark 10 years ago

Sorry, but what are you guys talking about? The character is played by a girl and appears as a girl in the film. Are you saying that it's supposed to be a boy? When she said "I'm not a girl", I assumed that she meant that she's a vampire, not human etc. Not that she's a boy with the penis removed. That's not made clear at all in the movie.

[–] jidici 10 years ago

This is the way I felt when seeing it and still feel that way. However, (book spoiler) in the book Eli was born a boy.

[–] VirtualMark 10 years ago

Yeah that's not made clear at all in the movie. And I've seen "Let Me In" too, there wasn't a hint of it in that either.

I must have missed the groin shot in this movie, I definitely don't remember seeing it. Oh well, still a good film. I don't get why they'd need to change the gender, it doesn't really add anything to the plot.

[–] Jameron 10 years ago

The screenwriter for Let The Right One In is John Ajvide Lindqvist, the author of the book. He and Tomas Alfredson, the director, planned to have the castration scene in the film because Oskar discovering that Eli was in fact Elias, a boy, would be another hurdle for him to navigate in order to be able to accept Eli for he is. The more problems surmounted, the more accepting the love. Being accepted for what you are instead of what other people make you is one of the main ideas of the book.

However, Tomas didn't want to use CGI and he could hardly castrate Lina on film, so they planned to castrate a pig due to the similarity of the skin. But when the time came Tomas couldn't do it as the reality hit him that the pig would have to die in order to make a few seconds of film and he thought that was just wrong. So the castration scene got dropped and instead they settled for a nod to the truth contained within the book. That scene didn't detract from the film if you hadn't read the book but it added lots if you were in the know.

In Let Me In, Abby was born a girl.

If you read books, I urge you to read this one. Even though you have been spoiled on the reveal about Eli there are plenty more challenges left.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e3tGxnFKfE

http://tinyurl.com/LTROI-story

[–] thomas-begen 10 years ago

"Eli jokes about it in response to a Oskar's question, but this exchange then segues into Eli showing Oskar his castration through the medium of a kiss. "

I'll have to rewatch it to catch what joke you are speaking of. In any case, Eli's parts look feminine to me. I don't know what kind of vaginas don't look like the one on the dummy. Whilte I still agree that gender ambiguity is central to the story, it's hard for me to picture Eli as a boy, perhaps because Eli is played by a girl.

[–] drakkar 10 years ago

I don't know what kind of vaginas don't look like the one on the dummy.

It is a castration/neutering scar there, but the shot is short and easy to miss if you don't pay attention.

Agreed, Eli being played by a girl makes it difficult to view him as a boy. Different in the book, here it is no doubt.

In Cod we trust.

[–] awsmith 10 years ago

My understanding is that what we see in the film is a product of novel author and screenwriter Lindqvist's interest in gender ambiguity and his desire to have Eli be an asexual being in the form of a castrated boy, and Alfredson's decision to cast Lina Leandersson. As others have said, it is a stretch to conclude that Leandersson is anything other than a girl, although Alfredson tried to make her more masculine by dubbing the voice of an older female actor with a lower voice (Elif Ceylan). I think Alfredson was also wary of sidetracking the story into gay themes. He said in an August 2009 interview, "it was a conscious decision [to keep Eli feminine from Oskar’s POV] – if we had emphasized this fact it would easily have been the main topic, a sort of 'young gay love' theme. To me, Eli is androgynous, and a non-sexual creature. We cast both girls and boys for the part and I was obviously looking for someone like Lina, who gave a stunning performance.”

Carve every word before you let it fall. - Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.

[–] drakkar 10 years ago

"it was a conscious decision [to keep Eli feminine from Oskar’s POV] – if we had emphasized this fact it would easily have been the main topic, a sort of 'young gay love' theme. To me, Eli is androgynous, and a non-sexual creature. We cast both girls and boys for the part and I was obviously looking for someone like Lina, who gave a stunning performance.”

Oskar is the main reason Eli is viewed as a girl in the novel, he is never referred to as a girl in the narrative, other characteristics are mixed and indecisive. Eli even has a boyish behaviour, and repeatedly says he isn't a girl, and we think we know the reason! :). The film was mainly seen from Oskar's POV, hence the girl aspect was emphasised further.

TA planned a scene with close up shot from the castration of Eli (Be me a little), however, when he was told it involved cutting in a sedated, pig, he called it off due to principal reasons of not wanting to harm a living animal.

In Cod we trust.

[–] jeanblackqueen 10 years ago

eli is a castrated boy

the question is WHY was he castrated

[–] Jameron 10 years ago

"the question is WHY was he castrated" - jeanblackqueen

I urge you to read the novel, the answer is in there.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e3tGxnFKfE

http://tinyurl.com/LTROI-story

[–] Capt-Cupcake 9 years ago

The crotch shot didn't work. I saw the movie and just thought that her vag was all sewed up and thought, "That's weird". It wasn't until I read the novel that I understood what that was all about.

In my opinion, Matt Reeves handled this much better in let Me In by simply dropping it. It works on the page, but not on film.

[–] dongregg-953-168798 9 years ago

It works on the page, but not on film.

Agreed. Other misses: Showing an aged Eli in the basement and in the "Be me a little" scene might have indicated that she has been around a long time, but the scenes raised an issue in my mind: Is that the way Eli really looks? Is the young Eli just a mask that she projects?

Sorry about the pronouns. The crotch shot was too brief to show me that Eli is not a girl, but it was long enough to show me that she is not a boy.

[–] Jameron 9 years ago

"I saw the movie and just thought that her vag was all sewed up..." - Capt-Cupcake

The scar wasn't where a "vag" would be located, unless by "vag" you mean vulva. Plus, the scar was pretty much horizontal, the only features in that area that can be "sewed up" are vertical.

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- - - - - - - - - - -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e3tGxnFKfE

http://tinyurl.com/LTROI-story

[–] gss2 9 years ago

I thought it was in extremely bad taste and I turned the film off shortly after that scene. I don't want to see a film about gender ambiguity which involves young boys. Like the Birdman of Alcatraz or Henry Darger's artwork, people ignore the paedophilic elephant in the room and look for some hidden, innocent soul at the core that really doesn't exist. I don't recommend this film to anyone, in fact. Watch the American version where it is a boy and a girl and actually kind of cute. That film is not pandering to some kind of (wisely) forbidden fetish.

[–] Jameron 9 years ago

"I thought it was in extremely bad taste and I turned the film off shortly after that scene. I don't want to see a film about gender ambiguity which involves young boys. Like the Birdman of Alcatraz or Henry Darger's artwork, people ignore the paedophilic elephant in the room and look for some hidden, innocent soul at the core that really doesn't exist. I don't recommend this film to anyone, in fact. Watch the American version where it is a boy and a girl and actually kind of cute. That film is not pandering to some kind of (wisely) forbidden fetish." - gss2

Great bait mate.

.

- - - - - - - - - - -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e3tGxnFKfE

http://tinyurl.com/LTROI-story

[–] gss2 9 years ago

Honestly, it's how I feel.

[–] jamespenson 9 years ago

I agree, awsmith. After reading the book, I think they dealt with this pretty well, although at first I wasn't sure I was seeing a scar. It's such a brief shot, and "she" is a prepubescent, so I thought perhaps it was supposed to be Oskar seeing normal adolescent female development for the first time. Having never seen a 12 year old castrated male, I guess I had no clue that that's what I was supposed to be seeing. I confess that it wasn't until the second viewing that I picked up on the fact that when she told Oskar that she wasn't a girl, she meant it! (Originally thought she simply meant she wasn't human.) I do with that the movie had shown some of the flashback, but perhaps the director did not want it to be obvious that Eli was a castrati. After all, the author was involved in the movie.
There were several elements of the book that just wouldn't have made for a good movie. The much stronger pedophile element for one. It was very clear in the book that Eli could fly, as well, but they (thankfully) stayed away from this in the film, much as they did her/his gender. In fact, it wasn't until I watched the movie with the sound WAY up that I started catching some of this stuff.

banjoist123

[–] A_Race_Car_in_the_Red 8 years ago

I would have left that subplot out of the film altogether. I'm sure that in the book (which I have not read) the castration bears some importance to either the plot or Eli's character, but as it was, it felt completely extraneous to the film's narrative, serving only to confuse (me).

"If the rule you followed brought you to this, of what use was the rule?"

[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] gymmy75 8 years ago

I would have left that subplot out of the film altogether.

I'm not even sure I would consider it a subplot. I see it as more of an Easter Egg for those who read (or later read) the source material. The novel was a bestseller in Sweden, so perhaps it was decided that this aspect of Eli could not be totally ignored and had to be acknowledged to some degree. If the film was made today, I wonder if the filmmakers would have been more forthcoming concerning Eli's gender.

If you haven't read the book and can still figure it out, great. The story can still be enjoyed without this knowledge. I'm not surprised that so many film-only viewers don't catch the meaning of that scene, and I don't think they should have been expected to do so.