MovieChat Forums > Albert Nobbs (2012) Discussion > Why did Albert need a woman to run the s...

Why did Albert need a woman to run the shop?


I understand she was lonely. But as far as the business idea, why not just take the money, buy a shop, and run it alone? Why did she have to have a wife to do that? If she felt she HAD to have a shop-girl, she could hire someone. Why did she think it had to all depend on marrying that girl?

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I think its because Albert fantasized about Mr Page's life. I dont think Albert talked to the guests about their personal relationships; as I recall Albert looked intently on those who were dancing at the ball. Maybe he was living vicariously through those around him
He wasnt experienced at all; it seemed he knew nothing about love or at least the process of how to get there.
So, once Mr Page told him of his life, and once Albert saw it, he wanted it. Not sure if Helen was his main desire or if the seed was planted by Mr Page.
Since Cathleen Page ran the sewing shop, Helen would help run the Tobacco shop

"You're watching too much Sopranos, when you give your kids their allowance in envelopes"

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You hit the nail on the head.

Also, because Hubert Page mentioned how he thought Helen was attractive - and that if Cathleen should leave him for America, she (Hubert) would try his luck with Helen. I don't think Albert fully understood that Hubert was giving Cathleen a hard time, but Albert rather made the connection that Hubert thinks Helen would make a good wife. Since Hubert has this lifestyle "figured out", Albert should go after Helen because Hubert would.

Albert never completely understood that Hubert and Cathleen were both lesbians actively seeking and choosing their lifestyle; he seemed to think that Hubert had Cathleen tricked or that she sprung her true sex on Cathleen after the wedding. As Albert's relationship with Helen "progresses," Albert must work out these questions.

But you are right - Albert was trying to make a "decent" life for himself. Albert associated the traditional male/female relationship with disgust and danger (because of what happened as a child.) And as we know, Albert does not see himself as a woman any way besides physically. When Hubert asks Albert what "her" real name is, he still replies "Albert." Though we don't know exactly how old he is, we do know that he has been living as a man since he was 14-years-old. He has never gone through the awkward "dating" process that both boys and girls go through during adolescents and the only sexual experience Albert has experienced is one of violence. He only knows how to act as a man through how his observations of how other men and women behave. He observes the confidence Hubert exudes and the happiness of their married life and he sees that he may be able to achieve happiness too.

We have to constantly remind ourselves as we watch Albert and Hubert that these are women living lies that today's homosexuals are not forced to live (hopefully.) I wonder if we are so far removed now from the idea of "being in the closet" that it is not a questions of if one is ALLOWED to come out of the closet but rather WHEN, that we have a difficult time understanding why Albert behaves the way he does.

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Albert was in love with her. It's pretty obvious.

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Well, I don't think she was in love with the blonde in a traditional sense. Albert isn't a lesbian. Very confused about how human relationships of ALL sorts work, though.

Women were very much catagorised as a "helpmeet" in that era. Maybe Albert thought that to live a life as a man, having some little woman at his side backing him up was part of the picture. It basically was.

I will say I think the film's failure is that it doesn't make Albert's personality and issues clearer. It was only after listening to the DVD commentary by Glenn Close that I got more of where she was trying to go with the character. As I was watching it, I was thinking, "Okay....so Albert is....? What, exactly?"

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The "man," "Albert," was "in love" with Helen.

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<< The "man," "Albert," was "in love" with Helen. >>

"Kind of"

: )

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That's exactly what I meant, actually

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It was a hard story for me to follow....because I couldn't quite get where the characters stood on things half the time. For instance, when Hugh doesn't tell Albert about her own situation in their first bedroom scene, it caused me later to think, "Uh...Wha? If Hugh...."

Apparently, in the source material, Hugh does tell Albert about her own life right away when she grasps what's going on...but they thought it created some suspense to drag this out in the movie. BUT WHY WOULD SOMEONE???

I like the review that appeared in the New Yorker:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The title role in Albert Nobbs goes to Glenn Close, who played it Off Broadway thirty years ago and has striven ever since to bring it to the screen. She co-wrote and co-produced the film, and is seldom out of our sight. But what do we see? Albert is a woman dressed as a man, in the Ireland of the late eighteen-hundreds, yet what Close serves up is neither man nor woman, flesh nor fowl, but a strange hieratic hybrid of no discernible identity. She walks as though freshly risen from the dead, patrolling the streets and corridors in a stiffened glide, with those dark, deep-sunk eyes of hers staring hard ahead. Albert is a waiter in an upmarket Dublin hotel, and the uniform adds starch to her otherworldliness: grief-black suit and tie, snowy shirt, and, for outdoors, a rolled umbrella and an ill-fitting bowler hat. What you feel, watching Close, is not that you are watching gender being bent into new, absorbing shapes but that you might as well have stayed home and leafed through a book on Magritte.

The hotel is run by Mrs. Baker (Pauline Collins), aflutter with aspirational cooing, while a colorful cast, including Brendan Gleeson and Brenda Fricker, portrays the other residents. Gleeson is as reliably rooted as ever, depicting a boozy and bearded quack named Holloran, who dines with the guests but, when the fancy moves him, breakfasts with the domestics, one of whom, moreover, he gorges on in bed. Joyce would have known the type.

Throughout the movie, too much time and fuss are expended on a dull romance between a roseate maid (Mia Wasikowska) and a handyman (Aaron Johnson), although the director, Rodrigo Garcia, may have been forced in this direction simply because he could not find enough to do with his central character. Albert's vision of quitting the hotel and opening a tobacconist's shop, for example, is delivered not once but on repeated occasions as an actual vision, robed in a golden glow, and the thoughts that float across her, or his (or, if we are honest, its) mind are muttered out loud, in soliloquy. While formulating an unlikely plan, for instance, that she will propose to the maid, Albert stops and asks, with nobody in earshot, "Should I tell her before we are married or save it for the wedding night?"

Such awkwardness is, to an extent, inevitable; it shows Close and her collaborators bumping into the age-old conundrum of how best to represent interior monologue onscreen. The film is adapted from a short story by George Moore, which appeared in a 1927 volume called Celibate Lives. There Albert describes herself as a "perhapser," but the problem with such indecision, as voiced by Close, is that it makes Albert sound like a simpleton, regardless of the agonies that may be imposed upon society by the need for sexual choice. That is why Albert Nobbs awakes so bracingly whenever Janet McTeer marches into view. She plays Hubert Page, a housepainter who comes to redecorate the hotel and has to share a bed with Albert. By a merry coincidence, Hubert, too, turns out to be a woman underneath, baring an unmistakable and frankly regal bosom to make her point.

It says much for McTeer that the obvious question "What are the chances of two cross-dressers meeting trouser to trouser in late-nineteenth-century Dublin?" hardly enters our minds. Stately and swaggering, taller than most of the men, and sporting the dark forelock of the natural rake, McTeer, who has been Oscar-nominated for best supporting actress, carries conviction as easily as she wears her breeches and corduroy jacket, transforming Hubert's rangy physical confidence into a larger embrace of life's amusements and kicks. She is no perhapser but a thoroughgoing yes-woman, like Molly Bloom. The sad thing is that, from the opening shot of a guttering flame, Albert Nobbs prefers to take its cue (timorous, subdued, and reluctant to risk a smile) from the title character. Imagine a different film on a similar theme, with Hubert moved to center stage and Garcia replaced by Pedro Almodovar, for whom cross-dressers in a Catholic country would be meat and drink. Poor Albert could then retreat into the shadows, where he so evidently belongs, emerging only to pour the wine and clear away the feast.

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Wow, the use of "it" to describe the Albert character in this review is repulsive. I'm in complete disbelief that a major publication would allow that. I know people often have hard time with pronouns for trans people (a tip: refer to them as the gender the present themselves as—no exceptions); even if it's confusing, the only reason to resort to calling a human being "it" is to show yourself as a hateful bigot.

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Wow, the use of "it" to describe the Albert character in this review is repulsive.


The title role in Albert Nobbs goes to Glenn Close, who played it Off Broadway thirty years ago and has striven ever since to bring it to the screen.


If you're referring to the above sentence, the word "it" was used in place of the words "the role". NOT as a non-gender reference! Sheesh!

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That's not what I was referring to, obviously. Also, if you check the post dates you'll see that theirs was edited a week after I made my reply. Save your rude eye-rolling for some other situation, preferably one you haven't misread.

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I wondered the same thing myself, since he was obviously capable of passing himself off as a man, he could have easily run the store by himself, or once having taken ownership, gone back to being a female.

It was difficult to be a female back then, but certainly not illegal.

Baker had her hotel.

Nobbs could have easily had her own little shop.

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Helen, that was my Q, too.
Was Albert Nobbs becoming a lesbian? Did she really start falling for Helen Dawes? I was wondering that.
How about Hubert Page? was she a lesbian? and did she live with Cathleen as a lesbian couple?

I mean it's all strange, because it was all taboo at the time I guess.

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I never got any impression of lesbianism in the movie at all. Even Mr. & Mrs Page seemed to be best friends. It was mostly how these ladies survived in those times, posing as men.

Maybe it was the normal thing to have a shop girl in those shops?

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Well, when I saw it I got the definite impression that Mr. and Mrs. Page loved each other romantically. Mr. Page seemed to be a lesbian to me, in the way she described Helen Dawes and afterwards how she described her relationship with Mrs. Page. "She was my world" and that overall despair seemed a bit misplaced for just a friend, even a best friend. Albert, on the other hand, I really was unable to figure out entirely. She seemed excited by the idea of having a wife, but who knows if that was because she actually liked women, or just wanted to share her life with someone. Anyone. Since she gave the same offer to Page.

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She didn't need her. She had been saving her money to have a shop the whole movie, it never occurred to her that she could ever have another person in her life like that until she met Mr. Page and learned it was possible. Then the idea of living a real life with another person became more important to her than the shop itself. She decided on Helen because Mr. Page had thought Helen was pretty and she wanted to be like Mr. Page. She wasn't in love with Helen. She was in love with her dream of a shop and a companion to share things with after 30 years of having no one, out of necessity.

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You made some very good points and I felt the same way. The only thing I could think was that she wanted the same thing that Mr. Paige had - companionship and support. He/she should have known that that girl was trouble. Everybody could see that. I could have understood it if they had had a real friendship (Albert and Helen) but maybe he just didn't know how to have friends.



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Albert needed a woman, because he was lonely, and wanted, needed someone to share his life. I use the pronoun "he" even though he was technically a woman, because Albert's identity appeared to be decidedly male. We saw when he and Hubert were wearing the dresses how awkward they both seemed. If anything, they looked MORE male when disguised as women. It didn't matter that he was asexual. Gender identification and sexuality are two different things. A guy might joke about being a lesbian trapped inside a man's body, but in truth an XY individual who is attracted to women can still identify as a woman, even going so far as to get a sex change to physically become a woman loving woman. Most gay men identify strongly as men, though they are not attracted to women. Likewise, just because Albert identified as male doesn't mean he had to feel physical attraction to women. Asexuality may not be a common phenomenon, but it certainly exists, and asexual people can still crave human closeness just as much as anyone else.

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I think part of Albert's wanting Helen was nothing to do with romantic feelings towards her (I can't see him as a lesbian). I think it was mostly to do with the fact that although he was living as a man, Albert wasn't fully 'connected' to the man he thought he should be. He always seems to be striving to 'be a better man', seemed to be wanting things that it would be 'normal' for men of the victorian age to want.


A big clue to that was Albert's wanting to open a tobaconnists even though he doesn't even smoke nor have any actual interest in tobacco! It's like he's trying to connect to how a man should feel and want rather than what he wants. Helen, I think, is just a part of that.

To me, Albert Nobbs is a person without an identity, and that's really one of the biggest points of the whole film (for me, anyway).


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We've become a race of peeping toms.

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