MovieChat Forums > Young Adult (2011) Discussion > Don't see Matt and Mavis 'scene' as beli...

Don't see Matt and Mavis 'scene' as believable...


SPOILERSSSSSSSSSS***************




If you've been watching the whole film, you know that Mavis would NEVER get together with a guy like Matt. Even if she felt sorry for him and felt down on herself, it is not in that character's makeup to sleep with Matt. She would never be attracted to Matt and she would never see herself doing that.

I think the movie makes it clear that they're both very similar, in how life has passed them by, for various reasons. That made them FRIENDS...but the whole hooking up scene, I found to be very out of place in this film.

reply

What's so hard to believe that Mavis would sleep with someone to feel better about herself during a low point. We see in the opening of the film she sleeps with the guy she is totally uninterested in because she needs the validation.

With the whole town angry at her and her feeling so down about herself, Matt was there. He was a comfort and would make her feel 'wanted', even if only briefly and she regretted it later.

reply

hmmm, i don't know if the first guy she slept with was for validation.
i took it as, that's what she thinks she's supposed to do. as a pretty girl still in her highschool mentality, she thinks she's supposed to sleep with a guy if he takes her out on a date.
but that's just what i got from it, not so much validation because she didn't seem to feel any better about herself afterwards... in fact, i think that scene was mildly unnecessary.

THE FLOP @$$ BLOG HAS MOVED >> d1esel6.wordpress.com/

reply

<<i think that scene was mildly unnecessary.>>

Perfectly said. I lost a little respect for Diablo Cody after that scene. It wasn't needed. What does it do? We get no resolution afterward and no idea how it affected Oswalt's character. That scene was a bit of a cop-out. It would have been so much more poignant if they had simply embraced closely, as they did at first, and left it at that.

What followed, instead, leaves a bitter taste to the film and reduces its emotional impact overall.

reply

i was talking about the first scene where she had sex with that nameless guy... unnecessary.
but you're absolutely right. her and Matt doing it felt wrong to me and really contrived... like "okay they have to have sex now... it's just the way this type of movie works" but it didn't make sense at all for the characters.
and yes a loving embrace ... or even just a raw revelation from either party would have worked so much better.

THE FLOP @$$ BLOG HAS MOVED >> d1esel6.wordpress.com/

reply

Mavis has low self esteem so it's perfect to show that she sleeps around with no relationships in sight. So I think the scene with the nameless guy was appropriate enough because later on she slept with Matt who is not nameless but Mavis still had low, or even lower, self esteem then.

---

reply

[deleted]

Nope but women with low esteem already like Mavis and all her problems wouldn't care to fck or not.

---

reply

I didn't even buy them buddying.she was bitch whith her friend back home,how could she be so intriguing now with a total stranger?who is telling her to beat it?
plus why she becomes so wise at the end?wasn t she sick?and why the sister tells her oh no you're great?that was put there just to twist a bit the end

reply

Mavis was drunk and an alcoholic. She had just been rejected by a man she thought she loved and that he loved her back. She had humiliated herself in front of her family and former boyfriend.

She probably would have slept with a pensioner just to make herself feel loved.

reply

[deleted]

[deleted]

I agree with you that this scene was not very believable. At first, I thought she was changing for the better, and helping Matt feel validated. But later after her chat with his sister, and the way she took off back to Minneapolis, it appears that this was nothing more than a one-night stand, and not a believable one at that.

reply

I don't think people understand this scene. Matt is, and was, not the typical tall good looking athlete but he's honest with Mavis. They actually felt sorry for one another so they slept with one there. In a way Matt has low self esteem as well.

---

reply

i don't think she felt sorry for him.
she was still a delusional self centered chick through MOST of the movie... and she only really hung out with him (imo) because ... well, nobody else really would ... and the fact that he still adored her... which was a bit of an ego boost.
he felt sorry for her, that's for sure. but i don't think she really developed any REAL feelings for him at all. he was still just the "hate crime guy" to her throughout the whole movie. maybe he became the "kind of cool hate crime guy" but from what i saw, she didn't CARE about him or anything like that.

THE FLOP @$$ BLOG HAS MOVED >> d1esel6.wordpress.com/

reply

I think she does feel sorry enough to do it with him once. Will she do it with him again and again or fall in love and get married with him? That would be an easy no because she's fxcked in the head.

---

reply

The point is, someone like Mavis NEVER would sleep with someone like Matt. If you've watched the entire film, you know she's not built like that. She wouldn't even consider it. She is all about the surface and looks and attraction and nothing else. Even if she has a lot of self loathing, she acts out by drinking and self-destructive behavior. But 'stooping' to sleep with someone like Matt? It makes no sense within the film or for the character.

It's just something Diablo Cody thought would be 'cool' and different....as if to say, 'you didn't expect THAT, did you?' It was more to shock and surprise us and makes no sense within the film or the character.

reply

It was more to shock and surprise us and makes no sense within the film or the character.


It makes perfect sense. They had already bonded over their mutual hatred of everything around them, she knew he was the only person who "got" her, and she was in a state of extreme drunken vulnerability, emphasis on "drunken". People are capable of almost anything in that sort of state. And of course, once she was sober, she sneaked away, probably regretting what she did.

Now, had they become a couple at the end, that would have been inconsistent with her character.

reply

Totally. People seem to think the only reasoning that Mavis could have for sleeping with Matt is that she A) generally wanted to (which isn't believable or B) That she did it because she felt sorry for him.

The REAL reason is because she felt sorry for HERSELF. She needed to feel better about herself. Matt was there. It doesn't fit with her character? As we saw the entire movie, she is extremely insecure with a super low self esteem.

reply

moviefool09 writes:
"It's just something Diablo Cody thought would be 'cool' and different...."

No.

The love scene with Matt is much deeper.

Matt represents the wounded healer archetype. That's pretty clear from the models that he makes. He takes monsters and reconfigures them with superheroes. He restores the "monsters" and makes them better. And through out the story, he tries to advise Mavis about her situation as if he were a talk doctor or something.

When Mavis is at her lowest, she turns to Matt for solace.

Diablo puts more thought into her work than most people realize. Her work is rich with many subtle symbolic details.


"I think it's time to see Amanda sticking guns in people's faces."

reply

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I thought it was a stretch for Mavis to even hang out with Matt during the movie....since they've never run in the same "circles". She was the popular kid...he wasn't. And to SLEEP together? Even more of a stretch.

reply

moviefool09 writes:
"Even more of a stretch."

Well, it's a movie, a drama.

If it were real life, it wouldn't have a script.

It's interesting to note that Buddy really doesn't run in the "same circles" anymore -- Buddy doesn't sleep with Mavis when she returns. He's changed. He's grown up.

Maybe the fact that Mavis sleeps with Matt is a symbolic sign that she will change too. After her trip back home, maybe Mavis is no longer the same person. In the past, she didn't associate with Matt, but now she was intimate with him -- and not just sexually. They talked, which is something that Mavis didn't really do with Buddy. She just assumed that he wanted out of his marriage, she just assumed that he wanted her back. She no longer had a connection with Buddy.

The relationship that Mavis has with Matt can be seen as mature. It seems that it was based on something other than physical attraction. It might be that Mavis turns to Matt out of selfishness -- she wants her ego boosted. But throughout the story, Matt seems to be the only person who understands Mavis; so, her connection with him might be based on a deeper emotional bond. Not teenage hormones, not unrealistic and immature expectations.

Perhaps there is hope for Mavis after all.


"I think it's time to see Amanda sticking guns in people's faces."

reply

There was an earlier thread about this scene, I'm gonna be lazy and copy/paste my response:


Throughout the whole film, Mavis is tugged between people who see her at surface level and praise her, and people who see deeper and urge her to change. Matt is both of those things in one person. He sees clearly that Mavis is dangerously self-centered, emotionally empty, and well along her way to being completely insane. And yet, he'll still give her everything she wants the moment she asks for it, because she's gorgeous.

For Mavis, the scene represents the way she is able to constantly sidestep facing reality and genuinely changing. Instead, she chooses to live off small boosts to her ego wherever she can find them. This allows her to keep convincing herself that she's fine, instead of listening to the people assuring her that she's not. Throughout the film, Matt's character seems to offer her only chance at redemption. It's the only relationship she has in the film that's based on mutual honesty and vulnerability, instead of power games and manipulation.

And yet, at her most vulnerable moment, when reality finally smacks her in the face hard enough to make her take notice, she pisses it all away. Her failure with Buddy should have taught her that she can't simply rely on her looks to make people do what she wants them to. Instead, she chose to assure herself that it still works with most men, even if it didn't with Buddy. She doesn't see Matt as a friend, she doesn't value his advice. In the end, she sees him as a nerdy, lonely cripple who will literally give her the shirt off his back for a chance to get in bed with her.

It's a very cynical message, but on some level I have to respect Diablo Cody and Jason Reitman for going all the way with Mavis's character. And whether or not it's a great movie, this scene is far from unnecessary.

reply

I thought the scene was a bit of a stretch. That said, some good points have been made as to why she'd sleep w/Matt. IMO, as others have noted, she goes for the quick fix, and when her ego is low and/or she's feeling something other than 'good', she looks for anything that will take that neg. feeling away, whether it's alcohol or attention or deluded validation.

Matt had been there for her the entire trip, thru the good and the (mostly) bad. She had a real slap in the face at the party, her ego was LOW, and her carefully crafted reality had been sent into a tailspin.

I don't know if we're meant to believe that Mavis slept w/Matt as a way of trying out a new way of living (ie: being a better person), trying on a different personae ie: the loser she hears everyone at the party saying she is (fine, I'm a loser, no one wants me, I'll go to another loser. At least he still wants me. Etc.) or just as a quick fix. And I do see the point the OP and others have made that even at her lowest point Mavis would never sleep w/someone like Matt.

The way the scene was shot- Mavis gets (nearly) naked in front of Matt, both literally and symbolically, she lays herself bare- is meant to suggest that Mavis was peeling away the layers of her facade. Whether that's meant to suggest that she's trying to be more honest ie: 'better', or she's saying *beep* it, I give up', I don't know. I do think that part of her sleeping w/Matt was a pity *beep* payback for being nice to her when everyone else was so 'mean'. That would be a kind of currency she'd understand.

BTW, I loved this movie. I was also blown away by CT's performance. I've never given her the credit she deserves. I think she nailed the part and made the character so much more than it could've been simply played as written.

reply

Some good arguments made on both sides. But since every movie seems to have to go with the "they know each other so eventually there is a 90% chance there must be a pay off sex scene at some point" I am leaning towards the unnecessary.

At the very least it would have been a nice wrinkle if after desperate and drunk Mavis makes her move on Matt, he passes and tells her she's only doing it because she feels lonely, rejected, and will regret it later. Would have not fit the norm for a dude in his shoes, but at least offered us a bit of a surprise instead of the arbitrary "lets tap that ass" yet again scene.

reply

[deleted]

I already posted in this thread even though I haven't read everything but something occurred to me is Mavis has never slept with anyone that remotely look like Matt. Her self esteem is lower than ever so she doesn't care what she does now.

---

reply

Mavis sleeping with Matt is in many ways the same as the conversation between Mavis and Sandra. Matt tell her the guys like him are always in love with girl like her. That and the fact that she was drunk, leads to it being mostly an ego stroke. Notice how she sneaks out before he is even awake, just like in the beginning of the film. Just because she it bottom, she didn't really learn anything.

All glory to the Hypnotoad

reply

Someone like Mavis would totally sleep with anyone if she felt like it. She felt like *beep* and wanted to do *beep* things for herself like embarrassing herself at name giving ceremony, she could had left but instead she just decided to tell everybody how she felt, she is so selfish. She didn't have one inch of sympathy in her for Matt, thats not why she slept with him.

reply

I don't care how depressed you are, nobody would sleep wit a guy like Matt unless you are too drunk to know better and/or you fell in love wit his personality. She was not drunk and she saw him as a loser.

reply