When it was a white nation that did that in reality, the reaction was somewhat different.
shareof course... as all libtards know, only white people can be racists
shareI should’ve known...
Now what’s that? A sad Klan member be sad?
Cheer up. Don’t be triggered. Just watch the millions of white-centered films made throughout history. I know one of your favorites is 1915’s Birth of a Nation. Wait, that doesn’t count... there’s color folks in it! . But still, go watch it. Like every other far right dimwit crying about BLACK PANTHER here, this classic will make you reminisce about the good ol’ days, punk.
Great rebuttal Drac! One fictional futuristic Afro-centristic film made and white privilege is forever threatened???
Wakanda would NOT have existed if they were open to the blood thirsty colonists...FACTS.
Haroon5 said: "Wakanda would NOT have existed if they were open to the blood thirsty colonists...FACTS."
Ridiculous. You are saying that the influence of European colonists retarded the growth of indigenous populations... If that's the case, why isn't there a real Wakanda on Sentinel island in the Indian Ocean? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentinelese.
The same goes for uncontacted tribes in South America. Why aren't they technological powerhouses?
These uncontacted indigenous people are still living a stone-age lifestyle without any input from colonists, missionaries, traders, or what have you.
I'm very sorry, but without the influence of colonists, if Europeans had never landed in Africa, that continent would basically be one huge version of Sentinel Island.
These exotic places you just named does not have resources worth raping or exploiting for, poor example. Trust me, if Sentinel island or uncontacted tribes of South America had gold and oil, they would've been damn near the victims of genocide.
shareYou're missing my point, but we can still get back on track. OK, so what has stopped Sentinel Island from becoming a modern civilization? It didn't have those nasty evil Europeans to mess things up like they did in Africa. Why aren't the Sentinelese living in an advanced utopian society?
shareWhy would you expect them to be? They live in isolation on a remote island with no natural resources worth mentioning. They seem happy enough to be left alone. Perhaps your idea of Utopia is vastly different from their version?
shareYou are a numpty.
Read up on Ethopia pre Italy being an arse.
Hell Italy dropped chemical weapons on it to try and get its way.
The only way for areas to be left alone during the scramble for Africa and other territories were to either be as advanced as those trying to colonise it but even then it wasn't a guaranteed tactic as you can ask China during the Opium wars. Or to be completely worthless. (hence Sentinal Island being left the fuck alone) The only area that doesn't fall into those areas are the likes of Afghanistan, Nepal and Bhutan as it being too hard for colonial powers to get a foot hold in but that didn't stop the British sending folk to conquer it before getting their butts handed to them or find it being pretty hard to get to.
Aztec's where pretty damned advanced when the Spanish turned up and their empire was ripped to shreds. Portugal and Spain liked to enslave or kill any tribes they came into contact with during that period so you know who wasn't - those who ran to the forests and didn't trade with outsiders. That forced a lot of groups back technologically as it would have been the only way to remain safe - not to trade or come into contact with people.
Even if a country was deemed to have technological advancements and was colonised, if it wasn't in the interests of a colonial country to let it be advance its advancements would be ripped away.
India pre European industrialisation was considered to be pretty industrialised as it had a village economy system based on agriculture and handicrafts which where traded between themselves (they were pretty self sufficient and a decent market economy). That wasn't in British interests in the 19th century. They needed raw materials from India (Cotton and Tea) and the manufactured products produced in the villages were deemed as competition to the manufactured products imported from the UK. The villages were de-industrialised and agriculture was prioritised. Meaning that village economies more dependent on caste systems and if crops failed they didn't have a back up they previously had as they didn't have a market or the produce in locally produced manufactured products to sell.
Why the fuck do you think that Ghandi made the spinning wheel the symbol of Indian independence??
In terms of fictional Wakanda, it gives an interesting proposal - during the 18th century if the colonial powers knew there was a powerful, technologically advanced, resource rich area in africa what would they have done. Trade with it? Work with it? Or continually try to conquer it?
You know fine well they would have gone hell for leather to continually conquer it. Now Wakanda might have survived but the areas around it? Better to pretend that it was a mountainous area that had little to nothing to offer and be left alone.
That isn't saying white people bad before you start being triggered - that is saying colonialism is bad!
Why didn't Africans triumph over Egyptians or Phoenicians? That was thousands of years before "blood thirsty" European colonists.
They had all the resources and the technological gap was minimal. Same with Rome, Vandals and even Arabs.
Silly willy Africans are Egyptians... Education is so important...
share Don’t be triggered. Just watch the millions of white-centered films made throughout history. I know one of your favorites is 1915’s Birth of a Nation. Wait, that doesn’t count...
The DIFFERENCE is that 1915 Birth of a Nation is now seen as morally wrong, while Wakanda is seen as so right that almost no reviewer dares to cast a negative review.
The western world hasn't reached a balance point. It just has changed xenophobia to embrace ENDOPHOBIA... and to praise xenophobia as long as it comes from non-western-whites against western whites.
"Wait, that doesn’t count... there’s color folks in it! ."
Not really.
That's because they exclude the inferior non-black races, so it's fine.
It's like modern South Africa, where white are second class citizens, as wasp yankees soon will be in US. But this is fine because whites are inferior.
Black is the new Aryan. Hail Black Panther!
have you guys seen the movie or are you just reacting to expectations?
shareDid you NOT see Avatar? Pandora and the Navi beg to differ!
shareLol. A group of people who have been unfairly discriminated against for centuries can't even have a moment in time where we can celebrate ourselves without other people having something stupid to say about it.
FYI, I know ya'll don't like to hear it, but it case you forgot, white people in America have a rich history of enslaving, lynching, and tormenting a group of people because they believed they were the "superior race". So yeah, if a white nation did that it wouldn't go over too well.
You guys are putting so much energy into this. From one black person to whatever race you are, PLEASE shut up. If you don't want to watch the movie, stay home and be mad.
God, ya'll are SO exhausting.
If you can't see a problem with a fantasy about a black Nazi-esque nation, or indeed a nation of any color inhabitants who embody Nazi values, then it's a little alarming.
shareIf you can't see a problem with a fantasy about a black Nazi-esque nation, or indeed a nation of any color inhabitants who embody Nazi values, then it's a little alarming.There is nothing, zero, nada even remotely similar between fictional Wakanda and Nazi. You haven't seen the movie. You haven't read the comics. You want someone to argue the negative when the negative doesn't exist. You want someone to disprove your false narrative that you have created in your head.
Wakanda corresponds quite accurately to the Nazi dream of what their Reich would become. The only difference is that the people are Black Africans rather than White Aryans.
share***Wakanda corresponds quite accurately to the Nazi dream of what their Reich would become. The only difference is that the people are Black Africans rather than White Aryans.***
Wrong again. Don't move your goal posts to "Dreams" from what Nazism was and still is.
Fictional Wakanda had no "Dreams" of being a totally monolithic society of Super-Aryan like people.
Again, you haven't seen the movie. You know zero nothing, nada, zilch about the Marvel created mythology of Wakanda. Just admit that.
1. Wakanda doesn't blame others for their lack of progress. Did that happen under Nazism?
Nazism subscribed to theories of racial hierarchy and Social Darwinism, identifying the Germans as a part of what the Nazis regarded as an Aryan or Nordic master race.[2] It aimed to overcome social divisions and create a German homogeneous society based on racial purity which represented a people's community (Volksgemeinschaft). The Nazis aimed to unite all Germans living in historically German territory, as well as gain additional lands for German expansion under the doctrine of Lebensraum and exclude those who they deemed either community aliens or "inferior" races. The term "National Socialism" arose out of attempts to create a nationalist redefinition of "socialism", as an alternative to both international socialism and free market capitalism. Nazism rejected the Marxist concept of class conflict, opposed cosmopolitan internationalism and sought to convince all parts of the new German society to subordinate their personal interests to the "common good" and accept political interests as the main priority of economic organization.You don't know what Nazism is do you?
Here's a summary on this site: https://squawker.org/culture-wars/black-panther-neo-nazis-hero/
shareRemain Klingon!
shareSo in your mind an Alt-Right opinion piece explains the Mythological Wakanda's alignment to Nazism? An Alt-Right opinion piece which doesn't even bother to trot out anything about Wakanda but the author's warped understanding and contorted representations?
Been there and done that. Here chew on this for a second: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POZCF9t9FUI Does that sound familiar and desperate to you?
Admit it you know Zero about Nazism or Wakanda.
I've no horse in this race Norrin but that's the very YouTube link that supports the Squaker argument that whynotwriteme linked to.
It seems circles are being made here.
I didn't say that the link disagreed with him just that it is nothing new and original but just more of an Alt-Right propaganda piece. It was NOT a Wakanda piece or link that supported or even denounces his POV. The inclusion of the link was to announce I know that already.
As I said it should have sounded familiar because it is based on the same flawed attempt by the Alt-Right to De-legitimize the mythology of Wakanda by trying to align it with Nazism which could not be further from the truth.
The mantra for Wakanda is "They Don't Care".
None of the Nazi tenents and or labels of the Alt-Right are even defined or codified with any part of Wakanda. The intent of the Alt-Right alignment to Wakanda is only to so call "Trigger" the sensibilities of Liberals, BLM, Black Activist and Social Progressives. In effect what the Alt-Right is doing is what BLM and Social Activist would call nothing more than Cultural Appropriation by convenience to push forward an Alt-Right agenda by assimilation and subversion of the opposite side's ideas and platforms.
The Alt-Right has done an excellent job of deconstruction and through reflection argument attempted to turn every aspect of the Civil Rights Movement and platform into their weapon by being intellectually dishonest. The Alt-Right is aggrieved? The Alt-Right are victims? The Alt-Right are oppressed? Spare us all from this faux platform of convenience.
As I said he knows zero about Nazism and Zero about fictional Mythological Wakanda.
I've not seen the movie yet and have never been let down by a Marvel movie to date and so don't expect to be in this one.
All I was pointing out that is the link you gave was the same link the source of the article whynotewriteme linked to.
I am hopeful and reckon we'll get a gem of a film.
Expect more racially motivated threads and posts here the closer to the movie we get and after its release though.
Yes Reality I knew that. I wanted him to know that I was aware of this particular Alt-Right opinion and attempt to leverage and Co-Opt Nationalism and more specific Black Nationalism as equivalent to White Nationalism. Sorry, it again is a False Equivalency.
Jeffery Lord attempted to portray Donald Trump as Martin Luther King and now the Alt-Right are attempting to paint T'Challa as equal to Donald Trump? Words and fact are meaningless to the Alt-Right and their audience.
When I asked him to produce a link for Wakanda that supports Nazism = Wakanda he pointed to an Alt-Right piece that is an opinion piece. All he had to do was produce a Wakanda treatise or something, anything that supported his statements.
It doesn't exist.
Let's crack some eggs but Am-O-Let you figure out where you went wrong.
Wakanda is unbowed, unbroken and unconquered. Did that happen under Nazism?
Wakanda is totally self-sufficient. Did that happen under Nazism?
Wakanda is a monarchy of 10,000 years. Did that happen under Nazism?
So it seems that the moral problem with Nazism was that they lost the war and that Hitler was not born a king. Since Wakanda is a isolatinist hereditary monarchy that didn't lost the war, then Wakanda is right.
Good to know.
So you really think that was the moral problem with Hitler's Nazi Germany? No mention of genocide in your post. You won the stupidity award.
shareThat was not what I think. That was the logical conclusion from your words (or the one who wrote the previous message, though I think you'd gladly make his words yours)
When somebody compares Wakanda and Nazi Germany based in some elements like a state policy of racial homogeneity, and the answer is that they can't be compared because both countries differ in variables like Wakanda being a monarchy and not having lost a war... the LOGICAL CONCLUSION is that whether a state policy of racial homogeneity is right or wrong DEPENDING on variables like whether the country is ruled by a monarchy or whether the country won the war. Because otherwise those variables wouldn't be relevant and pointing to them in the message would make no sense.
Explained in a easier way:
If somebody asks a kid what he's doing walking inside an office building and he answers that he's the son of an office worker, the LOGICAL CONCLUSION is that the the kid thinks that being the son of an office worker allows him someway to be there. Otherwise, it would make no sense to point out to that fact.
Similarly, if somebody is pointing out to how Wakanda and Nazi Germany share elements like the state policy of racial homogeneity and you, or somebody else, answer that Wakanda is a monarchy and didn't lost the war, the LOGICAL CONCLUSION is that you think that being a monarchy or not having lost the war permits someway Wakanda to have that policy. Otherwise, it would make no sense to point out that fact.
LOL! You're trying to equate Africa with Nazi-ism? What "values" does Africa have with Nazis? Please, do tell.
but it case you forgot, white people in America have a rich history of enslaving, lynching, and tormenting a group of people because they believed they were the "superior race"
It's not possible to "forget" something that was never true. There were many reasons why blacks were lynched, and the "superior race" one was not even a common one.
Indeed, a very common one was the black guy being accused of rape by a white woman. And then you had the white knights lynching the guy because, you know, fake rape accusations don't exist. SJW back then used to happily hang black guys because you always have to believe the female victim, you know, otherwise that would be blaming the victim. Jim Crow laws, in case you forgot, were enacted by the left.
Are you serious? Now you're just in denial. White people hated black people (or anyone different from them) SIMPLY because of the color of their skin, and that's a FACT. If you don't want to accept that, that's your problem. Keep living in that fantasy world.
shareNope. It was not hate, it was contempt, disgust, not hate.
Indeed, you can see it nowadays: modern Chinese generation despise western people, they see us as inferior. But there's no hate: you don't hate those who are worse than you, you despise them, this is how human psyche works.
Here you have a video from Petersen about it, with a very extreme example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5jZFpW6uzs
Black that were lynched because of a rape accusation were not lynched because of hate. It was moral indignation: somebody that you despise dared to rape a woman!! that deserves nothing less than hanging from a tree!! But this is a different emotion from hate.
However, I understand why you want so much to make it a hate situation: you can relate to the real people who lynched. You can feel the same moral indignation when you hear somebody accused of rape. You feel disgusted too when somebody calls for presumption of innocence... they're blaming the victim!!! how they dare!!! But in your case, it has to be right... hasn't it?? Because you are different from those guys who lynched blacks years ago... aren't you???
And that's the elephant in the room: you aren't.
Is this all that it takes to celebrate being black? A comic book character? That was created by a white man? Of all of the ways that black people can honor their history and culture, it's by riding on the coat tails of a fictional super hero created by a white man? Isn't that a bit depressing? That can't be how black people celebrate themselves.
shareWhat the hell are you talking about? We didn't just start celebrating ourselves over this movie. This movie is just one more thing to celebrate. And another stupid thing I keep seeing over the net is how people are trying So hard to point out that Black Panther was made by a white man....so? FYI you don't need to be BLACK to be PRO-BLACK.
shareThis is a movie about a fictional comic book character that takes place in a fictional country. There is nothing intrinsically black about it at all. White people don't "celebrate themselves" over the fact that Superman is white. The character of Superman is celebrated because he's iconic and has a long history in the comic book industry. He's a legacy character because he stood the test of time, but it's not because he's white. So why on earth would black people celebrate themselves over this? It's ridiculous.
And yes, the fact that it was created by a white man does play a part in the irony of it all. It's bad enough to find racial pride in a comic book, worse even when it was created by a white man.
White people don't need to celebrate Superman because he's white. What hardships have white people encountered over the way they look? What triumphs have they overcame? The list of white superheroes are far and long. Why would they need to celebrate?
I think what white people need to understand is that they will just never understand. You don't know what it's like to be a minority, you don't know what it's like to be hated over the color of your skin, you don't know what its like to be underrepresented in the media. Ya'll just don't get it. And we can go back and forth and argue over this until we're both blue in the face, but until you've lived the Black experience you just. won't. get it.
Well I mean white people paved the road to democracy, freedom, civil rights, womens rights, gay rights, capitalism, abolished slavery worldwide, birth control, social welfare, the internet, mobile telecommunications, putting men on the moon, advanced medicine and surgical revolutions, created the automobile, airplane, transcontinental train, and a host of other things I could get into. To say that those things required no hardships is blatantly untrue and unfair. Tell me why those things shouldn't count.
Are you saying that the Irish and Italians didn't face discrimination when coming to America? Have you been keeping up with whites in South Africa? I wouldn't exactly say it's a vacation for them.
What under representation are you talking about? The media FAWNS over black people. Between Barack Obama and Colin Kapernick, it has never been more trendy to be black. Any time a black person gets shot it's international attention. Have you taken a look at who's playing our sports? The majority of the NFL and NBA, both sports that were created by white men, are now dominated by black men. Where is this under-representation I keep hearing?
Londonbridge115 wrote:
"What the hell are you talking about? We didn't just start celebrating ourselves over this movie"
Except earlier you whined...
"Lol. A group of people who have been unfairly discriminated against for centuries can't even have a moment in time where we can celebrate ourselves without other people having something stupid to say about it."
You act as if big bad evil forces are starving black people of the opportunity to celebrate themselves. It's no accident this film is being released in February, a month devoted every year to black people for the very purpose of celebrating themselves, along with (mainly) white people who are essentially forced to participate if they wish to keep their jobs and avoid fierce condemnation. Every single politician in the USA has to explicitly bow to black history month. If they fail to do so they're automatically racist, if they're the wrong skin color. So stop your blubbering about the fictional universe in which black people are prevented or denied any forums for mutual lovefests. The bogus claim that the 11 other months are celebrations of "white history month" are ridiculous if for no other reason than they're not advertised that way.
Just to be factual, Africans,Native Americans and Spanish ancestry all have a history and some currently,of slavery and the basic disregard for human life.
shareFYI, I know ya'll don't like to hear it, but it case you forgot, white people in America have a rich history of enslaving, lynching, and tormenting a group of people because they believed they were the "superior race". So yeah, if a white nation did that it wouldn't go over too well.
I agree. It doesn't bother me at all that this cast is pretty much all black, but don't tell me it's diverse just because they did the opposite of what a "white" movie would do. An all-black cast doesn't make a movie more diverse than an all-white cast does.
sharewhynotwriteme, does the film at any point state that Wakanda excludes other races? A country where the majority of the population are (broadly speaking) of one ethnic group is not a sign of prejudice - it just shows a lack of immigration. I mean, heck, look at countries like Japan, Ghana and Nigeria; they're not expressing prejudice because they don't have a lot of whites living there.
shareJapan is infact notoriously xenophobic of all races. In larger cities like Tokyo obviously it may be different, but try taking a trip to Kyoto as a white person and not getting stares.
It's just that non-white racists are seen as trendy by the left because then it's just "traditional" and "cultural" and "insular". When white majority countries discriminate then it's racial supremacy.
That happens with almost every country in the world. Why xenophobia is always linked to western countries or countries like Japan or Sourth Korea?
Because those are interesting countries. Japan is a very interesting country, and you know it's extremely difficult for a foreigner to be accepted... because there's foreigners that tries to be accepted.
It's hard to see somebody saying the same about Egypt because... nobody is interested to be accepted as a part of Egypt. That creates an statistical illusion: as the more productive and interesting countries are the ones where people try to be accepted, it seems that they are the ones that reject foreigners. But that's just an illusion: it's not that they are more xenophobic. They're just more popular.