Spoiler


Rey gains the high ground and wins.

https://starwarsblog.starwars.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/art-of-rise-of-skywalker.jpg

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I suppose Disney thinks this is even suspenseful. Darth Vader was a kick ass villain. It was going to be a huge challenge for Luke to battle him. He even got his butt kicked once, basically Vader was toying with him and trying to turn him otherwise he'd have been killed. The Emperor was an even bigger challenge.

Kylo was turned into a pathetic, weak, whiny villain in the first film and lost the first battle. Why is Rey beating Kylo even interesting? It's not. She's already beaten him in the first film...hence no big "climatic" battle with Kylo and Rey.

It is irrelevant due to the poor planning, vision and story telling of Disney.

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Luke beat Vader in their first fight.

It was in the Death Star trench.

Luke won without even knowing Vaders moves!

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You mean HAN beat Vader, with the aid of a large freighter. And in any case, Han only got lucky.

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Luke deftly avoided Vaders attack and put his thrusters in Vaders face. Luke WON.

Han didnt beat Vader. Han shot one TIE and the other HIT Vader in panic.

Now lets complete the circle.

Rey lost to Kylo once, and he captured her.

Rey and Kylo did not finish their fencing match. The ground split open.

Rey looked like a fool for most of the fencing match and ONLY got the upper hand thanks to The Force.

Oh but Rey is too powerful. Girls cant Force lol!

Farm Boy Luke beat Vader, THE BEST, in the second lightsaber of Luke's life... and Luke never trained in saber combat. He also had no one to practice with.

Oh but Rey is too powerful!

Lol @ blind sexism. Boys can do anything but girls have to be realistic EVEN WHEN MAGIC FORCE IS INVOLVED.

You cant admit to this because it would mean admitting that you could possibly be wrong.

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Vader had Luke dead to rights. Han was the one to beat Vader in the first movie and even then, it was by sheer luck since Han shot a TIE fighter and the second fighter swerved and hit Vader.

I can't even begin to think how you can see that as a win for Luke.

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Luke was literally 1 second from being blown away by Vader ...

You already know your argument is the lamest attempt of all time to promote your sexist ideology regarding rey.

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Nice trolling.

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It was a fact and thank you for your admission that its correct.

Dont forget that Farm Boy Luke beat Vader, the best Jedi killing saber user EVER, on the second fight of Lukes entire life, even though Luke was never trained in saber combat.

Hell, the Rebellion threw that farm boy into an x-wing he had never flown to fight the Death Star. No one had even seen him piloting.

Pure faith, no reason for it. It was written to happen.

Luke can FORCE PULL at the start of ESB even though he didnt know telekinesis was part of the Force. He had never even SEEN it done!

Who taught him to Force Focus to blow up the Death Star? No one.

Ah but Luke is a male so he can do anything

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Troll X2.

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Why dont you just admit you cant debunk my points and are too lazy to even try?

These non responsive posts are little more than putting your fingers in your ears.

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Luke didn't 'beat' Vader in trench.

Debunked.

When Vader faced Luke in one on one combat he kicked his ass.

Luke trained for years before bested Vader.

Debunked.

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After a couple years on here I'ved concluded that Frog is a sweetheart who generally doesn't troll & is fully capable of being thoughtful & rational when she wants to be but I'm afraid she is a complete lost cause when it comes to debating Star Wars. More specifically when it involves defending the ST and Rey in particular.

Frog just seems so in love with the idea of Rey that she is completely unwilling to concede any objective critique of Rey & will go to any length of mental gymnastics to defend the character, often arguing that Luke is just as much a Mary Sue as per the latest assertion it's okay that Rey inexplicably beat down Kylo in the first film with zero training because Luke "beat" Vader in the trench run in ANH. Not really much you can do with that.





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So Frog is a gurl?

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Yeah. I'm pretty sure, at least as far as what I've seen in how she presents herself. Obviously can't be completely sure about anyone on an anonymous message board.

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You have not been paying attention

Put down whomever you choose but when Froggy speaks you should shut your noise hole and listen...it's just good advice boy man

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Froggy is not a girl, he's a dude

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I'll just pi ot past your strange rant and ask how you know Frog is a dude? I mean of course it's possible but Frog from what i've seen definitely talks like woman.

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He's not trolling. I have seen him troll and be an ass but not this time.lol

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Totally agree.😎

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They weren't fighting.

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Oh and Lucas made Vader too powerful.

This is why Vader was CHANGED in Empire and combined with Luke's father, who Lucas was planning to bring back.

This allowed Luke to win without cheating Vader. Lucas realized Vader was way too popular and decided to make him sympathetic instead of the villain he was planned to be.

It worked out marvelously. Fyi, Kylo was NEVER meant to be a new Vader. He is specifically a failing Vader wannabe.

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Kylo was NEVER meant to be a new Vader. He is specifically a failing Vader wannabe.


Agreed, but that's why he's not an intimidating villain. He's a loser who constantly whines baout wanting to be a badass. Even Finn who is a non-Force sensitive Stormtrooper, was able to stand up to him. General Hux was undermining him at every turn, Snoke seemed to be constantly disappointed in him, and he never really displays any amount of competency. So when people aren't excited about the final battle, it speaks of how much of a wimp the villain is. A dangerous villain creates drama and a sense of concern for the main characters. If the heroes have beaten the villain multiple times across two movies, what's to look forward to in the final battle?

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Think Thanos and they only beat him 1 in 14,000,600 future realities .... that is high stakes. kylo is no villain.

Those odds or more like kylo's chances of beating rey, ever.

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Lol he's specifically a failing wannabe only after he fails to beat rey, which is ludicrous.

Why is he still the antagonist? So he can continue to get schooled and punished by rey every film?

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Lukes piloting skills are mentioned before the trench run by Biggs Darklighter

"Sir, Luke is the best bush pilot in the Outer Rim Territories"
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The final torpedo shot is already explained earlier before the trench run.

"Wedge Antilles (Red 2): That's impossible! Even for a computer. Luke: It's not impossible. I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back home, they're not much bigger than two meters.

This is setting up the premise to make the ending believable to show that he is infact capable of these feats by doing similar previously.

Han Solo is the one who shoots the other Tie Fighter which pushes into Vader causing him to spinout. Again Han Solo not Luke.

We don't know the true amount of time that passes on Dagobah, so yes it could be a week or could be 3 years, personally i believe it is somewhere halfway. Now in that time we se him stuggle with his feelings, we see him struggle with the ability to master the Force (couldn't lift his X-Wing and without concentration couldn't keep a rock up in the air).

His battle with Vader in Empire he gets his ass handed to him and literally loses a body part to show his struggle and the beginning of possibly crossing to the darkside like his father, that lightsaber battle is epic.

Now Rey on the other hand. We are shown that she is a scavenger on a hostile planet so yes i'm sure she can defend herself when called upon (the stick she carries) but at no point in the movie are we told of her piloting or engineerily skills. Like all lazy writing it is just shown without explanation, she gets in the Falcon and can fly it like she has been doing it for decades, it is not believable. She can fix the Falcon with an idea that one of the original owners (Solo) couldnt figure out, again lazy writing just to show us again how awesome she is.

She literally receives no formal training, absolutey none what-so-ever in any shape or form in "The Force Awakens" but is able to beat a trained sith with a weapon she didn't even know existed or had handled before leaving Jakku. She also managed to learn Force Pull/Push again wthout even being told she could even do it which also includes mind manipulation, again a skill she didn't know existed but knew how to perform, hmmmmm.

This then continues into "The Last Jedi", we still see no formal training of any kind apart from hinting she may have read some books and standing in front of a rock for 5 mins weilding a lightsaber, i could do that but it woudn't make me a master saber expert like she is (see pretorian guard fight).

Rey is a lazy written character just to fill the "strong female character" agenda and because of this, this trilogy is worse than the prequels. For all there faults at least they had a purpose, a story, an ending.

This new trilogy is just a mess of ill conceived plot points and easily the worst jedi character ever seen in the Star Wars universe.

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Whoa there, slow down.

Wasting your time.

Frog knows all of these things but it doesn't suit their narrative for rey. Frog prefers to live in the invented reality in their head and not the reality where ZERO of their points were raised in almost 40 years for some reason and then magically they are cooked up in 2015 or whatever.

You will never meet a more delusion moron than frog. Best to just ignore their mental gymnastics BS.

Rey is a Mary Sue though, notice how frog never refutes this, rather just tried to invent nonsensical false equivalence lol.

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