Orcis Trek 3


From various articles/rumours etc it sounded like Orcis script (which he was going to direct) was going to be very 'Star Treky' dealing with alternate timelines/realities - so something like Days of Future Past/Terminator Genysis/BTTF2 & Yesterdays Enterprise/All Good Things/Trails&Tribulations. And of course like ST09 touched upon in order to reboot the universe, but in much greater depth and maybe not with time travel as time travels been done 3 times already in the movies (or 4 if you count Generations) and as recently as just the last but one film (but its not been done yet in the AGT/DOFP consciousness type way) and would've involved Shatner in a fairly prominent role (at the time he stated JJ had informed him hed be in it) either as actual Kirk 'Prime' somehow, or as a future version of Pines Kirk (maybe Shatner would've been zipping across timelines/interacting with familiar events like Picard in AGT?). Nimoy was also rumoured as going to be involved (before he died of course). And it may have potentially wrapped up/ended it as a trilogy Nolan Dark Knight style (which i think Orci had previously stated the nuTrek films were sort of following as a template) - so maybe the alternate universe was somehow to be concluded (but not necessarily the end of the film series) maybe even to make way for the new TV show set in the prime universe? e.g. ties to the events of the first film - an 'all roads led to here' type thing involving links to the Narada and its disappearance at the end of ST09? old Spock returning to the Prime universe? ShatKirk?, maybe even TNG?

That stuff (if it was to be that) sounds very 'Star Treky'/fanish (possibly the grounds on which Orci left) and something that would make sense for a fan like Orci to come up with (taking into account the previous 2 films stories and comparisons to TDK trilogy) especially with it being the 50th anniversary, evoking call backs to Treks rich history (like Dr Who 50th did). I'd have much preferred that kind of stuff to what I seen/heard so far of STB (which looks as its going to be like a big budget version of Omega Glory meets Avatar/Insurrection with a Generations style crash and emphasis on the prime directive. no dealing with ShatKirk, alternate timelines, etc.)

Perhaps Paramount didnt want to go with it as they didn't want to be dealing with 'Prime' stuff (esp without Nimoys involvement due to ill health/death) and potentially conclude the rebooted alt universe, and just wanted to proceed as if it were a new ongoing universe (potentially leading to ST4/5 etc as the cast are signed up to) with an all new adventure unrelated to any complicated alternate universe stuff and call backs to what happened in the 'Prime' universe (which was a central aspect of both ST09 and STID)


Maybe IDW comics will do Orcis ST3 as a 50th Ann special - 'Beyond Darkness?' (like what happened with Harve Bennetts Trek VI Academy movie which was sort of done as a DC comics special at the time of Trek VI/the 25th anniversary)

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btw Orci says he might get it turned into a novel or comic here:

kadajawi
April 11, 2016 11:49 am

Actually I liked STID way more than 2009, and would rate it as one of the better Star Trek movies. Top 3 or 4. And most of all, it is a Star Trek movie. Not an action movie disguised as a Star Trek movie. It takes up typical Trek issues, and I haven’t seen such a beautiful depiction of the Prime Directive, ever.
Now that doesn’t mean it wasn’t flawed, many things went wrong in the movie. I mostly attribute them to Lindelof and Kurtzman, so I would have loved to see Orci freed of them. It’s a shame we’ll never see that movie… but maybe the script could be leaked? I’m dying to find out what could have been. Bob? Please?

boborci
April 11, 2016 11:55 am

will try to get it turned into novel:)

Mike Barnett
April 11, 2016 3:03 pm

How about turning it into a comic book?

boborci
April 11, 2016 4:19 pm

That might be good, too!

http://trekmovie.com/2016/04/10/new-star-trek-beyond-promotional-images-appear-at-trade-show-in-las-vegas-abrams-and-pegg-to-appear-monday-night/

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It's happened before where the original script was better than the new script example jack ryan shadow recruit another paramount film. Who ever is making these choices really needs to be fired from paramount especially if orci script turns out better than peggs. (Not that pegg can't write a good script it's just he practically had no time too)

"Some of the worst things imaginable have been done with the best intentions"

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The problem is, Orci's movie sounded like it would be about 1,000 times better than the horrid trailers we have gotten for STB so far. It would have also been a final way to pay tribute to the different Treks during the 50th instead of whatever this thing is we are seeing.

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agreed. I think what was rumoured at the time was the way to go for the 50th

Orci himself has said it was the only story he wanted to do for ST3 but Paramount obviously didn't feel that way:

"They brought [Justin Lin] in to start over because I was only willing and able to tell the story we had generated”

"We wrote a two drafts of a script, but when it made it to the top and was rejected, we did a hail mary version of a new story in two weeks, but I knew it was a lost cause and not what I wnated to do. Was just trying to be a good soldier and not give up, but it became obvious that I needed to walk away or suffer for two years. Really, we submitted one “story” that I believed in."
http://trekmovie.com/2016/04/11/coming-onto-trek-a-rescue-mission-says-beyond-director-justin-lin-how-beyond-will-honor-leonard-nimoy-lins-hope-for-trek-on-tv/

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That's saying a lot but I'm just happy we're at least getting another Star Trek movie. I would have liked to have seen what Orci would have done with it, but I think Beyond will be cool. I definitely agree with the earlier comment that it is bringing to mind Generations and Insurrection. Insurrection was actually the first Trek movie that came to mind when we saw the first trailer.

www.universalmonstersuniverse.com

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-had JJ not been persuaded to do SW7 (after Brad Bird passed as was doing Tomorrowland) hed have more than likely directed Trek3 and if so its reasonable to assume he would he have gone with/backed Orcis script. completing the JJ/Orci Trek trilogy (like Nolan/Goyer Bat trilogy)

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Absolutely. Imagine a Brad Bird directed Star Trek though... That'd be cool.

www.universalmonstersuniverse.com

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Bet bird wishes hed done SW7 now instead of Tomorrowland

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STB isn't a trilogy wrap up http://trekmovie.com/2016/04/18/not-the-end-could-nutrek-franchise-go-from-star-trek-beyond-to-infinity/ (maybe Orcis was intended to wrap things up?)

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Except that Tomorrowland is better than SW7.

There. I said it.

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Orci's movie sounded like it would be about 1,000 times better than the horrid trailers

No info about Orci's movie was ever released, so that's a rather groundless statement--and I say that as someone who agrees with you about the BEYOND trailer being horrid. Plus, Orci is a pretty weak writer.

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pine talks orci's Trek3, the 2 Kirks meeting:

When JJ Abrams rebooted the Star Trek movie universe in 2009, he created an alternate timeline, allowing the events of previous films to still exist and for Leonard Nimoy's Spock to interact with his younger self. This led to the question of whether we'd ever see Chris Pine's Captain James T. Kirk encounter an older version of himself. You know - the one played by William Shatner.

"At this point there’s been so much built up about this potential portentous meeting between the two Kirks," Pine says in an interview in the latest issue of SFX. He's not wrong.

Before cameras started rolling on the third chapter, Star Trek Beyond, word began circulating about an early script draft that included Shatner's Kirk. This was part of original director Roberto Orci's plan, but once he left and Justin Lin stepped in to direct things changed. Co-writer Simon Pegg came aboard to rewrite the screenplay with Doug Jung, and the idea of bringing the two versions together was axed.

If that draft had made it to production, Pine believes having two Kirks onscreen would override discussion about the actual movie itself. "It would just become about that," he adds. "The movie can’t become about that. The movie has to be about whatever story we’re trying to tell. It’d be fun, it’d be kitschy, it’d be a great piece for you guys to talk about, and for late-night TV, but above and beyond that I don’t know what it serves for our storytelling purposes, you know?"

http://www.gamesradar.com/this-is-why-you-wont-see-william-shatner-and-chris-pine-in-a-star-trek-movie-together/


sounds abit like Generations Kirk meeting Picard

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[deleted]

-interesting rumour

If the rumors were true for Orchis script of Kirk n crew, vulcsns, & 3rd alien race all racing to obtain a time travel device so vulcans could stop the destruction of their planet by Nero that script sounded very poor even worse than STID....... A gimmick w Nimoy n Shatner meeting their counter parts couldn't save that Was very happy to hear studio thought same n changed
http://www.trekbbs.com/threads/star-trek-beyond.270580/page-249

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maybe Orcis ST3 will now be the George Kirk thing
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2660888/board/nest/259497244

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orci confirms his ST3 plot

Chase for doohickey against Annunaki to reset back to prime timeline. Theme: The Last temptation of Kirk And Spock
https://twitter.com/realboborci/status/760638759738028032?lang=en-gb

It's the temptation. Restore Vulcan, Kirks Father, and Spock's mother? Or play the hand they are dealt?
https://twitter.com/realboborci/status/760928061621620737?lang=en-gb

Only with help of Prime Kirk, who they meet on the adventure, can they solve the dilemma.
https://twitter.com/realboborci/status/760928356208513025?lang=en-gb


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I read ST novels. But I'm not interested in a novel to Orcis script. Alan Dean Foster wrote the last two novelizations and most likely would be asked to write this one as well. Now, Foster is certainly a good writer and I liked his Humanx Commonwealth. But the plot to this one would still be Orci's and Abrams' and I really don't care about that crap.

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I think I flagged you by accident;my apologies. As for Orci, I'm sure it'd turn out to be some whacked out conspiracy theory fueled polemic.

What's missing in movies is same as in society: a good sense of work ethic and living up to ideals.

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[deleted]

orcis currently on twitter loving how hes been proven correct about Hilary

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can't help but think they'd have been better off doing whatever Orci had cooked up for 3. The underling theme of the first film was about the altering of the timeline and the changes it created, the 2nd continued it and was about the prime timeline sort of seeping back into this new one (blowing up at the end) albeit with different outcomes.. maybe the 3rd should've been about an attempted restoration of the prime timeline and all that would involve (so it'd be a sort of 'timeline trilogy' dealing with the altering of the timeline and everything it brings about, like the BTTF trilogy was a timeline trilogy) Not veering off into this unrelated standalone 'TOS fanfiction.' (calling it 'Beyond' as if it was beyond all that timeline malarkey to instead do a TOS episode writ large) It sounds like if there is to be a 4th it will be what 3 should've been with the same writers (time travel/alt timeline, but looks to be Hemsworth instead of Shatner) in which case STB would be like if TFF had come in between TSFS and TVH.. (as it was TFF was still a unrelated 'standalone' movie between TVH and the more connected TUC, not really anything to do with 2346 at all.)

I bet if JJA had stayed on as director (with Matthew Vaughan or even Spielberg directing TFA) hed have done the Orci 3

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Bump

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[deleted]

recently rewatched Dr Who’s 50th ann episode and it was such a celebration of all things Who (2 Doctors team up, John Hurt as a never seen before Doctor, Tom Baker, previous Doctors and Capaldi cameo, even revealing what happened to the McGann Doctor) it just pisses me off when I think of what Treks 50th movie could've been..

it was absolute stupidity to leave out Shatner for Beyond. along with Nimoy and Stewart hes a Trek mega star. arguably the biggest one. hes the STAR of star trek! (funny to think both Nimoy and Stewart came back to Trek in a big way yet not Shatner.. ST09 even sort of foreshowed shatner a couple of times as if it were almost heralding his return further down the line) even the non trekkies would’ve been intrigued to see him back (obviously having caught bits and bobs of TOS and the movies over the years).

Shatner Kirk couldve easily returned as Kirk via alternate reality/time travel stuff like Orci wanted.. and not just shatner but all kinds of fun stuff from Treks history could’ve/should’ve been in the movie – the classic movie Enterprise, some TNG cameos, Klingons/Romulans (maybe nero would be back) maybe even the Guardian of Forever and some of that BTTF2/TrialsTribulation (&now EndGame) style revisiting of previous eps/movies. time travel/alt reality/manyworlds/QM stuff made sense thematically for the 3rd movie as that’s what the JJverse was all about (even ID dealt with it with an alt version of SpaceSeed/TWOK) and the most popular with movies/eps are timetravel/reality stuff (TVH/FC/ST09)

the trailers would’ve been able to show Shatner - probably in one of those TMP style admiral uniforms from STID taking the centre seat to some ACourage (think Ford at end of TFA trailers) and other fun stuff instead of motorbike stunts/rocksongs and trying to be all like Guardians that turned off fans and non fans (and that played before the generational event of Episode VII). hell Shatner must have the most twitter followers of all the Trek stars, websites etc so what you think hed have been tweeting about in the build up to the films release?.. non stop Beyond!

Also look at the 'hooks' in trailers etc the previous films had: ST09 - so many that even average Joe audiences were intrigued (mega Transformers budget version of ‘star trek’, the return of TOS characters/enterprise, their origins/prequel, Nimoy, timetravel/rebooted alt timeline, Lost/MI3 director, amazing trailers/visuals) and first time for the actual TOS era on the big screen and those iconic candy coloured uniforms which was a huge deal for fandom and ID had very intriguing trailers (huge evil 2nd Enterprise in the trailers), the mystery of the villian, new sensation Cumberbatch, plus by then JJ Abrams was like an A list director about to do SW7. Whereas BEY's hook was mainly all about that F&F in space trailer, there was the Ent destruction but fans were already used to that (and almost happened in last movie).second trailer was better but it all looked abit ‘Insurrection.’ (for trekkie hard core there was the NX looking ship and “Enterprise” looking uniforms , plus there were some rumours Krall and his army might be borg related but was just vague rumour) But had they ‘gone Orci ST3’ the hook wouldve been Shatner, time travel/timelines stuff (going back to 1st well liked movie), and probably more emphasis on the 50th anniversary.

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There are a few different factors here, so you can't entirely blame the producers of the new film (though I'll admit I'm not a fan). The first is that Shatner's Kirk was needlessly killed off in 1994 and the second is that Shatner himself is probably quite difficult to deal with and would have either wanted too much money or an undue portion of the script.

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I think I shall blame the producers lol. Shatner Kirk could've been brought back in all kinds of ways via time travel and alternate realities (especially as this new movie series were based around those).. and ok yeh he might be a handful and wanted lots of cash but who says making movies is easy, its just stuff to deal with to get the movie made

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Some more details on Orci's ST3 uncovered

-can you give any more info on your ST3? e.g. was it to be called ‘Beyond?’ was CMarcus in it? would Shatner have been CG de-aged? would he have had a cool outfit/uniform?

boborci
All coming back to me. Marcus was in it. It was not called Beyond. Shatner would’ve been slightly augmented. Bryan Cranston would’ve been the villain. Spoke to him about it, and he seemed open, but we never got farther than that, altough we had great designs for him and his look.

-What species would Cranston’s villain have been? What was his motivation?

boborci
Specifically, let’s not get into too much detail, but thematically, he thought the Kelvin timeline was an abomination and he sought to recreate the universe he felt should exist. Or something:). I’m getting old.

https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/some-new-details-on-orcis-st3.305373/

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Overall summation:

- Written by Roberto Orci without Alex Kurtzman, but rather with Patrick McKay and J. D. Payne.
- It was not called Beyond – imdb lists Star Trek: Into Oblivion as a possible title.
- Orci was tipped to direct.
- Chris Pine, Zachary Quinto, Karl Urban, Zoe Saldana, John Cho, Simon Pegg and the late Anton Yelchin all presumably would have returned
- As well as Alice Eve as Dr Carol Marcus. William Shatner as restored Kirk Prime.
- Orci wanted Bryan Cranston to play the main villain – Enil, leader of Annunaki. There were designs!
- Specifically, let’s not get into too much detail, but thematically, he thought the Kelvin timeline was an abomination and he sought to recreate the universe he felt should exist.
- The Federation, The Vulcans and a new race were racing to get their hands on a time travel device, the Vulcans wanted to get their hands on a time travel device. In the process, the Prime Timeline would have been restored, ending the trilogy, with the return of Kirk Prime.
- There's a chase for doohickey (?!) against time to reset back to the Prime Timeline. This is the last temptation of Kirk and Spock - bring back their parents? In the process, Kirk Prime returns to help resolve the dilemma (Kirk Prime DID return - to help Seth MacFarlane open the Oscars, but anyway...)
- Potential ship designs https://texk.myportfolio.com/star-trek-beyond
- Shatner and Nimoy were initially rumoured to appear as future Kelvin Kirk and Spock, to mark the 50th Anniversary. It doesn’t seem compatible with what Orci has told us, unless this was the idea before Nimoy died: https://trekmovie.com/2014/10/06/rumor-how-to-get-nimoy-and-shatner-into-star-trek-2016-revealed/ I actually like it - we could have got older Kirk & Spock back together on a brand new Enterprise in shiny new uniforms. Also the fact the actors had aged wouldn't have been an issue.

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Paramount could tweak Beyond abit so the Abronath is a time device, the planet is ancient earth and Krall and co are the Annunaki, the Franklin is the NX01 Enterprise, the Yorktown is 23rd century earth, the JJprise being destroyed gets moved near the end of the film attempting to repair the timeline fighting Nero and the Narada, and have Shatner film a few scenes in his backyard with a socially distanced Pine discussing destiny and stuff #ReleasetheOrciCut

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[deleted]

maybe Orci's ST3 would've happened had ID stuck to its summer 2012 date https://moviechat.org/tt1408101/Star-Trek-Into-Darkness/61dfc9867d98d25cbcdd4d3d/If-STID-had-come-out-summer-2012

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Orci’s ST3 was so intriguing sounding I cant see how it wouldn’t have been superior in every way to the standalone/random Beyond .. I mean Shatner back as Kirk! It would’ve been incredible! (like Nimoy in ST09 but even more so as hed have probably been more involved in the story), and the restoring timeline plot/dilemma would’ve just made alot of sense for where events would go in the kelvinverse.. real City on the Edge meets Yesterdays Enterprise stuff (and surely Spock would’ve been be hunted from all sides for his knowledge of the future, even if it was from another timeline). Id probably be still picking/obsessing over the movie and the anniversary now (like I still sort of do with VI/25th) I just wouldn’t have been able to let it go! (whereas with Beyond im just so meh/whatever over it then and now)

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Roberto Orcis ST3 script (previously cowritten ST09/ID) and was set to direct Shatner (and Nimoy) with JJ cast for 50th anniversary. plot tying back to 2009 film, involved kelvin timeline under threat from new villain (Bryan Cranston) wants to revert it back to original prime timeline with uncovered ancient time device. Shatner as Kirk Prime somehow returns (CG deaged to Generations/90s era) with Spock Prime to help Pine/Quinto Kirk&Spock with dilemma to save kelvin timeline or not (therefore saving Vulcan, Spocks mother,Kirks father) bit like City on The Edge of Forever/Yesterdays Enterprise. also Alice Eve was back as Carol Marcus. But Paramount unsure about Orci directing (understandably as never directed before), Nimoy passing, Guardians coming out doing over 700m, wanting something more action orientated like that than focusing on Shatner coming back and dealing with old timeline as opposed to new.. leading to jettisoning Orci and his script, hiring Pegg to quickly come up with new script (in time for 50th) and a new director (Fast guy) 🙁

https://www.facebook.com/SFXmagazine/posts/pfbid0MyFAGJzvAvhEV5FUKCoGa2DRyYeeXi9yjAN2dkePQhSru2LLiAy5oQukspG68BDKl?comment_id=729041932158670&reply_comment_id=559913459092344

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