Isn't one of the points of this show, and BB too, that few, or none, are 100% good? If that's true, when do they become "bad guys?"
I was the kid next door's imaginary friend
Hm. If so, they're going to fail. How does a show about a guy like Jimmy make some larger point about whether there are few to no actual good guys out there in the whole world of seven billion people?
Nah. The first point here is that these characters are capable of both good and bad thinking and actions. The second point is, maybe, that a lot of other people are like this. That's acceptable on its face. Whether it means there are zero to nearly zero "good guys" and "bad guys" out there is a question beyond the scope of a show like this, IMHO.
I think the basic takeaway is that nobody's perfect.
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"You just stroke it all day. You're a hero!"
People are just people. There is good and bad in everyone. Life is not black and white.
shareI don't believe in good or evil people. People do whatever incentivizes their life. The concept of morals only came about due to civilization. The natural state of man is just to survive and reproduce. We're just modified apes with the ability to lie and more complex emotions than our primate cousins.
Good will towards strangers is just as unnatural as sadism. Neither of these traits are beneficial to long term survival in prehistoric conditions.
So it depends one one's definition of 'good' and 'bad'.
The concept of morals only came about due to civilization. The natural state of man is just to survive and reproduce.
We're just modified apes with the ability to lie and more complex emotions than our primate cousins.
Good will towards strangers is just as unnatural as sadism. Neither of these traits are beneficial to long term survival in prehistoric conditions.
Modified apes
Saul is a bad good guy.... or was it a good bad guy?
shareThe "is he a good guy or "is he a bad guy" discussion gets so worn out.
Give me an anti-hero who does some noble things with a side of doing some horrible dirty *beep*
Re: The latter half of the OP's question:
If that's true, when do they become "bad guys?
Can you elaborate on why you question its acceptability?
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I was the kid next door's imaginary friend
Can you elaborate on why you question its acceptability?
I agree with your second point about normalizing racism by the numbing effect of everyday customs and language.
I'm curious as to where you saw this happen in BCS (or BB, as your sig suggests you're very interested in that series, as well.)
In BB, WW literally donned a black hat as he "turned", and at various times when his alter ego went into action.
Is that what you mean? If so, where's the equivalent in BCS?
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I was the kid next door's imaginary friend
In BB, WW literally donned a black hat as he "turned", and at various times when his alter ego went into action.
I think the use of the black hat to proclaim the birth of Heisenberg was intentional on Gilligan's part, as were some other color cues he discussed (on DVD commentary) using to denote the emotional tone of the characters. It was a little too on-the-nose for my liking, but there was a lot of that in BB.
I haven't watched Westworld, or only one or two eps, I should say. What I saw struck me as juvenile, so I dropped HBO, thinking I might go back and binge-watch the series if I was stuck for something interesting. The hat choice scene you describe is the kind of thing that pushes me away, too obvious. That said, there are only a couple of series which haven't done that kind of thing, and sometimes you have to overlook the gaffes if you're going to have anything to watch.
I don't recall the pinkie ring scene in BCS. Would you happen to remember the name of the ep? (I haven't rewatched much of BCS since the season ended. I was surprised to come to this board and find my thread still alive.)
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I was the kid next door's imaginary friend
Re:
Too obvious:
Pinkie ring
End of Season 1 finale:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RipXtO0W7mU 1 min. 38 seconds
I thought that the cinematography gave the ring some prominence, and the way his pinky ring-garbed hand was tapping that wheel, helped visually communicate his turning point to me.
**Have an A1 day**
I always enjoy it when folks who are more observant than I point out things like that. Thanks for the link!
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I was the kid next door's imaginary friend
OT:
When the Spanish Catherine of Aragon died in 1536, both her widower, King Henry VIII, and his fiance', Anne Boleyn, reportedly appeared in public wearing yellow.
To this day, the debate rages on regarding whether this was a disrespectfully festive action on their part, or whether the couple had done so because yellow was a Spanish mourning color.
**Have an A1 day**
All of this, of course, is not so much a condemnation as it is an objective inquiry into cultural symbolism. And I believe that, while "good" and "bad" might be useful as shorthand terms for marketers and entertainment producers, they tend to be counter-productive when it comes to self-reflection in human beings. Particularly, perhaps, when everyone seems to be in such a rush to label themselves as "good".
**Have an A1 day**
give it no thought at all.
Should we consider this acceptable?
I gave it no thought at all with Heisenberg's hat other than it looked good. I also gave it no thought at all in WW other than it looked good. I happen to be a hat collector, so all I think when I see a white or black hat (or any other colour hat) is if I would buy one.
I just don't see it in black and white. The only non verbal representation I saw through colour was the different colour palettes in shows like BB and Hannibal, or the abuse of orange and teal in tv shows to make them look cinematic, or prime colours used by people like Michael Bay or those overblown crime shows. My only reaction to William in WW choosing a white hat was that it would get dirty pretty fast. I didn't automatically think white= good and black = bad. I don't do it with cats, dogs or horses either.
shareI didn't automatically think white= good and black = bad.
Oh I'm sure they do. It's just never occurred to me to think that way.
Woody Harrelson in The Duel. Cool hat. It's white. And he's a bad mofo
http://www.thereelword.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/the-duel-woody-harrelson.png
Yes, Harrelson is one unique cat. He does things his way.
**Have an A1 day**
My only reaction to William in WW choosing a white hat was that it would get dirty pretty fast.
I just don't think in terms of black being bad and white being good. Even when I was little I didn't think of kids at school having black hair or dark eyes as bad, or blondes being good. And the blue and pink thing I just find annoying. I've never liked pink and prefer blue.
shareI just don't think in terms of black being bad and white being good.
Even when I was little I didn't think of kids at school having black hair or dark eyes as bad, or blondes being good. And the blue and pink thing I just find annoying. I've never liked pink and prefer blue.
I'm not sure what you're not understanding. I don't think in terms of black and white. I simply haven't been programmed that way. And getting back to BCS - where is the black hat/white hat scene? I think you're seeing something that isn't there. The brothers represent human frailty, not black is bad and white is good.
shareI simply haven't been programmed that way.
where is the black hat/white hat scene?
Danloki, we meet again! I hope all is well with you.
I think Gilligan/WW's choice of the hat was very intentional, and a tad heavy-handed. It looked silly on him, I thought, but eventually became iconic because of the Legend of Heisenberg. Sometimes the man makes the clothes, not the other way round. WW's choice of the hat, shades, jacket combo looked like what a straight science teacher might think would seem tough and dangerous to a real hard-ass like Tuco. So, maybe Gilligan meant it tongue-in-cheek. Regardless, it eventually became shorthand for "criminal mastermind", in the show, and in Pop culture.
Getting back to the original question about the racial implications of black and white. I think that most ethnic groups, regardless of skin color, might characterize light as good and dark as bad, simply because of humankind's instinctual fear of what could be hidden in darkness. What we see in the light can scare us, but what might lurk in the darkness can inspire terror limited only by our imaginations. I'd guess that in racially-charged cultures the meaning might be a blend of the primal and cultural.
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I was the kid next door's imaginary friend
What we see in the light can scare us, but what might lurk in the darkness can inspire terror limited only by our imaginations.
Happy New Year, Marlon Gearing up for the new season?
I thought the hat was intentional as in the style, not in the colour as such. It's a cool hat and would have looked just as bad ass in green or blue. Now if he had worn a Montechristi that would have looked out of place.
Total hat nerd here.💃
It's a cool hat and would have looked just as bad ass in green or blue.
I quite clearly stated I was interested in the colour symbology in BB. Did you miss that? I'm simply not an SJW that sees black = bad and white = good.
Now tell me all about the colour of Jimmy's suits in your mind and how that's racist.
Jesus christ.
danloki.
Why are you getting defensive about this?
**Have an A1 day**
Now tell me all about the colour of Jimmy's suits in your mind and how that's racist.
I'm simply not an SJW that sees black = bad and white = good.
I missed the memo where I was supposedly threatened by some hipster SJW third wave feminist.
shareI missed the memo where I was supposedly threatened by some hipster SJW third wave feminist.
your arguments as to your fairness and non-bigoted worldview
You've disappointed me.
What arguments about my fairness and worldview? I simply said that unlike you I don't see black as bad and white as good.
You amused me.
As I grow older, I've come to learn that there is no good or bad, exclusively. Both can be found in everyone. However, I think there comes a point, where we choose to be mostly one or the other.
share