The opening scene in the pilot was horrifying!
What gives the grandma the right to brainwash a little girl that sex is bad? She was a Catholic bi**ch with conservative values and learned the girl to associate pre-marriage sex with shame.
I hate her!
Wow, just cause you have grandma issues, no reason to take it out on a fictional grandmother. Lots of people believe you should wait for marriage. Doesn't mean it's bad, per se, just often a mistake. Especially given Xos history.
Those who bring sunshine into the lives of others cannot keep it from themselves.
Grannies can be overbearing, especially when it comes to religion. Some will thump their bibles and others will throw down tarot cards. Sad really. At least she's not a Muslim, LOL!
shareFunny how you insist you aren't Boland while you use the same stupid phrases and the same ignorant hate speech.
Let me guess, you have grandmother issues which is why you stalk, bully, and harass senior women on this board.
Those who bring sunshine into the lives of others cannot keep it from themselves.
SarahSunshine replaced mother issues with grandmother issues so she may have aging issues.
And there are people who can help with that because this is a wonderful world.Poor Wiccan WitchEmergency to the pool!
Everyone knows you live your life doing nothing but harassing older women.
Sad, really.
Really sad.
Goodness is the only investment that never fails.
You must be senile, confusing me with someone else.
I don't appreciate your tone either. It's unfortunate, but it's obvious that you have no intention of being kind to others.
Now please go away.S h i t a s s t w i nDead in the water.
I kind of agree with the sentiment behind your post. The very beginning act was basically a slap in the face to the very concept of women's sexual agency, with this whole notion of a woman's chastity being linked to her purity. BUT, I do think the show has dealt with it well enough. We saw that young Jane, thanks to her friends in school, did end up realising that sex didn't work the way her grandmother told her and her virginity wasn't some flower. The grandmother proved how flawed a human being she was when she admitted to Jane that, despite all her faith and Catholic values, she did ask her daughter to have an abortion. And that was the show's saving grace. That it was brave enough to show a very realistic thing that's been happening for a long time.
Also, I don't think you need to be religious in any way to brainwash and slut-shame your daughters. That's the way our patriarchal society works in general. Your name calling is unnecessarily over-the-top and offensive.
I've got a remote and I'm not afraid to use it.
http://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lv779sa0bV1r76lino1_500.jpg
"Don't you dare Google me!"
I've got a remote and I'm not afraid to use it.
We saw that young Jane, thanks to her friends in school, did end up realising that sex didn't work the way her grandmother told her and her virginity wasn't some flower. The grandmother proved how flawed a human being she was when she admitted to Jane that, despite all her faith and Catholic values, she did ask her daughter to have an abortion.I am sorry but I have to ask:
She maybe didn't a little harsh but there is nothing wrong with teaching young girls to wait till marriage. I think Jane has grown up into a bright an focus young women who know that waiting is right for her. She respects herself enough to know that just not any man will do but one who will love her and only for the rest of their lives. A promise so deep and true who wouldn't want like that. And Alba is from another time and culture too where things were done differently and I know things are different but people have values and beliefs that are important to them. So you may not understand it or like it but there wouldn't be a show without Jane not waiting.
shareI did cringe at the start with the flower, but you have you remember that the show is a satire and is thoroughly feminist at its core by having the heroine take the patriarchal notion of virginity, own it and make it her own choice. Because the other, more common extreme of boys and society pressuring girls into sex while they're still chidren is just as patriarchal.
There is a great quote that encapsulates all this: "Conservative society views women's bodies as private property, and progressive society - as public property." Frankly there is no society on this planet where women own their own bodies and sexuality completely. It shames them for having sex too early, too late, too often, not often enough, with too much enthusiasm, not enough enthusiasm, with too many partners, not enough partners, etc. etc.
I love the scene in the church when Jane tells her grandmother that she'll have sex with Michael, and Xo yells: "Hallelujah!" This made me LOL because she's exactly like my super liberal mother who was begging me to get laid all through my teens thinking it'd solve my personal problems...
My Mom was Catholic and she gave me some wise advice.
Was glad I waited until I married.
And that was my choice. No one else's.
She maybe didn't a little harsh but there is nothing wrong with teaching young girls to wait till marriage.
SOOOO many things wrong with it, in fact:
A) A person might never marry - not every one is made for that lifestyle.
B) What if s/he is gay and same sex marriage isn't available where they live?
C) How do you define marriage these days if long term live-in relationships now have the same legal status as official marriage in most developed countries?
D) How do you know that you're even sexually compatible with your future spouse without trying it out?
E) It creates an unnecessary level of suppression and neuroticism to already complicated female sexuality, which can cause sexual problems for both spouses. Many women can't relax enough to orgasm because of being brainwashed into feeling guilty about sexuality while growing up.
F) This attitude frequently makes young people rush into marriage just because they're sexually frustrated. BAD reason for getting married.
G) Why on Earth would anyone want to deal with the mess, awkwardness and pain of a first time on what is supposed to be the most memorable and romantic night of the couple's life?
H) Exactly which sexual activity is forbidden until the wedding night? How do you define it? A person can be sexually active for YEARS and get all the orgasms they want while still being a technical virgin. What the hell is the point in that case?
I)If you strip away all the patriarchal notions of women's bodies as property, paternity and no reliable birth control when this tradition was invented - you're left with a concept that makes just as much sense as 'Don't eat cake until you're married!'.
still better than sleeping with each guy you had a relationship that went nowhere.
shareNo, according to feminism, being a slut and ending up 34 with cats is "empowering".
Please excuse any typos, this was typed on an iPad
Oooh, exactly 34 cats? You mean, only 33 wouldn't qualify you as a 'slut'?😂
sharelooool, hilarious xD
shareYoure female brain misread that. There isn't even a typo that would play as having referred to 34 cats.
Please excuse any typos, this was typed on an iPad
No, but I was mocking your lack of grammatical coherence because your sentence made no sense. You might've been aiming for something like "get to 34 y.o. and live alone with a bunch of cats", but it was clearly too much to muster.
My feminine brain has allowed me to adhere to proper grammar in 4 languages. Surely it's not that hard to troll in coherent sentences in 1.
Im sure you will not end up with cats with your ability to speak 3 variations of language for browns. Thatll help you be the first female Steve Jobs.
Please excuse any typos, this was typed on an iPad
What makes that scene even worse is Xo sitting idly by and only chirping in humorously! Who would let their child be brainwashed like this right in front of them?
I also feel like in reality someone as logical and research-savvy as Jane would never buy into it once she becomes an adult. Surely by age 23 she would've discovered feminist theory, and that the whole concept of female virginity before marriage was invented just for men to have some assurance of paternity, and has been used as a brutal tool to control women for 1000s of years. Also, she's portrayed as being comfortable with her sexuality to the point of wanting to be a writer of romance (euphemism for female porn), skinny-dipping with her insanely fit bf in a well-lit public pool (!) and having oral sex dreams. A person who does all this is just not one who hangs up symbolic flowers by her bedside.
The big irony is that the actress playing Alba is a super sexy and thoroughly modern senior lady, who even commented on something like this already being passe during her Flower Power youth. LOL!
Jaime Camil looked similarly horrified when a young Latina interviewer told him that her family used the flower metaphor on her too!
It was comedy, but we found out that Jane didn't really wait because of Grandma. She waited because she didn't want to risk becoming a single mother. By the time she decided it didn't matter, circumstances were so complicated she decided she may as well carry it through and wait. She tried a couple of times to lose her virginity, but when it didn't happen, she saw it as a sign. She's definitely not waiting forever.
We also see that the grandmother had sex before marriage, and projected her shame onto her daughter, and her anxiety onto Jane. So, the situation here is a grandmother who had sex before marriage, with a man not the man she ultimately married, and she was shamed by the community. Then her daughter was active sexually at a young age, and became a single mom. It's natural the grandma would try to put the breaks on with Jane. This was a smart young girl who loved school, and grandma didn't want her to be sidetracked with single parenthood, which can run in families.
I think the mother doesn't take it seriously because the mother has her own relationship with Jane, gives Jane a different message and opinion, and Jane can make her own choice. Jane was a smart girl early. She had plans for her future, and I think thought it was best to fit sex into marriage - that's the organized way to do it :) - while focusing on her other goals. And Jane has made it clear she's not afraid of sex, and waiting til marriage was ultimately her own choice.
She had plans for her future, and I think thought it was best to fit sex into marriage - that's the organized way to do it :) - while focusing on her other goals.
That's what I thought as well - that it's more a part of her control freak personality than religion. Safe sex adds so many new things to worry about - it can take a while to find the most suitable method of contraception for example.
"I'm doing it for religion" goes down better in conversation than "I'm a control freak"...
You missed the whole point of the show. There is a conversation between Alba and Xo in an episode I can't remember where Xo tells her mother to stop slut shaming. There is also an episode where Alba admits she did not wait for marriage. It's all part of an underlying message that sex isn't something that should be shamed, but often is. For that reason, the show is positively brilliant for including that scene.
Alba has her issues, but is learning to be less judgmental through lessons from her children. This is a great story. The show doesn't promote slut shaming. The show doesn't even support pro-life arguments. The show doesn't support militant Christians. The show actually does an amazing job commentating and satirizing all of these things.
Yeah, and the show's pretty laisse-fair approach towards abortion (especially in pill form!) is pretty refreshing too. It was presented very pragmatically and with no moralising.
That's why it's great to have a female show-runner: she gets female sexuality and its social context. In fact, on a level which pushes the boundaries of network TV (Jane's wet dream comes to mind).
Even though the show jokes about the Bechdel test, the show runners do a really good job of not having the women get into cat fights about a man, or become obsessed with the man they love. For example, Petra wants Rafael, but at the end of the day she wants him to love her and if he doesn't, she'll take a pass(unless she thinks there's a genuine chance somewhere). If a relationship of Rogelio's makes Xiomara feel insecure, she'll process it, but she has other stuff going on with her life. That's the thing. We know where these people stand, romantically, but it's not the be all and end all for the women any more than it is for the men. I like that everybody, in their own way, moved on when they were single.
shareYes, it is a deeply feminist show in many ways (without ever openly lecturing on the subject).
The only component that I wish was present among the myriad of other feminist things are telenovela-style love scenes. When I first discovered how incredibly female friendly their style is, I just about wept from joy. They're 100% free from the male gaze and involve lots of slow, sensual foreplay and intimacy. And I mean REALLY slow... I clocked one at 11 whole mins of foreplay!! All with zero objectifying female nudity!
I only wish that could happen on American mainstream TV.