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Birdmant7's Replies
I don't get the Hate or dislike you have for this show?. I mean if its that difficult for you to understand it where you require as you say "Cliff Notes" then why continue to even watch it?. When Rod Sterling started with Twilight Zone, it didn't have a mass appeal either, but it grew over the period because it challenged to THINK and reflect maybe and not to be spoon fed like or all the mundane shows that couldn't compete and that's why it became a classic and to this day Twilight Zone is respected as one of the best TV shows ever made. The same applies to "Star Trek" where Gene Roddenbury's father was apologizing to his friends or neighbors for his son's work to those who also felt the show way far fetched and yet even after cancelled in just 3 seasons then it was in syndication that it became appreciated and grew to the giant franchise that it has today.
Not every show has to be so linear and so clear for the audience to digest as its instant gratification. "American Gods" is touching on the very issues in a metaphoric way to point the current pop culture's media brain washed society that is causing people like YOU to find it a chore to THINK, because maybe most people don't even take the time to READ a book. This show is all about symbols of past versus present superficial, clues for the audience to seat back and maybe think and investigate as to who is these Characters like Mr. Wednesday represent and what is their goal here and why does a character like Mr. World is threatened by Mr. Wednesday.
I loved this show from the very first episode because its compelling in its original structure in what its trying to say, I never needed cliff notes either; to me its a timely original piece of art that is looking at our current culture and what its going on from different perspective.
Here is a suggestion, there are some great videos on Youtube you can watch like "American gods episode 1 breakdown":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNNSbHRUdDs&t=9
I think you are trying to make linear sense of this story and its not to be understood right away. The scenes are set up to be disjointed and peculiar for a reason. I like to make one suggestion to you, there are videos on Youtube that is breakdown each episdoe: try with the first episode and see if that helps you to make more sense of the questions you may have: "american gods episode 1 breakdown" :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNNSbHRUdDs&t=2s
" quite intelligent'? ..Lol
I am sorry I don't see that about Laura at all, intelligent in what way?
She is an impulsive with her decisions and being a depressed and sad person as she is also clouds her thinking on her decisions making, such as suggesting to Shadow to rob the casino, her reason being UNHAPPY?. that is not what an intelligent person does. She believes in nothing and that again is part of her being lost, not that we all have to believe in something but she just seems like she goes through life like life owes her something and she is disappointment that she never got hers. One of the best scene was when she was having an argument with Anubis, when she found out she is dead, and her reluctance to accept it, and Anubis said: "Death is not a debate", because she thinks she can talk or manipulate her way out of anything.
I just saw an interview with the actress (Emily Browning) and I don't know if its the character or just the person playing this character but I didn't like Emily either at all, I found her to be very much like Laura. She was raving about how she loves playing this person who is bad and detached?. I found that to be even more weird, she also is not all that with that big head and skinny little body, again I don't know why would Shadow would fall for someone like her ?.. I could see Shadow with Audry but not with Laura, I actually like Audry in the 4th episode because she was very real about what she said.
Thanks for this post and I feel the same so far on this site versus IMDB board that were shut down. I think the boards on IMDB just became too infested with insults and people who were posting the most mundane and stupid topics. You couldn't have a adult discussion about a movie or a tv show without someone insulting you because they didn't agree with you. I think it was a good time that IMDB shut it down, it was time to end all that and I hope this board doesn't get that way.
I totally agree with all your comments about the last episode; it was the most incoherent episode I have ever watched in the entire 6 season of Homeland. I posted something similar about Quinn and not even memorial service for a guy who just saved the President's life?. And Carrie's reaction even in the car when Quinn died was odd to me and just didn't make sense how they just jumped into weeks later?. Who were the other parties involved in the attempt to kill the President?. If Dar was involved how did he come to warn Carrie about the attack?.
It was like we missed an entire second act and these writers just threw those scenes at us to just go along with it. I thought it was really an insult to the audience and very sloppy way to end a season that started good with some interesting premise and yet the ending was like you were in a limbo and confused.
I just read your comments on Quinn but sorry I never saw Quinn as a "action hero/Jack Bauer type character" ?. This show has some action true, but Quinn came in as a kind of jerk, he was known to be this dark type of CIA agent who ran more complex secret ops that yes involved killing people. However, if you recall he was more of a tormented person, a loner who wanted out for something more and normal life, he wanted to also leave the CIA and get away from people like Dar.
His farewell letter to Carry at the last episode of season 5 and what he shared about darkness was really what summed up Quinn to more of a three dimensional character than your poor comic book action hero comparison to "Jack Baur", who is just laughable. I don't think and am sure many people will also agree that Homeland has ever been viewed as an action show, yes even though action has been part of the stories that most of them never ended as they way other shows do. I also don't agree that " Quinn's paralysis, constantly stretched the limits of credibility"?.. we are way way passed Carrie's biopolar issues and if you watched season 6 again, you will realize Quinn also changed his attitude about his situation to learn and accept it, that's why he stopped doing drugs and went on to do what he does or what he knows best with his disability. Whatever deals that producers made with the actor "Rupert Friend" to end his character again was something we'll never know I guess?.., because if you watch his other interviews, he said that he was done at the season 5, but it was a surprise he was asked to come back again season 6.
I don't think his disabilities would have made the slightest difference to the hard core audience and fans of this character "Quinn". This season 6 started out really good but it took a weird turn toward the end and last episode was not only incoherent was poorly done, it was just not the usual quality story telling that Homeland usually displayed.
"It's driven him somewhat mad" ?...Lol
I think he was mad from the first season when he went to Wendy's laptop; his obsession with Axe just got worse this season to come up with better plan doesn't involve him. This is a well written show, those scenes with Chuck in his martial art classes were kind of hint and clues that in season 2 Chuck is just learning how to be more sneaky. He did the same thing with Wendy and Ira and his own Dad, he is just using anyone he can with lies and charm to serve his agenda. How he managed to save his job with AG and to turn the tables around on the running candidate for the Senator's office about his gay son was another way that the writers showed how ruthless and low Chuck would stoop to. I find him utterly a weak pathetic character and a lot of it ties to his childhood, where he was probably bullied?. I have never liked him or Wendy, not to compare and Axe can a be very mean ruthless too, but for some reason he is not as sick as Chuck or consumed with hate and revenge. Although that may change next season and I have a feeling he will find the info on Chuck that he wants to expose him to where Chuck's sex life could even go viral.
I was not talking about Axe or defending him?..
I am just disgusted that Chuck would risk his father and Ira's money to go after his own personal agenda and revenge. Did you miss the last episode or you just want to defend Chuck?
You really think what Chuck did was right and justified?,,,,again forget what Axe did, focus on what Chuck with other people's money. Ira who really trusted a friend to lose what he considered to be his way to get out of the lawfirm, after being a friend to Chuck when he was going through the mess he was in, did Ira deserve that? . I don't care much for his Father because he did the same to Axe by moving the location of the Casino and to the people of that town but Ira didn't deserve to be collateral damage, so yes you can harp on what Axe did but my point was about what a scum Chuck is even compare to Axe, I still think more of Axe than a little Weasel like Chuck.
Whatever Chuck's evil plan it payed off to get Axe but I am glad his father and Ira finally saw what a piece of sht he really is. That scene with his Dad and Ira where he is justifying his actions was like listening to a criminal insane justifying his actions?!. I don't know Chuck thought in his head that what he did was going to sound right to his dad and Ira?...its almost like a sociopath whose reasoning is so selfish that he thinks whatever he did that caused some major financial damage to two people was justified for a his personal cause of getting Axe, and on top of it they still need to help him to get him elected to become Governor?...he just screwed two people out of their money and dream but he is expecting them to continue helping him?..Lol
Chuck proved this season that he is worse than the people he claims to be criminal and a weasel at most. I think Axe is right on about Chuck's insecurities or proving he is a man and the distance he is willing to go to feel that power he desperately lacks. I think Wendy and him deserve each other, they are both just very sick in their own way and that also ties into their sexual S&M too.
Well, you were partially correct on the payouts but as I said before the risk Chuck took did back fire on him with both his father and Ira, rightly so because it was a very selfish act and it really shows what a scum bag Chuck really is. He almost thinks like a criminal where he justifies his reasoning of what he did to be worth it, not just to Axe but to his father and Ira. I have more respect for the likes of Axe than Chuck, at least Axe faced what was coming as an adult and realized he did make a mistake and got played by a weasel that he underestimated.
Interesting but its not something that was even hinted in the show, I still find it strange that Chuck would take such a risk and regardless of the lawsuits and fines to recover his money. it doesn't quiet fit the character that Chuck has been since season 1.
"Sociopath seems to imply that someone that lacks a conscience is doing something for their own benefit."
So let me understand this in your little universe what is a Sociopath?. So what Chuck's father did by moving the location of the Casino. Then Chuck who is now aware of it and let it pass because it serves his purpose to gain higher office which is clearly "doing something for their own benefit" is all ethical and not considered Sociopath?...does sociopath have to be a killer ?..or some weasel like Chuck who shields his unethical behavior with his Attorney general status?.
If you can't see how the logic of your own statement applies to what I stated above and how this show (Billions) has been trying to perhaps imply and ask the same question to its audience, then you are missing the point. There is a larger picture other than show, its phenomenon that is happening in US culture known as "Greed", even Steven Hawkins recently wrote about the future of humanity that is been destroyed by this Greed, because greed is blinded by conscience. Chuck's lust of greed to power is even more disgusting than Axe inside trading that is more about the rush than greed. I don't know if you only select what you want to see, as you did in Homeland show, but if you pay attention and watch every move Chuck is making is very self-serving, he is even playing Wendy because now he needs her at his side for this new post at the higher office.
You know if you don't like my post or replies why don't you Piss off some where else with your BS remarks. This is a free country and what I said about JEWS was not a rant is the truth that probably touches a cord with a JEW like YOU. This a free country and people express themselves and I didn't insult the Jews, but its a well known fact globally how Jewish families all keep the wealth in their community for a person like you to take that as an insult says a lot about you, in case you didn't know 90% of Hollywood is JEWISH and that has been a huge issue for people who can't get a brake in that industry because they don't have Jewish connection. Chuck and his Dad and Wendy are a typical of the upper crust of the Jewish New York.
I think Chuck Rhoades has proven this season to bend the law to his means and that to me is kind of a sociopath and more dangerous. What his father did by changing the location of that Casino did more harm to those people of that town, lets say if Axe had done that then Chuck would do everything in his power to get Axe arrested for manipulating things but when it serves his agenda to go to gain higher office then its ok. He is for sure a "disgusting weasel" whose every move is manipulate others, including his own wife and staff. I don't see Axe as a hero but I kind of see him and those traders as Dollar Bill described what it meant to be a "Outlaw", they want to make money by doing things that are outside the law but also very hard to prove due to the nature of the stock market, but one thing I do give Axe is that he does not intentionally want to just hurt people to gain power and that comes from Chuck's own insecurities too and he was probably bullied as a little boy. I think what brought Wendy and Chuck together was mostly most Jewish families look to pair up their families with status and the fact Wendy also serves purpose in Chuck's sexual fetish also play a great part of their socalled marriage, to me Wendy is just ask sick and vindictive, liar and manipulative as Chuck, they deserve one another. As far Axe's clothes, I think he is rich enough to wear what he wants, not only do tech Ceo's dress that way.
I was not Dumping on the show? WTF are you talking about?
I thought it was a good season too but I didn't care for how the finale was
put together, it just felt rushed and not well put together like other seasons prior to it.
I actually thought this season had so many interesting stories from the 1st episode and
it got even more interesting on how the black site and fake news was revealed.
So you liked it, good for you. I don't agree with most of your points but that your
opinion and how you feel to make sense of disjointed parts that you make an analogy
to the "Economic Meltdown"? . I didn't see the president to be that traumatized after the 6 weeks
later forward, infact the opposite and she first hired Carrie for something but really manipulated
her to do the dirty work and we all saw how she sat in office and refuse to see Carrie, unless you
call being traumatized?...
Homeland was never really about cliff hanger endings and this is what I loved about it, but if you anything about TV shows, when any show reaches past the 5th season they have to really come up with new things or find a way to end it. Alan Ball, from "Six feet Under" said that any show to last over 5 seasons that is really tough and it really has to got to be as good as first season. I felt the finale started good but that little after "Six weeks later" break it became something else, it was like we missed a second act and felt weird incoherent as Homeland I remember it was never that. So yes you can tell yourself all the reasons of "bullet-riddled car" and how it all will take time to make sense but that's where the parts don't fit in the finale, so yes it pushed the riddle to wait to the next season which to me is just cheap shot for a show like Homeland, they never had to do that before.
I didn't care for S5 that much either, I think there was a just a gap of how Carrie could not find Quinn in two years to be a just a lame BS in writing. Also that whole charade with Alison, who was the worst actor in Homeland, just went on and on too long, at the end she got killed in a trunk of a car that was even more pathetic. You are right the show has become a soap opera, I have lost in Carrie because its always about her illness and meds and how emotionally screwed up she is, what she did in S4, blowing up that wedding party, then seducing that boy and how he got killed showed how careless she is and that is why I have very little sympathy for her or Saul, I can't buy into Carrie being the victim, these are just very immoral warped people who dont even trust each other as their back is turned.
S6: yes it was more interesting in parts, it had a great premise with the first episode, several stories running and that was very well written. The whole conflict between Dara Dol and new President was where it got more interesting.
I am sorry I just didn't care for the finale last night and that was kind lame and rush job for Homeland.
I have never liked Wendy's character, she is a manipulative and a liar, just a bitch.
there was a few things that didn't make sense with this finale and yes how did Saul survive was one of them?...
Hi Rorikon
I just watched the finale and then read your post and i couldn't agree more. This was a very incoherent finale for HOMELAND?.. I don't understand why go to all the trouble to bring back Quinn from the dead of the last season and then kill him in the next season?!
That whole time jumping forward six weeks later was also really what screwed up the this last episode, you would expect a character like Quinn with 6 seasons in this show would deserve a memorial service or something more. Quinn was just as important and a pillar of this show (Homeland) as Carrie is. I was just as surprised that yes Carrie (Claire) didn't cry or mourn for Quinn as she did in the past; there was just something really off and different about this finale, where we still don't know who was behind the assassination of the new president; why is the radio guy "Brett O'Keefe" still on the air?, how come they arrested a Saul and not him? what was his involvement with the black box site who were making all this fake lies and videos?.
The ending of this season finale was very distorted after Quinn's death and six weeks later bs.
I think all the fans will all agree with you and miss the Quinn character and I doubt this show will ever be the same and it maybe time to end Homeland next season.