MovieChat Forums > Politics > We Were Lied To

We Were Lied To

posted 6 months ago by warrior-poet (1333)
74 replies | jump to latest

https://www.thefallofminneapolis.com/

Much of this was known back then, but not amalgamated in this way. And even after viewing this, including the original unmanipulated corner's report (that shows no physical damage or signs of neck trauma, but does show a dangerous dose of fentanyl and a serious heart condition), extended bodycam footage, and even now with it revealed that the cops called in medical assistance within a minute of Floyd being put on the ground, etc., I still maintain that Chauvin and the others were guilty of negligence. Sitting on him while he claimed medical distress, even if he was faking it, was still negligence in my view, even if it was sanctioned procedure. But it also was NOT murder. To a certain extent Chauvin was railroaded by politics. He also in part brought it onto himself with his own actions. So did Floyd.

The real story here isn't Floyd and Chauvin, however. It's the behavior of those who reacted to it.

Update: my ultimate point here in case it wasn't clear is that as usual we have two sides stuck in a prison of two ideas. One side wants to put the blame entirely on Floyd, the other side entirely on Chauvin. But the truth is that both are to blame. I'd say about 70/30.

It's a Rorschach test for the state of our modern society. And every one of you failed it.
_________________________________________
Never believe or disbelieve. Always question. Rebuke bias, a.k.a. groupthink, a.k.a. ideology, the bane of skeptical, logical reason.

[–] Thaisticks (2628) 6 months ago

Fking libertarian cant. You've got a "Question Authority" bumper sticker somewhere, don't you!? Lol.

[–] ShadowHunter (814) 6 months ago

look at his stupid ass tagline. he thinks hes an intellectual.

[–] Satan2016 (23649) 6 months ago

Fucking anti-intellectual Commie!

[–] Thaisticks (2628) 6 months ago

Wrong. His tag line would fit right in with the "1984" thought police. You think it's "anti-authority" but it is a perfect example of 1984 doublespeak.

[–] WhoToTrust (977) 6 months ago

You certainly were.

https://youtu.be/NCjQq3W2Yf4?si=nEQ6RxhODSrLIhI7

[–] warrior-poet (1333) 6 months ago

That too. Although the bad behavior of one individual taking advantage during the chaos doesn't excuse billions in damage and 26 killed, nor the deification of a criminal who brought about his own death with the assistance of negligent cops.
_________________________________________
Never believe or disbelieve. Always question. Rebuke bias, a.k.a. groupthink, a.k.a. ideology, the bane of skeptical, logical reason.

[–] WhoToTrust (977) 6 months ago

And now you're just lying to yourself. Sad!

[–] warrior-poet (1333) 6 months ago

Yeah, you're going to have to explain that one. I want no less than 2,000 words before Monday morning.
_________________________________________
Never believe or disbelieve. Always question. Rebuke bias, a.k.a. groupthink, a.k.a. ideology, the bane of skeptical, logical reason.

[–] WhoToTrust (977) 6 months ago

You first, since your word salad response was of course so devoid of actual reality.

[–] warrior-poet (1333) 6 months ago

You still have yet to explain how anything I said is "devoid of reality" when in fact its empirically factual. Let's try a different approach with a series of questions and see what you don't agree with.

Below are the points I've made above:

1) Floyd's own life choices led to the situation that culminated in his death
1a) He had a long history of criminal activity, and the police were called due to exactly that
1b) His heart was a ticking time bomb due to extensive drug abuse, with an artery completely blocked

2) The cops that arrived on scene, including Chauvin, completely ignored his medical distress
2a) Their callous treatment of someone they'd already restrained imposed undue stress on his heart
3b) This extraneous physical stress contributed to and almost certainly hastened his death

3) The video you showed and correctly pointed out was subterfuge in no way directly led to:
3a) Billions in property damage due to mass rioting, looting and wonton vandalism by large mobs
3b) 26 deaths during the 2020 summer riots

What about any of that is delusional?
_________________________________________
Never believe or disbelieve. Always question. Rebuke bias, a.k.a. groupthink, a.k.a. ideology, the bane of skeptical, logical reason.

[–] WhoToTrust (977) 6 months ago

Suggesting that EVERYone failed YOUR Rorschach.

[–] warrior-poet (1333) 6 months ago

hy·per·bo·le ( hº-pûr“b…-l¶) n. 1. A figure of speech in which exaggeration is used for emphasis or effect.

Although barely. Simple empirical observation reveals that nearly every poster on this board picks a side in lieu of nuanced reality, and they do so not only on this topic but almost all conceivable topics, adhering to party and/or ideological tribal lines. Having said that, my "every one of you" comment was in the OP, not in what you replied to. You suggested that my follow-up posts were devoid of reality and have yet to explain that claim in simple terms, much less in detail. You then proceeded to completely ignore the factually verifiable items I laid out.
_________________________________________
Never believe or disbelieve. Always question. Rebuke bias, a.k.a. groupthink, a.k.a. ideology, the bane of skeptical, logical reason.

[–] WhoToTrust (977) 6 months ago

YOUR fault alone that YOU said what YOU said.

[–] warrior-poet (1333) 6 months ago

Ooooookayyyy. And I stand by what I said. SMH.
_________________________________________
Never believe or disbelieve. Always question. Rebuke bias, a.k.a. groupthink, a.k.a. ideology, the bane of skeptical, logical reason.

[–] Bubbathegut (17258) 6 months ago

All he had to do was sit in the car like a normal person.

[–] chilone (17319) 6 months ago

^^^THIS^^^

[–] SandyR (7459) 6 months ago

He was having an anxiety attack as a result of the overdose. It is difficult to sit still in that circumstance.

[–] OffTheBoatPsycho (676) 6 months ago

As far as I'm concerned, he's doing decades in jail for the racially motivated murder/lynching of a black man. I don't think that is true at all. I think it was negligence also in regard to the unconscious neck restraint he was trained to use. Had his knee on too long and didn't check on him. Something like that.

Funny that all kinds of people can question a verdict and publicly state they disagree with verdicts like Rittenhouse or Zimmerman. Celebs, politicians, students, activists etc. You can do it at work, school or on social media. You disagree with the Chauvin verdict and you either be quiet about it or face enormous backlash and labeled white supremacist and racist along with supporting murder of black people.

[–] ShadowHunter (814) 6 months ago

do you workout or have access to dumbbells?

[–] ShadowHunter (814) 6 months ago

do you always post such blatant lies?

https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-george-floyd-autopsy-new-892530421961

you are just posting junk.

-the dosage wasnt lethal at all to someone who was a user. none of the experts agree with you https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-george-floyd-overdose-death/fact-check-no-evidence-drug-overdose-was-main-cause-of-death-for-george-floyd-in-2020-idUSL1N3241XJ/

-thats awesome they called for medical assistance! maybe dont put 90lbs on the back of his neck and constrict his chest and breathing

-he was cuffed surrounded by three officers.. he was zero danger.

if you hold a pillow on someones face til they die is it negligence or murder?

[–] tvfan (8767) 6 months ago

You are citing old sources like the other lemmings in the Chauvin board.

The latest autopsy report and court findings confirmed that he died from an OD from several drugs, not Chauvin.

It ruled out asphyxiation and strangulation as the cause of the death.

He also had a predisposition to heart disease, several blocked arteries, high blood pressure, and vascular issues.

[–] ShadowHunter (814) 6 months ago

citation?

there is no, "latest autopsy". warriorpoet just posted lies and you bought them.

https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-george-floyd-autopsy-new-892530421961

link me this new latest autopsy?

[–] warrior-poet (1333) 6 months ago

Uhhh.. except I didn't say anything like that. I never said anything about a "latest" coroner report. I quite literally said most of this was known back then, and that this movie just amalgamates it more cohesively. I also did NOT say he died from an overdose. You're conflating what TVFan just said with what I said: that a combination of conditions led to his death.

However, the drug levels in his system were dangerous and he had a serious heart condition, with one artery almost completely blocked. He was experiencing hypertension and a problem breathing LONG before he was on the ground. Did pinning him down escalate his medical crisis? I'm almost certain it did. Would he have at least lived longer if Chauvin hadn't knelt on his neck? It's speculative, and we can't know for sure, but I'd put it at a high probability. But that's not murder. It's negligence.

I made these exact same arguments back then. This movie just presents in a clearer manner with a lot more information to corroborate that conclusion. Chauvin fucked up and deserves some time for negligent homicide (not murder). Floyd's own actions put him in that position, his history of drug abuse damaging his heart to a state of frailty. Those things together proved lethal.

And your comments here about my post are the actual point of my OP. It's not about Floyd and Chauvin.

It's about people like you.
_________________________________________
Never believe or disbelieve. Always question. Rebuke bias, a.k.a. groupthink, a.k.a. ideology, the bane of skeptical, logical reason.

[–] ShadowHunter (814) 6 months ago

my response was to tv fan, who did talk about "The latest autopsy report". i am not reading what else you wrote if you cannot figure out how the reply system works. And are replying to my arguements i gave to what TVfan said, acting as if i said that to you.

[–] warrior-poet (1333) 6 months ago

I quote: "warriorpoet just posted lies and you bought them." Nothing I stated was a lie. 'nuff said.
_________________________________________
Never believe or disbelieve. Always question. Rebuke bias, a.k.a. groupthink, a.k.a. ideology, the bane of skeptical, logical reason

[–] ShadowHunter (814) 6 months ago

he brought up the OD, but added "latest autopsy report". as you said

Uhhh.. except I didn't say anything like that. I never said anything about a "latest" coroner report

yes i know tv fan did. nuff said.

[–] tvfan (8767) 6 months ago

I didn't have to read his OP, this information is a month old.

Check the Chauvin board, it has all been posted/linked there.
As I stated, several others on that board were also citing old sources.

Oh, btw, AP is a leftist misinformation/disinformation source. All your internet scriptures and false propaganda will not change the facts.

[–] ShadowHunter (814) 6 months ago

stop being lazy. my job is not to find your sources for you.

link the "latest autopsy report" lazy bones or admit you have no evidence.

[–] tvfan (8767) 6 months ago

You poor crybaby, are you begging me to spoon-feed you?

[–] ShadowHunter (814) 6 months ago

Christopher Hitchens "what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." . you are dismissed.

ohh did you know i found out your dad was a pedophile? i wont provide evidence though. you have to go find it yourself. just "trust me bro"

[–] ShadowHunter (814) 6 months ago

i did try and find it. it doesnt exist. i cannot find what you madeup in your head. so provide your evidence you lazy sack.

[–] tvfan (8767) 6 months ago

Not only are you a crybaby whining and begging all the time, but you are also an incompetent imbecile.

[–] ShadowHunter (814) 6 months ago

even warriorpoet agrees there s no new autopsy idiot

also as i said your dads a pedo. i wont give evidence though its your job to go find my evidence for me.

[–] tvfan (8767) 6 months ago

Warrior is also a month behind like you, go fetch.

[–] ShadowHunter (814) 6 months ago

bring me the bone doggie. you said you ahve one? where is it?

do you understand my analogy yet? " i found out your dad was a pedophile? i wont provide evidence though. you have to go find it yourself. just "trust me bro"

[–] robocat893 (13754) 6 months ago

https://i.postimg.cc/Xq5cHZJn/conspiracy.jpg 🤣

[–] tvfan (8767) 6 months ago

The public and MSM had already decided that he was murdered 'regardless'.

When the prosecutor was asked "what happens when the actual evidence doesn't match up with the public narrative that everyone's already decided on?"...the response was..."this is the kind of case that ends careers."

Everyone that lied about it from the beginning hid the truth and allowed the prosecution to proceed.

The Biden regime has decided to ignore the findings and continue celebrating Floyd as a martyr and the SC has rejected Chauvin’s appeal.

[–] robocat893 (13754) 6 months ago

https://i.postimg.cc/Xq5cHZJn/conspiracy.jpg 🤣

[–] xanthas (3215) 6 months ago

"Railroaded by politics?"

Nonsense. There shouldn't be any political party that accepts Chauvin's behavior.

[–] warrior-poet (1333) 6 months ago

"There shouldn't be any political party that accepts Chauvin's behavior."

Completely agree. But it's hardly nonsense to state that ideology and politics caused extraordinary pressure to overcharge him. Second-degree murder, even third-degree murder (both of which he was convicted of), and framing it as racially motivated, is absurd. Negligent homicide, i.e. second-degree manslaughter, is what he committed at most, which is all he should have been charged with.

So yes, he was railroaded by politics, or perhaps more accurately, ideology, belief.
_________________________________________
Never believe or disbelieve. Always question. Rebuke bias, a.k.a. groupthink, a.k.a. ideology, the bane of skeptical, logical reason.

[–] Lord Rake (3869) 6 months ago

"One side wants to put the blame entirely on Floyd, the other side entirely on Chauvin. But the truth is that both are to blame."

Not really, Floyd is to blame. It is entirely his fault like all the other crimes he committed in his life. And he was saying he couldn't breathe before he was placed on the ground, I think even when he went nuts in the cop car. Those cops were trying to keep a giant black guy from further endangering himself and stirring up a hostile crowd. Once the crowd starts rioting and throwing punches they would be screwed.

[–] tvfan (8767) 6 months ago

And don't forget that he had a gun to a pregnant woman's abdomen.

Every crime he committed along with a serious deterioration of health and intoxicated with drugs led to his own demise.
No one else is to blame for his own death.

[–] Lord Rake (3869) 6 months ago

If he died while robbing that woman it would have been her fault, "if she was white".

The media has these guys obsessed about a restraint a smaller person uses to secure a larger person, even when the restraint had no effect on the persons death. And have you seen any of the videos lately of groups of blacks beating people to death over nothing? Well yeah, maybe that's the reason the cops wanted to keep Floyd restrained until they could get him out of there.

[–] robocat893 (13754) 6 months ago

At this point who cares anymore? Chauvin has been convicted of murdering Floyd. It's over. Floyd was an awful person but it wasn't up to Chauvin to execute him in the street. Nothing will ever change that no matter how much you worship Chauvin. Maybe you can exchange love letters with him...

[–] stickman38 (3018) 6 months ago

>>>Maybe you can exchange love letters with him... <<<

Some of the people in here would probably take it one step further and have a conjugal visit with Chauvin. lol...

I haven't finished watching the documentary in the OP yet but anyone that has seen the arrest video knows the officers were right to restrain Floyd, it's just unfortunate that Chauvin accidentally killed him.

[–] warrior-poet (1333) 6 months ago

I put blame at about 70/30 Floyd/Chauvin, maybe even 80/20. I agree it's mostly on Floyd. But continuing to pin someone to the pavement long after they've become unresponsive (instead of, you know, performing CPR to try to revive them) isn't reasonable. I call that callous negligence. A good cop would still have acted out of concern for even Floyd's safety at that point in time, who was clearly unconscious. Why keep the knee on the back? At least check if he's breathing? That part's on Chauvin. The rest is on Floyd.

Nothing is ever black and white, ever 100/0. It's always more nuanced and complex.
_________________________________________
Never believe or disbelieve. Always question. Rebuke bias, a.k.a. groupthink, a.k.a. ideology, the bane of skeptical, logical reason.

[–] moviechatterer (13558) 6 months ago

Well , with that in mind , why are you promoting the Far right, kkk , chauvin-did-nothing-wrong , all blacks deserve to die documentary in your OP?

[–] warrior-poet (1333) 6 months ago

Someone forgot to take their meds today. A quote from my OP:

"Much of this was known back then, but not amalgamated in this way. And even after viewing this, ... I still maintain that Chauvin and the others were guilty of negligence."

At which point did I "promote" it? And "KKK"? Laughable. I suspect inadequate reading comprehension. Regardless of the source and motivations, previously unrevealed footage is shown, and many telltale highlights of documents are depicted. In the very first sentence, run-on as it may be, I in fact contradict its narrative that Chauvin is completely innocent. But if I'm going to comment on something, everyone deserves the chance to view the target of my comment, to scrutinize and assess for themselves.

promote: verb (used with object),pro·mot·ed, pro·mot·ing. further the progress of (something, especially a cause, venture, or aim); support or actively encourage; to further the popularity of; to advance in rank, dignity, position, etc.
_________________________________________
Never believe or disbelieve. Always question. Rebuke bias, a.k.a. groupthink, a.k.a. ideology, the bane of skeptical, logical reason.

[–] moviechatterer (13558) 6 months ago

ok your words didnt "promote" it - but you did bring it to us with the provocative title "we were lied to"

You did bring it to us , and I can tell (i admit i havent watched it )purely from the right wing rhetoric spewing forth in the blurb promoting it (and by checking the rep of the producing website) thats its a highly biased propaganda made purely to promote the suppose innocence of Chauvin.

as you say:
" I in fact contradict its narrative that Chauvin is completely innocent."

[–] warrior-poet (1333) 6 months ago

I don't disagree with any of that. But I've always maintained that Chauvin was vastly overcharged and over-convicted. That doesn't mean he's innocent either, though. Another quote from my OP, and the reason for my post:

"my ultimate point here in case it wasn't clear is that as usual we have two sides stuck in a prison of two ideas. One side wants to put the blame entirely on Floyd, the other side entirely on Chauvin. But the truth is that both are to blame."

As I told those who exist firmly on the other side of the ideological spectrum from you, right here in this thread:

"Nothing is ever black and white, ever 100/0. It's always more nuanced and complex".

In fact, most of my posts on this board are an effort to combat that kind of unscientific mindset, to dissuade people from applying groupthink to any situation. As soon as someone picks a side, they're wrong to some degree. Always.

It's why this is my signature...
_________________________________________
Never believe or disbelieve. Always question. Rebuke bias, a.k.a. groupthink, a.k.a. ideology, the bane of skeptical, logical reason.

[–] chilone (17319) 6 months ago

Typical leftist distortion of facts. He said nothing of the sort, just like Trump never said KKK were good people and he never told people to inject themselves with bleach.

[–] tvfan (8767) 6 months ago

moviechatterer is the typical NPC, always regurgitating the MSM.