MovieChat Forums > Politics > Why is every far-right lunatic obsessed ...

Why is every far-right lunatic obsessed with Israel?


I've been noticing that every single far-right nut seems to be obsessed with the state of Israel. Jair Bolsonaro from Brazil, Javier Milei from Argentina, Geert Wilders from the Nethrlands, and of course, we all know the Trump fanbase seems to be obsessed with it as well.

I wonder if powerful and billionaire Zionists are behind this lunacy we're seeing surge across the world? Do they want to start a cultural world war between conservatives and liberals? At this point, I wouldn't be surprised.

reply

https://www.eutimes.net/2020/01/new-dna-study-says-jewish-people-are-not-descendants-of-abraham/

reply

That study is extremely flawed and these articles explain why it's completely wrong:

https://forward.com/opinion/382244/how-23andme-fell-for-anti-semitic-khazar-canard/
https://forward.com/opinion/382967/ashkenazi-jews-are-not-khazars-heres-the-proof/

reply

It is flawed according to those that disagree with the findings, but supported by many that agree. The methods used by those scientists that toe the official line are flawed according to many. They conflate two primary points: 1) genetic findings and 2) the origination of Yiddish. The methodology utilized by Dr. Elhaik, himself a jew, is further reaching than that of the naysayers. Essentially there is a disagreement and neither side has as of yet proven to be completely wrong or right, but the facts that jews essentially run the world and hold the majority of the power in this situation along with their issues with honesty do not work in their favor IMO.

reply

The fact that Eran Elhaik is Jewish is completely irrelevant. Making the completely ridiculous claims that Jews "essentially run the world", "hold the majority of the power in this situation" and have "issues with honesty" just shows you don't have any ability to properly judge this issue. And if Jews have "issues with honesty" then that also applies to Elhaik. According to your own logic, you don't know that Elhaik is even being honest. You'll accept any claim that confirms your hatred of Jews.

The articles I showed you explain the problems with Elhaik's study, not the other way around. They were written in response to that study and explain the problems with it. They don't conflate anything. They simply explain why Elhaik is wrong about both the genetics of Jews and the origin of Yiddish. Elhaik's findings are fatally flawed and prove nothing. There is no actual disagreement between the experts who have done the proper research. You should actually read the articles to learn more.

reply

You don't get to dictate my emotions, and frankly when someone thinks they can they are too far beneath me to converse with, but here's a paper that focuses on the genetic findings.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fgene.2017.00087/full

reply

You responded to my post without even reading all of it. All you've done here is link to the article on the study you already mentioned. You just said that Jews have "issues with honesty". At least 2 of the authors of this study are Jewish. How do you know that they're being honest?

Go read the articles I already showed to you. They explain the very serious flaws with this study:

https://forward.com/opinion/382244/how-23andme-fell-for-anti-semitic-khazar-canard/
https://forward.com/opinion/382967/ashkenazi-jews-are-not-khazars-heres-the-proof/

reply

I did read them, and you still can't dictate my emotions. What a crock, and what a brainless response. The second link included much that was not included in the first- you should take your own advice and read the articles.

reply

You just said that Jews have "issues with honesty". At least 2 of the authors of this study are Jewish. How do you know that they're being honest? WHY WON'T YOU ANSWER THIS QUESTION? Your reliance on this study is completely hypocritical.

You clearly didn't actually read the articles. They explain in great detail why Elhaik is completely wrong. You don't even try to explain why the articles are wrong. You just can't handle the truth. Your hatred of Jews has completely clouded your understanding.

reply

They did not disprove the genetic findings that I saw, they offered alternative hypothesis. If they proved that the genetic evidence is wrong then please quote it here.

Yes jews in general lie, but that does not mean that they do it every opportunity. It's the evidence that I follow.

There you go again with your emotion dictation. And I bet you think that is scientific proof itself. My emotions are my own and I am able to separate myself from them- you should try it sometime.

reply

You can't go out of your way to tell me that Jews have "issues with honesty" and then tell me that any scientific study done by Jews has any credibility whatsoever. Either you're lying about believing that Jews have "issues with honesty" or you're lying about believing that this study has any credibility. Whether you like it or not, you nuked any credibility you had to claim to honestly believe in the accuracy of this study. Don't be so careless with what you say. You're not "following evidence". You're just accepting without question the claims of anyone who helps confirm your hatred of Jews.

Elhaik's genetic findings are total crap. The articles totally disproved his findings. He didn't have actual Khazars to work with so he used Armenians and Georgians as substitutes for them. He substituted Palestinians for ancient Hebrews. This method doesn't work for population groups characterized by geographic mobility. And genetic studies have shown that Ashkenazi and Sephardi Jews are related to each other.

reply

So then you can't quote the articles disproving his work. Gotchya

reply

So then you can't quote any article proving the credibility of Elhaik's work or disproving the other studies that show that Ashkenazi Jews aren't descended from the Khazars. Gotcha.

You don't even try to explain why what I just told you is wrong. You clearly don't have any idea what you're talking about. And here's another article where geneticists explain what's wrong with Elhaik's study:

https://forward.com/israel/175912/jews-a-race-genetic-theory-comes-under-fierce-atta/

reply

That's not how it works though- you took umbrage with what I posted and the onus is on you to make a case otherwise.

I only asked for the proof you claimed was in the articles- why should it be so difficult to present?

You cannot accept this but here is where we are- there are two camps that disagree on a subject, neither has proven their case beyond a reasonable doubt. I am fine with that and for people to make up their own minds on the subject while you attempt to shame and pressure others to see things your way. You may have to face the idea that you can't control others and that they also have free agency of thought.

reply

I provided proof that Elhaik's study was a failure and you completely ignored it. He didn't have actual Khazars to work with so he used Armenians and Georgians as substitutes for them. He substituted Palestinians for ancient Hebrews. The mythical en masse conversion of the Khazars to Judaism was one of the premises on which Elhaik based his conclusion. The following article explains how we know such an en masse conversion of the Khazars to Judaism didn't actually happen:

https://forward.com/news/200825/why-ashkenazi-jews-are-not-descended-from-khazars/

Another disproven premise of Elhaik's study is the claim that Yiddish was originally a Slavic language strongly influenced by Iranian and Turkic languages. It's been linguistically proven that Yiddish developed from German.

It's already been proven that Ashkenazi Jews trace their ancestry to the Mideast:

https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/2014-11-13/ty-article/.premium/75-percent-of-jews-trace-ancestry-to-mideast/0000017f-df85-d3a5-af7f-ffafc4d30000

This scientific article in the Oxford University Genome Biology and Evolution journal goes into further detail about the flaws of Elhaik's study:

https://academic.oup.com/gbe/article/8/7/2259/2467022

Your claim to believe in the truth of Elhaik's study is just a reflection of your antisemitism. Your explicit announcement of your antisemitic beliefs prove that you'll accept any claim that supports your prejudices. Your claim that Jews have "issues with honesty" proves that your supposed choice to believe the honesty of Elhaik on this matter is completely arbitrary and completely hypocritical.

reply

If you've determined that I'm such a bad guy then why do you continue to waste your time with me? Go off and be superior elsewhere eh?

The way things work though what you have listed here does not in fact disprove his work, it only makes us recognize that the conditions were not perfect for the study, and when are they exactly? Never. I will read their material you provided however, only to have you falsely claim I did not and act superior.

Please show me where I claim to believe any of this. I would appreciate that because I want to examine it and correct it. What I have consistently said here is that neither side makes a perfectly convincing argument in my eyes, and as evil as I am I tend to withhold judgement until there is more evidence or proof.

In the same spirit that you have brought here I could counter that you are a jew pawn or even a jew and that no amount of information could dissuade you from your current mindset, but, and again as evil as I am apparently, I don't tend to do that. Nor do I use conversation to judge others or attempt to establish some sort of fake superiority, but it does seem to happen here doesn't it?

I know you want a concession but I am unmoved by either side here and you might have to learn to live with that.

Regarding jew lies- they are committed to record and they don't deny it. Their own literature tells them to lie to the goyim and take advantage of us- that we are only animals to them. This is poisonous philosophy and I absolutely have the right to find it and those that follow it in bad taste. I have been enjoying watching you freak out though. If you feel you deserve it then who am I to argue?

reply

Everything I've shown you disproves Elhaik's study. You just want to pretend otherwise. Claiming that "the conditions were not perfect for the study" is just your way of laundering the fact that the study was improperly done and proves nothing. The Haaretz article I showed you makes a perfectly convincing argument as to how we know that Ashkenazi Jews trace their ancestry to the Mideast. You just want to ignore that fact because you clearly hate Jews. You showed your cards.

I am in fact a Jew and I won't deny that you have greatly offended me. Your talk of "Jew lies" that "are committed to record" is just more antisemitic nonsense. It's a totally garbage claim that our own "literature" tells us to lie to goyim and take advantage of them. That's just antisemitic lies.

reply

I really could not care less about your feelings, and being jewish you are well aware of the things I speak of here yet you lie about it, just as you are instructed to.

I knew you were a jew- your display of false superiority outed you, as well as your inability to separate emotion from conversation.

Give these a read jew.

https://libcom.org/article/jewish-religion-and-its-attitude-non-jews-part-1-israel-shahak

https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/israel-and-anti-gentile-traditions/

reply

Well, I'm a Jew and you hate Jews so of course you don't care about my feelings. As a Jew I have absolutely no awareness of the things you speak of here. If you really believe that I do then why are you showing me these links as if you didn't believe that I already knew any of this? Telling me that I'm instructed to lie because of my religious identity is probably the worst possible strategy for trying to get me to agree with any of your claims or arguments. You further damage your credibility by falsely claiming that you knew I was a Jew before I told you that I was. You kept referring to Jews as 'they' instead of 'you' in all your posts addressed to me before I told you that I was a Jew.

Israel Shahak was a chemistry professor without any expertise on Judaism. He was a proven liar who distorted the facts about Jewish beliefs and practices:

https://traditiononline.org/a-modern-blood-libel-laffaire-shahak/
https://www.lukeford.net/profiles/profiles/israel_shahak.htm
https://www.aishdas.org/student/shabbat.htm
https://www.jewthink.org/2020/09/23/a-modern-blood-libel/
http://hurryupharry.net/2008/03/17/the-abominable-dr-shahak/

Israel Shahak admitted that he lied about seeing an Orthodox Jew on Shabbat refuse to allow the use of his phone to call for help for a non-Jew in need of medical assistance. He also lied about there being a rabbinical ruling confirming that the refusal to use a phone to save a non-Jew’s life on Shabbat was correct. Shahak also lied about Jews worshipping Satan when ritually washing after a meal. Israel Shahak was a mendacious liar with zero credibility on anything having to do with Judaism.

reply

You ensure that people hate you with your accusations and arrogant behaviors. You started throwing around accusations of hatred with nothing to back it up other than a disagreement, and global actions from jews are what continues the intolerance of jews.

You can post things all the live long day but when jews control the money and therefore the research and narrative you simply cannot be trusted. I don't care to win you over through debate, just as you don't when you burned any hope of that with your hate accusations. I wouldn't trust you even if you did- you lie like the rest of your ilk.

The world is banding against jews and rightly so. It is increasing daily and it won't be long before the money and power are wrested from you and you will be laid bare for the world to see. It's coming- prepare for it.

reply

You ensure that people hate you with your accusations and arrogant behaviors. You started throwing around accusations of hatred with nothing to back it up other than a disagreement, and global actions from jews are what continues the intolerance of jews.

You can post things all the live long day but when jews control the money and therefore the research and narrative you simply cannot be trusted. I don't care to win you over through debate, just as you don't when you burned any hope of that with your hate accusations. I wouldn't trust you even if you did- you lie like the rest of your ilk.

The world is banding against jews and rightly so. It is increasing daily and it won't be long before the money and power are wrested from you and you will be laid bare for the world to see. It's coming- prepare for it.

reply

I never accused you of hatred until you spewed your clear hatred of Jews. As someone you know is a Jew, how the hell would I have ever had any hope of winning you over through debate when you already hate Jews so much? Your claim that "jews control the money and therefore the research" is another ridiculous lie. If the lies of Shahak and Elhaik bother you so much then just don't repeat them here.

reply

More lies- we were in a conversation, you didn't like my part and immediately accused me of hatred. What else could we expect from you though? It's coming.

reply

I have no idea what this is about sounds like there is plenty of blame to go around for both Rusty & Sparky. But Sparky your last couple posts about what Jews should expect coming their way sounds pretty fucked up in an 'American History X' kind of way.

reply

k

reply

What's "coming"?

reply

I guess Martin Luther, the reformer, agreed.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/martin-luther-quot-the-jews-and-their-lies-quot

reply

What do you think you actually prove by pointing to a famous person's lazy generalizations about Jews lying that are made without even any attempt to actually support the accusations? Martin Luther was just upset at Jews because he couldn't get them to convert to Christianity.

reply

Lazy? Bwahahaha Nice interpretation, and coincidentally it allows you to avoid recognizing facts. Nice move

reply

Lazy generalizations are exactly what Martin Luther's accusations against the Jews are. None of those quotes are specific accusations about specific lies. They're just overly broad generalizations. They don't involve any facts.

reply

And yet they're true.

reply

There's no proof that they're true. And I don't even know why you would have a problem with lies in the first place. You constantly spout them.

reply

LOL It's coming

reply

You think all Jews are a "brood of vipers" and lie about everything?

reply

It's a totally garbage claim that our own "literature" tells us to lie to goyim and take advantage of them. That's just antisemitic lies.

I personally know two Jews that have confirmed that based on Baba Kamma 113a, it is lawful and permissible to use subterfuges to circumvent (lie) to Gentiles.

They stated that it is not taken out of context, nor misinterpreted, nor obfuscated in any way.

(Baba Kamma 113a) Jews may use lies to circumvent a “Goy” Gentile.

reply

The truth is that this is a misinterpretation of Baba Kamma 113a. What it really means is that Jews are allowed to use subterfuge to evade a Gentile thief. It means that Jews are allowed to lie to a Gentile robber, in particular a crooked tax collector. But Baba Kamma 113a is clear that other than in those circumstances it is prohibited for Jews to use subterfuge against Gentiles.

I don't buy that you of all people just happen to know 2 Jews who have actually studied Talmud and told you this specific information about this specific line in the Talmud. The idea that there is this supposed truth about the Talmud allowing Jews to be dishonest with Gentiles but 2 Jews knowledgable about it would then have the honesty to tell you the truth about it is clearly absurd on its face. What reason would these 2 supposed Jews even have in the first place to bring up in conversation something so embarrassing?

reply

So let me get this straight, it is ok for a Jew to lie to a Gentile thief but not ok to lie to a Jew thief.

Or is there no such thing as a Jew thief or a Jew that would ever steal from another Jew?

Why is the Gentile specifically targeted or singled out, why not make it universal, or generalize it, or just say “anyone”?

So basically, Jews do not lie to each other; they do not steal from each other, and they do not cheat each other, correct? Only the Gentiles are guilty of those.

Based on this logic, either you are misinterpreting or “they” (both Jews), misinterpreted and lied about it.

reply

It's okay for a Jew to lie to a Jewish thief just as it's okay for a Jew to lie to a Gentile thief. Not all Jews are perfect saints. There certainly are Jewish thieves and they certainly steal from other Jews. Some Jews lie to, steal from or cheat other Jews. As I said before, the point of that discussion in the Talmud is to explain how to deal with a crooked tax collector and the tax collectors in the Roman Empire all happened to be Gentiles.

And as I said before, I don't buy that you of all people just happen to know 2 Jews who have actually studied Talmud and told you this specific information about this specific line in the Talmud.

reply

It's okay for a Jew to lie to a Jewish thief

That is not what that Talmud verse says nor what it implies, you have backpedaled and filled in the blanks with excuses as you have done on this forum countless times.

reply

I'm well aware what is discussed in Baba Kamma 113a. I never said that it says in Baba Kamma 113a that it's okay for a Jew to lie to a Jewish thief. You simply asked me whether it was okay and I gave you a direct answer. I haven't backpedaled in any way.

reply

So you're accusing him if lying and that's OK, but when it comes you're way it's hatred for jews. Interesting.

reply

In anonymous communication over the Internet argument by anecdote to other anonymous persons is the weakest form of argument. tvfan's claim completely lacks transparency and it's an extraordinary claim. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. There's a remote possibility that he's telling the truth about this but I have absolutely no obligation to take the truth of his claim for granted.

Your hatred of Jews is completely undeniable by this point. You claimed that Jews are generally liars before I told you I was Jewish and before you accused me of being a liar. That's an undeniable example of hatred of Jews. And you made a whole bunch of other nasty statements about Jews that I've already quoted. Your repeated denials of your hatred of Jews are just completely bizarre.

reply

In anonymous communication over the Internet argument by anecdote to other anonymous persons is the weakest form of argument.


glad this is recognized. i see this way too often here.

reply

What you can't seem to grasp is that hate is an emotion, recognizing the truth around one is not. These continued accusations of hate will only accelerate the inevitable.

reply

You obviously believe (or claim to believe) all those terrible things you've said about Jews because you hate Jews to begin with. It's completely irrational to say that Jewish "genetics" "demand" that Jews lie. You didn't recognize a truth that led you to that conclusion. That supposed belief was purely a product of your pre-existing hatred of Jews. And you're not a robot. It's completely ridiculous for you to claim to believe all these terrible things about Jews but not to have any emotional response to these beliefs and not to hate Jews due to these beliefs.

reply

OK. I'm fine with your label and your idiocy- I can expect nothing less, but jewish claims of antisemitism and hatred have lost their sting due to overuse. Fire away!

reply

You're fine with my label because it's true. There's nothing idiotic about saying you hate Jews because of the awful things you say about Jews. After all the hateful things you've said about Jews what would be idiotic is claiming that you don't hate Jews. It's bizarre for you to say that "jewish claims of antisemitism and hatred have lost their sting due to overuse" when those claims are literally true concerning yourself.

reply

They're literally engaging in nazi-tier rhetoric

reply

Did you take your pills today? It's coming.

reply

[deleted]

More good reading material.

https://www.hmsschoolofchristianjournalism.org/articles/1666-and-the-sabbatean-roots-of-the-new-world-disorder

reply

just more unsupported conspiracist nonsense

reply

Here much of it is supported by Britannica

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Shabbetai-Tzevi

reply

The Britannica article only demonstrates that Shabbetai Tzevi was a person who lived a long time ago. It doesn't have any of the conspiracist nonsense in the first link you showed me. It doesn't say anything about Mayer Amshel Rothschild or Jacob Frank having anything to do with the Illuminati.

reply

It states that Tzevi was a 'false prophet' that wrapped himself in sinful and disgusting behaviors. And he was a jew. My claim was that it's 'good reading material' and I stand by that. Here's more:

https://taylormarshall.com/2020/12/586-pope-francis-rothschild-partner-guardian-ceos-vatican-inclusive-capitalism-council-podcast.html

https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR3176.html

https://geopolitics.co/2015/04/08/the-rothschilds-are-jesuits/

https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1163/j.ctt1w8h1xm

reply

Oh, great. More unsupported conspiracist nonsense that isn't backed up in any way by the Britannica article.

reply

So Britannica is the alpha and omega of fact and truth then? When Galileo stated that the Earth was not the center of the universe was that at the time backed by Britannica? Or any commonly-accepted publication for that matter?

reply

You're the one who provided a link to Britannica when I pointed out that your first link was just unsupported conspiracist nonsense. You're the one who has treated Britannica as the alpha and omega of fact and truth. Everything at the conspiracy websites you've shown me is just unsupported nonsense.

reply

The first link he provided are facts and then he provided more links to other sources that confirm those facts. You can deny them, reject them, and dismiss them all day, but facts are facts.

reply

Some of what's presented in those links are facts. But mostly it's just unsupported claims. Everything they say in support of their conspiracy theories are just unsupported claims.

reply

All I did was link Britannica- your mind fooled you into the rest. If I am wrong quote me where I said the things you claim that I feel, or whatever other evidence you feel you have.

reply

You linked to Britannica because your first link was just a bunch of crap. Your only real claim is that Shabbetai Tzevi was a false messiah. You claim that your other links are "good reading material". If that's your euphemism for unsupported conspiracist nonsense then I have no argument with you.

reply

You yourself claimed that the Britannica article backed up much of the first link- so were you lying then or now? Why is it that you think anyone cares about your opinions? We don't and never will. Glad that sticks in your craw- that dearth of serenity is a call to shore up your evil ways.

reply

The Britannica article only shows that Shabbetai Tzevi was a Jew who falsely claimed to be the Messiah and that he influenced Jacob Frank. It doesn't have any of the conspiracist nonsense in the first link you showed me and I never claimed that it did. So you're only imagining that I lied about anything.

reply

Lies come so easy for you. I wonder why...

reply

I haven't lied about anything and you haven't even tried to show that I have. The only ones lying are those ridiculous conspiracist websites you showed to me.

reply

As if you can resist it- your genetics demand it, as well as your culture. You don't like this sort of treatment? I don't care for you to levy baseless accusations of hate toward me, and if I do have any emotion toward jews you might want to look at your part in it.

reply

So Jewish "genetics" "demand" that we lie? I wasn't aware of that. Can you show me a scientific study proving that?

You claim that Jews "essentially run the world", "control the money and therefore the research and narrative", "in general lie", that even our "genetics demand it" and you speak of "the intolerance of jews" and yet you tell me now that you don't actually hate Jews because of all this. That's just...weird. Or maybe you just don't know what the word 'hate' actually means.

reply

Scientific studies are financed by companies that expect results that will support what they want. There is still value in recognizing the world around one.

It could be that your behavior here has helped me see the light regarding jews. You use accusations of hate to attempt to force the public into doing you bidding, but I honestly couldn't care less about your opinion and I won't be silenced in this manner. Take your hate accusations and shove them.

reply

So you admit that there's no actual science demonstrating that Jews' genetics somehow force us to lie.

As I already pointed out, you claim that Jews "essentially run the world", "control the money and therefore the research and narrative", "in general lie", that even our "genetics demand it" and you speak of "the intolerance of jews". In that context, your denial that you hate Jews is completely absurd. Why make your opinion obvious and then deny the obvious?

reply

As I've said your behavior has gone a long way toward helping me see the light so thanks.

reply

My "behavior"? What "behavior" is that? All I did was debunk your hateful lies about Jews. You're just demonstrating confirmation bias.

reply

No you went to the same old trope jews always do to attempt to maintain their spot in society which is claims of emotion, as if it were a crime, based on nothing but nefarious intention. It's coming.

reply

Jews "maintain their spot in society" through "claims of emotion"? I've never heard that one before. And why wouldn't you have any emotions? Are you a robot?

reply

I am able to separate my emotion from issues and debate. It's not at all surprising that you've never heard of such a thing. Emotion does not need to be the lead in every situation. It's coming.

reply

If you were able to separate your emotions from the issues you debate you would have admitted that I was right about all the lies I debunked. It's only possible to separate your emotions from issues that you don't care about and it's obvious that you care a lot about the issue of Jews. Claiming that you don't have any emotions about this issue just proves that you're either a liar or a narcissist.

reply

If you say so. It's coming.

reply

Why is every far left lunatic obsessed with people who hate us?

reply

Because they can relate. The self-hate is strong. They have been brainwashed into believing their own culture and everything it stands for must be destroyed.

reply

Exactly!

reply

Something people like the TC and some people in the American Media are ignorant of is the fact that terrorists are trying to take over Palestine and are also killing Men, women, and children in both Israel and Palestine. They foolishly think the current situation is good people in Palestine getting persecuted by Israel and that is not what they are fighting about. It's evil terrorists doing horrible things to both Israel and Palestine.

reply

I dont know about far right, left or whatever direction my dick swinging atm.
But I can tell you one thing:
Many people are disappointed in Israel right now.
We expected better...

reply

It's definitely annoying. I'm a lifelong leftist liberal Democrat, and I support Israel because they are the only opposition in the ME to rampant Islamism, which is as right wing conservative and oppressive as an ideology can get. It's pretty gross to be forced to side with right wing assholes on this issue.

reply

Broken clocks...

reply