Supposedly John Cleese 'isn't funny any more' - John Cleese Discussion

[–] Gd5150 (11582) 2 years ago

John Cleese has chunks of guys like “Judd Apatow? Jonah Hill? Amy Schumer? Mindy Kaling? Stephen Colbert? Jimmy Kimmel?” in his stool.

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[–] Satan2016 (24960) 2 years ago

That's originally from the far left Independent: https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/fawlty-towers-john-cleese-returns-b2278209.html

Miserable people of all persuasions say "… isn't funny anymore". The article is an excuse for attacking Cleese for not being woke.

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[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

Precisely.

I don't particularly care for Cleese's apprent embrace of the political right these days (although for anyone who thinks he's gone 'full conservative', he also tweeted an invective at religious conservatives after SCOTUS overturned Roe v Wade last year), but it's also clear to me that these hit pieces on his sense of humour are purely motivated by politics rather than any genuine critique of his comedy chops.

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[–] [deleted] 2 years ago

Gee.... it's almost as if people don't need to goose step to the right/left, conservative/liberal horseshit that the media keeps pushing and keeps two parties of political fucktards in charge... Who woulda thunk it?

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[–] Otter (24464) 2 years ago

I saw him a couple of years ago, on one of his pay-for-the-latest-divorce tours. He was hilarious! Took the piss out of everyone and everything, especially Trump, and I laughed until my abs hurt. Someone else I know saw him on the same tour in a different town, and said he wasn't funny that night, all he did was complain about the latest ex-wife.

So objectively, he's still funny part of the time.

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[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

Good to know.

I doubt he's as anywhere as funny as he was when he was at his peak, or before he started going off on his 'anti-woke' rants, but I also suspect he's far funnier than the vast majority of comics working today.

I also envy you for getting to see him live. That sounds awesome.

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[–] BeaSouth (3114) 2 years ago

This makes it sound like you would have been okay had the article been “John Cleese Just Isn’t Anywhere As Funny Anymore” which isn’t much different than the article title.

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[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

I guess my issue is with the entire existence of the article.

Yes, John Cleese isn't as funny as he once was, but so what? Michael Jordan can't dribble a basketball as well as he once could, should we write an article about that?

What's the point? None of the people criticising Cleese were ever as funny as him at his peak.

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[–] BeaSouth (3114) 2 years ago

[deleted]

[–] [deleted] 2 years ago

He's funny to me.

Everyone else listed have their moments.

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[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

Maybe the first two, but the rest? Seriously?

I'm a progressive leftist, but ever since Colbert shed his fake-conservative persona and started being 'sincere' he's become insufferable, and even rather creepy.

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[–] [deleted] 2 years ago

I agree, but he was funny. That was his moment. Schumer had me laughing at a roast. Kaling had some good moments in TV and movies. Kimmel was hilarious on the Man Show. Hill was great in this is the end. Apatow has put out a lot of good work.

I'm a conservative and I see potential for all of them. Maybe not at the moment, but who knows. I just think they're in a slump because they're too busy looking at Twitter rather than being with real people. That's a huge factor right there.

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[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

I never saw the Man Show, but it struck me as blatant sexism, and now Kimmel has moved to the other extreme and is pretending to be a goodie-goodie progressive.

Two things I can't stand: right-wing misogyny and general bigotry AND left-wing hypocrisy and gas-lighting.

I see those people. They must think we have the memories of goldfish if they believe none of us remember their sexism, racism and homophobia. Fake libs, the lot of them. Only play at being 'woke' because it now pays to be 'liberal'. Which is why I have some sympathy for Cleese however much I may disagree with his current politics. He's moved in the opposite direction, going from someone who was politically incorrect, but mostly targeted conservatives, to an anti-woke curmudgeon.

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[–] [deleted] 2 years ago

Yeah, blatant sexism was the joke.

People think their feelings matter in the grand scheme. Growing up, guys like Bill Hicks, Sam Kinison, George Carlin, woopie Goldberg, Richard Pryor
Dennis Miller, Joan Rivers, etc... pushed everyone's buttons to get us to laugh at others and ourselves. Now, people are less tolerant of other ideas because they put their feelings above listening. I blame social media personally. Everyone got this worthless platform of ads and like buttons. It tricked everyone to think that thoughts mattered. Before that, you'd hear something racist, sexist, stupid, or hilarious in person and directly react. Now, people hit like or dislike buttons, ignore others, and claim to have friends when, in fact, most of their friends are too busy looking at their phones to actually care.

I don't mind hearing misogynism, racism. Bigotry, or stupidity. I just call them out to their face and laugh. If you're lucky, they'll laugh too.

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[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

But it's not so funny if one is the target of misogyny and racism etc.

Anyway, I'm not trying to be preachy here. I know some people find that insufferable, although sometimes it *is* warranted. What I *am* calling out is the hypocrisy.

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[–] [deleted] 2 years ago

That's just fine. I've had my share of biases against me and I love it. Sure, it's hard sometimes, but you grow so much from it and learn to stand up.

Either way, I think you're good with how you see the hypocrisy. It doesn't seem wrong. We might disagree on something, but it's cool you have a standard. I just hope it doesn't deprive you of genuine good times. Take care buddy. We'll see you on the boards.

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[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

Thank you Anotherday. Even if we may disagree on some issues, I really appreciate your civility.

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[–] [deleted] 2 years ago

That person you're responding to is disinfo.

See this thread here: https://moviechat.org/tt21435716/Heathers-The-Musical/63e64821f46ab4337106d3c2/Can-You-SatiriseTarget-White-Privilege-If-You-Erase-White-People

He is one of these foreign nationals who, for some reason, keeps injecting culture warfare polemics into IPs of countries he is not native to, particularly American IPs. (Another one of these is TheArgentinian.) Curiously, when you CORRECT these people on how wrong they are, they double down on the false narratives, or continue to argue with you as a way to keep dropping talking points.

This particular one is very craft, too, because he's using a clever tactic of "both sides" ambiguity and equivocation, as well as pretending to be one or the other to instill trust in other posters, depending on what their political bent happens to be.

Be very careful.

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[–] [deleted] 2 years ago

People think their feelings matter in the grand scheme. Growing up, guys like Bill Hicks, Sam Kinison, George Carlin, woopie Goldberg, Richard Pryor, Dennis Miller, Joan Rivers, etc... pushed everyone's buttons to get us to laugh at others and ourselves.

No, you are wrong.

I was alive and well in the 1980s. The comedy you're talking about is known as "shock jock" humor, which was a new form of comedy pioneered by Howard Stern, popularized by Sam Kinison, and later euphemistically rebranded as "anti-PC" humor. The idea behind shock jock humor wasn't to push everyone's buttons to get us to laugh at ourselves. It was to use shock value to get the edge over other comics who weren't as crude, as well as a way for comics to separate themselves from the older generation of comics (like Henny Youngman, Milton Berle, Bob Hope, etc.), who were still alive at the time and complaining about "blue comedy."

Shock jock wasn't organic to comedy; it was a bandwagon that comics jumped onto in the 1980s. For instance, Joan Rivers, Andrew Dice Clay and George Carlin's acts were completely different until Stern and Kinison broke out. Then they completely changed their acts to capitalize on the shock jock trend.

The point is that never in the history of comedy was the point of humor to push anyone's buttons. At no time did comedy do that in the age of vaudeville, silent film, 1940s comedy radio, the 1950s, 60s or even 70s TV or movies. This form of comedy is brand new and goes against the grain of what comedy is all about, which is why people complain about it. Not because of social media, but because shock jock humor is not comedy.

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[–] [deleted] 2 years ago

Well, I'm not fully sure. It's a compelling point. You're right about the shock jock phenomenon. But I always assumed and I witnessed self reflection, depreciation, situational, and observational comedy prior to the shock jock phenomenon. All those aspects were present in It's a mad mad mad mad world. Would you agree that they may have been pulling people out of comfort zones with better tact and approach than the shock jocks? That's my personal take.

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[–] MovieChatUser497 (18943) 2 years ago

He is funny and always was funny.

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[–] fawltybasil (249) 2 years ago

I haven't found Cleese funny for years but it doesn't take away his track record. At his peak in the 70's and 80's, he was easily one of the funniest performers on the planet. Maybe the funniest.

Hilarious at using his tall, skinny frame for physical gags, hilarious at being deadpan - a lot of the gags in Fawlty Towers comes from his dry, sarcastic delivery towards Sybill, and of course he generously let Kevin Kline have the showier role in A Fish Called Wanda while he played the more straight faced role but was still funny, and obviously he was hilarious at being angry and frustrated.

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[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

That's fair fawltybasil. I guess, going by our usernames, we're both fans.

Sure, Cleese hasn't done anything particularly funny for some decades, and I have my doubts and qualms about the Fawlty Towers revival, but, as you say, his track-record is stellar, which is why I get irritated when lesser comics and commentators badmouth his talent. Yes, technically, they may be right (i.e. he *isn't* as funny as he once was), but when you're one of the key people responsible for Monty Python's Flying Circus, The Holy Grail, The Life of Brian, Fawlty Towers, the underrated The Meaning of Life, and A Fish Called Wanda (and I must give an extra shout for another underrated gem, Clockwise), you arguably get a life-time pass when it comes to funny (which is not to say that you get to pontificate on any other topic, including politics, without any blowback, especially if you're appearing on GB News, the type of absurd right-wing nonsense the Python guys would have taken the proverbial out of back in the day).

And suffice to say, at his peak he was at least one of the top three funniest performers on the planet, along with Steve Martin.

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[–] fawltybasil (249) 2 years ago

Yes, Clockwise is another good film he did.

But yes, Cleese has lost me with GB News. He often rightfully calls out the lies and corruption of Boris Johnson and the Tory politicians who like Johnson on his Twitter, and then goes on a station that's basically nothing but propaganda for Johnson and his supporters.

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[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

Suffice to say, I don't watch GB News, and don't approve of anyone's choice to appear on it (although I do know of a few former Labour MPs who are regular contributors to the network, make of that what you will). Still, if Cleese is continuing to bad-mouth Johnson and the Tory Party, he can't be *entirely* bad, and without wishing to defend the channel, there is a possibility that right-wingers who watch his show might incrementally move further away from the far-right in a way that a staunch lefty campaigner, like me, couldn't convince them to do.

Dyed-in-the-wool Tories aren't going to listen to me. They aren't likely to change/move to the centre on account of anything I say. But they may be convinced to moderate their stance if they listen to someone like Cleese, who seems to be right-wing on some issues (i.e. Brexit, 'wokeness') and more centrist/left on other issues (i.e. Trump, Boris Johnson, the Tories in general, abortion rights, theocracies).