MovieChat Forums > Citizen Kane (1941) Discussion > How did anyone know that his dying word ...

How did anyone know that his dying word was "Rosebud"?


The opening shows that he died alone; there's no one in the room with him. A nurse comes in immediately after he passes, but couldn't likely hear him whisper at such a distance beyond a closed door.

Any movie labeled "best film ever" shouldn't start with such incongruity.

reply

Millsey, is that you?

Real answer - The plot required it.

reply

But it's still a plot hole. Even Orson poked fun at it. In his final year of life he was holding court in the Bistro in Beverly Hills when a nervous young man approached him with the criticism: "There was n-no one else in the room. So how, how do they know those were his last w-words?" Welles looked at him a moment, then put his hand on the back of the man's neck and drew him close. "You must never," he said softly, "repeat one word of what you have told me to a living soul."

reply

Which proves because The plot required it. That happens a lot in movies before and since CK

reply

Chill. Welles knew it and was poking fun at it; so am I.

My point is the irony of "Citizen Kane" being touted as "the greatest film ever made" when it has a glaring story-flaw right out of the gate.

Another good example is the original "Planet of the Apes": The apes all speak English, which means the planet would have to be Earth. So why is the climatic revelation such a surprise to Taylor?

reply

"Real answer - The plot required it."

That's a terrible answer. A good writer would know how to avoid such a plothole.

reply

His nurse had really good hearing.

reply

Raymond claims later in the movie to have been present when Kane died.


reply

If so, he's lying. The opening plainly shows that Kane perished alone with no one in the room with him. A nurse comes in immediately after he passes, but wouldn't have heard him whisper at such a distance beyond a closed door.

reply

The opening plainly shows that Kane perished alone with no one in the room with him

Does it though? It's all done in extreme close-up. Perhaps it's from Raymond's POV. Perhaps it's expressionistic rather than literal. (It undoubtedly is expressionistic.)

If so


No 'if so' about it -- he definitely does.

he's lying


Possibly. But it's in the film. And how else do you explain the journalists knowing Kane's last word... which we, the audience, can confirm because we definitely saw it?

Finally, can you think of any reasons why -- in a film that is essentially about Kane's life being an unsolvable 'jigsaw puzzle' -- the decision may have been taken to make this all arguable?

reply

Believe as you will, but Orson himself poked fun at the glaring plot hole. In his final year he was at the Bistro in Beverly Hills when a nervous young man approached him with the criticism: "There was n-no one else in the room. So how, how do they know those were his last w-words?" Welles looked at him for a moment, then put his hand on the back of his neck and drew him close. "You must never," he said softly, "repeat one word of what you have told me to a living soul."

reply

1) I don't believe that story. It's almost certainly an urban myth. How does anyone know about these softly-spoken words to an anonymous young man? Could it be, in fact, a joke... running parallel to the idea that no-one could hear a soft-spoken 'Rosebud' in Citizen Kane?

2) Even if the story were true, it really doesn't matter because it doesn't change a single frame of the film. The information you require for the film is -- and can only be -- in the film. What the author says about the film doesn't matter one iota. The text is all that counts.

You can interpret it as a 'plot hole' if you like, but the film provides the explanation. So it really isn't one.

reply

Why Sure.

reply

In almost every movie ever made, the audience sees and hears things that no character within the movie would have seen or heard. Have you seen very many movies?

reply

That's not the issue here. The characters in the movie somehow know that "Rosebud" was Kane's last word. But how could they if he was alone behind closed doors and whispered it?

reply

Ahh, but we are told that someone did hear it.
However, as it turned out someone else was close enough to hear that, after "Rosebud...", Kane added "Henri..." Now, careful checking of Kane's background yielded no information on anyone named Henri. BUT, yet another person eventually testified that after "Henri", Kane was heard to say "Hold the mayo..."

That's stuck in my head for a good many years.

reply


LOL.

reply


It's a screw-up but not a plot hole. That incongruity could have been explained with a tiny bit of additional writing.

While I believe as you do that it was an unintentional goof, they could have fixed that in post production if someone pointed that out in a pre-release screening by simply adding a two second shot of his nurse with her ear to the door to check on him. She hears him say "Rosebud", then enters the room in response to the snow globe smashing.

reply

Yep, it could've easily been fixed.

reply

The butler said he was in the room and heard him say it.

reply

Why Sure!

Even Welles knew it was a mistake and poked fun at it.

reply

It happened off screen.

There was no desire to show anyone else until after Kane died. Pointing the camera around the room purely to inform the audience that other people are witnessing what they are seeing on the screen would have broken up the flow and the style of the opening.

The first person we see is Kane. He dies. And then a nurse opens the door and walks in. Seems kind of strange that a guy on his death bed would be left alone with the door closed. And how did the nurse hear him whispering Rosebud through the door?

The movie only shows you what you need to see and quite honestly you don't need to see people you don't know hearing Kane say "Rosebud" in that moment. Being told a few minutes later that others did will do just fine.

How do we know that Kane hadn't been saying Rosebud over and over again in his final hours?

reply