Dog name


I Netflix'd this because I heard it influenced some scenes in Star Wars. Although that was evident, I came out really appreciating the film in its own right. It's pacing and plot were far better than many modern Hollywood films. I had one problem though: Was it common in 1940s Britain to name one's dog *beep* ? Perhaps the term is not such a pejorative in that place or at that time. I surmised that was the dog's name because it was a black dog. I can imagine several PC groups going apesh*t over this movie about this.

reply

and what's the matter with voting Labour?

reply

"you definitely sound working class.

It's a great pity that the working classes in this country don't get up off their 'arses' and go and try and better themselves. Instead of just sitting their with their hands forever outstretched begging for me 'freebies'."

-so essentially you're saying you don't work and just sit on your own arse all day complaining about people who do?

reply

I was wondering what class pandkduke thinks he is?

reply

Judging by his name he probably thinks he's a duke - but he sounds like a bit of a count to me!

reply

damn all this over a dogs name LOL sheesh guys get a grip if it was common then to call a dog the name so what its 2006 now and if they remake the movie they should keep it for historical accuracy from all I read about him Gibson a hero in all eyes was at 25 a young man devoted to his pet.I am an American who hates all forms of prejudice and I know I know someone will find out I was a Police Officer and say I am lying but hey were all entitled to our opinions and as for calling each other names IE moron PC brigade fools et al it should stip here otherwise were all guilty of that which were claiming not to be dont you think? and yes I have had many accusations of being non PC tossed at me by people who called me as a cop a klansman a white supremist hitler and my personel favorite a white Irish Pig of a cop wow get over it people remember words can go both ways if you wish them to hurt they can dont let them ignore them and you make the other person look worse........

reply

Fun though isn't it? He might come back with his big caps and have a go at us then we'll answer him again; or whoever else might chip in - as regards the dog's name I doubt if they will use it in any new film but the discussion about the dog's name seemed to disappear!

reply

[deleted]

Well, it seems that Peter Jackson & Stephen Fry have been discussing the dog's name in the film as Digital Spy reports:-
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/ustv/a58012/frys-bones-role-came-by-accident.html

For the record, I don't think that we have any right to change history. The name *beep* should be used in the new film. We're referring to a dog which lived in the 1940’s, not to a human of Afro-Caribbean origin living today.

However, no doubt the pressure to be overly politically correct will weigh-in and the studio will change the name to 'lucky'. Gamblers Anonymous will then take offence and have it changed to 'boy'. Then the anti ageist lobby will insist that it's changed again to something else. Why don't we just write the dog out of the movie, destroy all existing copies of the original and cement over his grave. That way we can all sleep easy at night without offending anyone . . . apart from the insomniacs.

reply

I guess if they cast all the RAF crew as Gansta Rappers they can keep the dogs original name.

reply

That's a great idea to have gagngsta rappers to star in the re-make. Maybe then the movie could star DamBusta Rhymes ....flying an Afro-Lancaster..?

reply

his dogs called *beep*

reply

Oh dear God no, just no

reply

lol... that's funny. I appreciate a little humor here, instead of the finger pointing and ranting entries about racism, etc. After all, this is a thread about the dog's name!

reply

When I was a child in the early 1950s I had a dog called "Sambo".Er,that's it really.
"Either this man's dead or my watch has stopped".

reply

A suggestion-- Why dont they keep the dog in the film but instead of using his name the actors beckon him with' Here Boy 'Good Boy'etc.And Gibson could refer to the code as being about his dogs name and because its top secret his name is not mentioned.

reply

I fear this movie is gonna be about the dogs name than honoring 617 squadron

reply

[deleted]

I don't think anybody should be offended by words, i mean it depends what context the words are used in if i was to say 'i love *beep* surely that isn't racist? i hate racism but political correctness really aggravates me. I like to break down the barriers between our cultures whereas the PC and the racists like to put them up. words are words, if people are offended by them maybe they should grow up and stop being so insecure, you can tell when someones saying something with venom or not. Learn to be tolerate people.

reply

Why does it need a remake anyway? Or is it just another example of the good ol' USofA wanting to rewrite it with an American crew and an American, no doubt "Irish-American" or "African-American" coming up with the invention?
They did it with U-571, after all...

As for the name - as my 5 year-old would say - "build a bridge, and get over it!"

reply

"Why does it need a remake anyway?"

Which is what I was discussing with my mum the other day.

I live 2 minutes from RAF scampton and half an hour from RAF Woodhall spa where 617 were originally based so this is a story very close to my heart. and I know a lot of vets who were involved with the Lancaster bombers in Lincolnshire who are annoyed that it's being remade, as a lot were used as extras in the original movie.

I'm also that annoyed that they appear to be compleatly ignoring Lincolnshire (which is a massive RAF county) in favour of New Zealand from what the Lincolnshire echo keeps saying (our local paper), now I have nothing against that country, I've been there on Holiday twice and it is stunning. But at least honour the history of the raid and keep the filming somewhat accurate. I realise that most will have to be CG, considering there are only two flying Lancasters, (one of which is at Coningsby which could be used, the other in Canada, and up the road at east Kirkby there's one that taxis called Just Jane.) and probably the dams will be minatures e.t.c. but they have two perfectly good lancasters with in a few miles of Lincoln that work that could be used in situe.

As for the Dog, it's History, just deal with it. They took an Oil painting down from the officers mess at Scampton because somebody complained that it had the N word on it, even though that was the dogs name. Next they'll want to change the dogs name on it's grave. The simple fact is that they were from a compleatly different time and culture, the vets I mentioned see nothing wrong with that word, they're not intentionally being racist, they were just brought up differently.

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
How do you expect to slay the huns with dust on your jump wings.

reply

I heard this referenced in the British version of The Office, and chuckled at how connotations change from era to era. Hell, Shakespeare...Twain...they wrote some offensive stuff when viewed today, Twain in fact used that same word countless times in Huck Finn. However, when something has gained general acceptance as being reviled, in future accounts or remakes it should probably be omitted, because as you would all agree, at that point it will drastically draw attention away from the story line. It's just too jarring a word in this day and age.

I do have to ask though...Is it THAT integral to the movie to even have the dog at all?

reply

In Mike Leigh's film 'Nuts In May', one of the characters is called Honky.

Surely this is offensive to white people and should be bleeped out...?

reply

There's far too much attention paid to this sort of nonsense. Guy Gibson's dog was called *beep* in the same way that Agatha Christie's famous novel in its first edition (at least) was called "Ten Little *beep* and that's an end to it. Changing things from the past to suit modern circumstances was a practice commonly used by the late Soviet Union -- replacing an article in the national encyclopaedia for Lavrentiy Beria (head of the NKVD) with one on the Bering Straits, for example. Is that the way we want to go? Perhaps it is. Not too long
ago I saw on AMC a print of Edward Dmytryk's "The Young Lions" in which an invitation to Montgomery Clift by Dean Martin to attend a party was shorn of the word 'broads' as an inducement. Sad.

reply

"Is it THAT integral to the movie to even have the dog at all?"

Have you actually watched the film at all, because it doesn't sound like it.

The code word for destroying the Möhne dam was the dog's name, N****r. That's not done for artistic purposes, it's done because that is what actually happened.

I'd call the code word for destroying the Möhne dam fairly integral, wouldn't you?

reply

I just watched the film on Channel 4 just there and the dog didn't seem to have a name, in most scenes it was called "old boy".

In the scene where Gibson is told that the dog is run over the guy walked up to him and said something along the lines of "he's dead" not making any mention of who was dead so it didn't really make sense.

I'd never saw the film before so I don't know if that's how it originally but it just seemed silly.

reply

Channel 4 is paranoid about "racism", and particularly the word ni gger, since the Big Brother incident(s).

As a result, they completely butchered the movie - as MadVillain says, the scene where Gibson is informed of his dog's death makes no sense, nor does the later scene when he asks a colleague to bury him at the time they arrive over the dams.
And the emotional climax of the film - when Barnes Wallis learns that the Möhne has been destroyed and that all his work has been justified - was wrecked by the clumsy editing-out of the 'phone operator's triumphant cry of "It's Ni gger!"

reply

Absolutely right - Channel 4 edited out the 'offending word' in today's showing leaving bits of the film unintelligible.

The corporal approaches Gibson and says, "He's dead. Been run over by a car....."

Now anyone would say, in answer to this, "Who is dead?", but Gibson doesn't and immediately knows his dog has been killed because in the full version of the scene the corporal had already told him.

I have seen this film numerous times, the last time a year or so ago on one of the other British terrestrial channels but I can't remember which one, and THAT word was left in and featured in several scenes.

What the corporal actually said was, "It's Niger sir. He's dead, Been run over by a car......" He didn't actually say Niger but that is as close an approximation as I can probably get away with.

For many years BBC Radio used to broadcast programmes featuring 'bloopers' (mistakes) that had occurred down the years.

One that used to feature regularly until the last fifteen/twenty years or so was a BBC continuity announcer, replete with cut glass accent sometime in the late 1940s or early 1950s, saying, "The next programme will be a talk entitled Land of the Niger", although he actually unintentionally mis-pronounced it and I need go no further.

So well into the 1980s such words were deemed acceptable in mainstream British broadcasting, even if only to get a laugh.

reply

I watched it too. The other replies to your post pretty much describe the mess they made of it. Channel 4 are rewriting history to suit their current political viewpoint and I view that as dangerous.

We should not change the dog's name because it makes us uncomfortable; instead we should be glad that it does...

reply

[deleted]

well you will all notice, of course, that imdB has an automatic way of beeping this word out; is this right or not? Who knows. It offends today but it didn't offend then; it didn't offend in Britain then because they didn't have many blacks living there; I don't mean when they made the film I mean when the war was on.
At that time the blacks in the US army didn't billet with their white comrades even though they were risking their lives just as much as the whites; they had Jim Crowe laws when they got home and they couldn't even get into a whites only swimming pool without the pool being emptied of water but in Britain the British happily carried on and used the word that nowadays offends most people.

reply

I did read an interview with Peter Jackson about the planned remake he his producing and he said the offending name would remain because it was historicaly accurate, it does seem its only C4 who would like to rewrite history.

"No Tea for the Beastmaster please, he feasts on the Blood of his Prey"

reply

Well, that's not quite true. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-13727908 Peter Jackson and Stephen Fry appear to have bowed to American pressure.

reply

I saw the C4 broadcast the other day and I was furious at the way the word was dubbed out.

I am a staunch liberal and I think censorship is as dangerous as racism, one evil should not be used to combat another.

It is sad that C4, which has always been a great defender of freedom of speech and has always put up a great fight against censorship, gave in on this.

reply

What bugged me was that, since the dog and naturally, his name, were part of the plot - especially the codeword for breaching the Moehne Dam - how crude the tv editing was! It almost appeared as though half of RAF Bomber Command suffered from speech impediments!
I'm almost tempted to send a sarcastic e-mail to C4 asking for clarification of the poor mutts name since he featured so prominently. Also, since there was a codeword (Dinghy) for breaching the Eder Dam - what was the one for the Moehne?(!)

reply

I too saw this film the other day on C4. As Richard Todd is still alive, why didn't they get him to re-dub the name of the dog? Something like "Digger"? Digging is something that dogs do a lot of anyway. Surely it can't be that difficult, technically.

reply

[deleted]

"why didn't they get him to re-dub the name of the dog? Something like "Digger"?"

Because Digger wasn't the dogs name. There is no need to edit or dub anything. The Dogs name was N! gger, people need to live with it. Ok so we wouldn't use the term today, but we can't start re-writing history just because in todays world it isn't PC!

What next, a film about Vikings where they don't rape and pilliage? Re-make Roots without Slavery? or Shindlers list without Nazis?

reply

Thought i heard/read that that USA prints of the movie re-dubbed the dog as "Trigger"...?

reply

It does seem kind of curious considering the stuff that Channel 4 has done in the past (Red Triangle films anyone?)

And these days it would probably be more appropriate to call it the Big Brother channel.

reply

to reply to thompsom88998899's question

"I do have to ask though...Is it THAT integral to the movie to even have the dog at all?"

I asked the same thing the other day, the annoying censorship only highlighted the 'sub-plot' about the dog.

I couldn't figure out if it was a corny reference to show how they were all defending a British right to be eccentric - lets face it, taking your pet to work is fairly unusual, but in the middle of a war it's bit weird.

Maybe it was trying to show something about Gibson's character - that he was a bit of a maverick, and as with most mavericks there is a thin line between genius and madness (the sort of madness that makes you take on a highly dangerous mission). The fact that, in a very diciplined environment of an airbase, his dog was allowed to wander about unchecked showed that he could do what he liked because his leadership qualities were so respected. The fact that he gets on with the mission without showing personal emotion is stereotypically British(in 50's movies at least).

He was portrayed as a slightly lonely person - he had to avoid getting too personally involved with his men (in order to maintain authority and because there was such a high turnover). So maybe the dog was there, as his constant companian, to highlight the loneliness of leadership. In the final scene, where he walks off to write letters, he did seem a very lonely figure without his companion by his side. That is one of those great movie scenes that have stuck with me since childhood.

Also, there is the British thing about caring more about animals than people. When that film was shown in 1955 you could imagine most of the
cinema audience being in tears when the dog dies. Yet a few minutes later, when they see 100+men going off on a near-suicide mission, possibly to kill 100s or 1000s of civilians, the audience are stirred up to patriotic fervour.

So maybe the dog's sub-plot is used for this display of irony ? It's a bit like Saving Pt Ryan, where we see unlimited death for half an hour and then the rest of the film is about one person - a message that humanity is important even during mass-murder.

When watching the film this time I was struck by how powerful the scene was when the trucks carry the men across the airfield to the Lancasters and the stirring theme music is played in full. I don't think that scene would be half as powerful without the sentimental doggie sub-plot only a minute earlier.

reply

The dogs name isnt very nice but thats what it was and they really cant do a remake of the film and not mention it as its history after all.The original film has been shown so many times now that everyone knows what the dogs name was so by leaving it out would only draws more attention to the fact than if they leave it in.
At the end of the day no ones saying that we have to like or agree with what the dogs name was,but for the sake of the films accuracy they should leave it in.

reply

I am a Black American living in Canada. I was raised in a segregated Indiana community during the 50 and 60's. I have seen the movie several times. The first time I heard the dogs name, I was offended. I then went onto the Internet to get the facts behind the movie to discover that indeed this was the dog's real name.

I am intelligent enough to know that before the 60's the use of the "N" word was common practice in other countires outside the US in a non-offensive manner. In the US, well we'll let history speak for itself.

Regardless. after seeing the movie again, I have found the word less offensive. In the soon to be released remake I can accept the historical fact that that is the dogs name and get on with the movie. As stated elsewhere in this thread, those who have seen the original movie are going to be offended if the dog and it's real name is left out.

But also as stated elsewhere, you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

Tony

reply

they may remove the dogs name or dubb it over with "digger" or "trigger". lol
but anyone with a grasp of morse code will clearly be a able to make out the code word
-.
..
--.
--.
.
.-.
as confirmation that the mohene dam has been breached. rofl

or will they change that to?

blogs
chuckling till i die

reply

they may remove the dogs name or dubb it over with "digger" or "trigger". lol
but anyone with a grasp of morse code will clearly be a able to make out the code word

or will they change that to?


Maybe they could call the offending doggie Nigel instead?!

reply

I watched the re-mastered version yesterday at the cinema and I had forgotten (a) just how good this film is and (b) the sheer number of times characters say n***er. I was in stitches for quite a lot of the film. It almost felt like it was ahead of its time and was actually a clip from a modern sketch show making some form of astute social observation.

How times change. We couldn't have the RAF acting like that now. Just imagine, the welfare of the country in the hands of a bunch of racist bigots. Although i'm sure Prince Phillip would feel very much at home amongst the inappropriate comments.

I have the horrible feeling that the remake will probably feature some massively contrived love story to replace said Labrador. A shame really, as the name of the dog really was a sign of the times and social perceptions, however, i'm sure that these are not issues that Hollywood are concerned with when commisioning a re-make.

fan-dan-go

reply

I too watched this in the cinema the other day. A pregnant silence came over the audience the first time the dog was called by name.

To be honest I don't much care what they do with the remake, the dog's name and the code words are pretty irrelevant to the plot and they'll probably mess it up in a hundred other more significant ways. I'd be more annoyed if anyone tinkered with the original, as other posters have said it places the film in its social and historical context. I suspect it might also get an R rating for smoking, as it The Dam Busters makes it seem as if it was almost compulsory if you were in the RAF.

Great to see the film on a big screen once again though

reply

Sorry if this has been posted before, I really can't be bothered to go through them all. Perhaps the dog's name should be changed to Black B@stard.

reply

I’m assuming most of you like me are in the UK as The Dambusters is relatively unknown in the States. Up to about the early 1970’s in this country a black dog was called niger (had to spell it wrong or get censored-bless) by default & there was absolutely nothing racist about it. Strictly speaking niger means black & that’s all it means. There even used to be until about the late 1960’s a colour called niger brown. When Britain became multiracial black dogs were no longer called niger (generally speaking) & the colour niger brown was called something else.

If history were rewritten because this or that offended someone you would have a total distortion of history, eradicate the facts of history till no one will know what REALLY HAPPENED”.

The Merchant of Venice is not taught in the New York City public school system because NYC is 40% Jewish & the NYC Board of Education is 70% Jewish & they view the play as anti-Semitic which it’s not to anyone with half a brain who’s read it.

I lived in Germany for many years & thankfully this politically correct rubbish that has gripped the English speaking world by the short & curlies does not exist there or anywhere else in Europe. It’s a digesting disease sweeping across the English speaking nations originating from the USA where a gun is viewed as a symbol of freedom & democracy. Go figure that one out!

Lord of the Rings director Peter Jackson is producing a remake of The Dambusters now in production in Lincolnshire & New Zealand & they are damned if they use the “N” word in the remake from the politically correct brigade & damned if they don’t from the purists.

By the way the black dog used in the 1954 original really was called Niger.

Who let the dogs out ruf, ruf.

reply