watched it because i heard Joe Wright (Pride and Prejudice, Atonement) likes David Lean and i couldn't believe how bad it was!
i hope the guy's other movies are better than this, otherwise it's also sad his name sounds like Lynch. i mean... to confuse those two, sad. :D
hipechik:
Re: "The OP clearly has half a brain missing." And your comment.
"Wow, what a brilliant summation of why Doctor Zhivago is a great film! You have everyone convinced, sir, with your intelligent analysis."
You did it again!
You failed to provide any argument or references regarding your position or analysis of this movie while critizing another's point of view. You only seem to be capable of derision or sarcastic comment against other posters, without any justification whatsoever. Maybe that's because you are not capable of any critical thought?
If you are going to post contrary argument, at least please have the courtesy to provide some intelligent argument and specific references to support your point of view. You are not exempt from what you accuse others of doing.
Based on your own words and terms of reference in a prior post, one can only conclude: YOU ARE AN IDIOT!
Get a life, you moron and stop posting unsupported drivel.
I can't believe anybody would think this movie sucked. I don't want to know you.
shareThen we are destined never to be friends. As I said earlier, I am really amazed that people still argue in favour of this discredited lump of badly acted, historically deranged fluff.
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And I am equally amazed that people still attempt to discredit this epic masterpiece.
And it is a MOVIE. And in general I don't pick my friends by their taste in movies, though anyone who thinks "Starship Troopers" and "Transformers" are epic masterpieces is unlikely to become part of my inner circle. And, frankly, who cares?!
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An earlier poster on this thread mentioned letting the film "wash over you." He's got it, actually. Film fiction is about escapism, and whether the subject matter is the Russian Revolution or giant robots from outer space, suspension of disbelief (and, I might add, hyper-critical smuggness) is key. So it doesn't exactly follow Aristotle's three unities. Who cares? Try this: pour a glass of your favorite beverage, lean back into the pillows, and let the story wash over you. For a while you'll forget what a crappy day you had at work or school, forget the stack of bills on your desk, and even (maybe) forget about the economy swirling the bowl. Movies are fun, and sometimes they can move you. Just go with it. Don't overthink it.
Relax!
Al: Who wouldn't be tense? This music could make Will Rogers punch a nun.
How sad. How old are you?
Most young people have no idea what life was like during the Revolution because historical books are not read on a regular basis today. If its not in text speak most young adults dont understand. empathy, compassion ,great love and amazing cinematography it has it all
For some of us pure romantics this film brought together true love that triumphed through sheer adversity. One of the best films of all time.
Try watching it on Sunday afternoon and take the phone off the hook, close the curtains and relax. it is a long film but that is what EPIC's are all about. Your not meant to rush through it but to absorb it in all its intensity.
It makes me cry every time even though i know whats coming and i dont cry easily.
You're an idiot if you think this is a bad film. Stick with "Enchanted" and "Beverly Hills Chihuahua."
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What's wrong with Enchanted, pray tell? I enjoyed that movie.
"If you can’t say something good about someone, sit right here by me."
The major flaw in this movie for me is Julie Christie's performance. She is absolutely unrelatable and wooden throughout the entire film, I can't believe how bad her acting is. I can't find one redeeming scene or moment, she is just BAD. Aside from her scenes I thought the film was decent, it's obviously a very well-made film on all fronts. Lean's craftmanship is undeniable. But I found I could only enjoy it superficially, I was not invested emotionally because I did not buy the epic romance which was at the heart of the movie. When it was finished I felt indifferent, not hating it but not liking it much either, and I certainly did not feel like watching it again.
I think Ryan's Daughter is a more superior film, especially the acting. It's PERFECT in every way. In fact, it's my favorite David Lean film and in my top 5 favorite films of all time. I don't know why it's so overlooked, even by Lean fans themselves.
Ryan's Daughter is not a perfect film, but it is far superior to Zhivago.
Whatever happens, we have got/The Maxim Gun, and they have not!
I think also there are certain films where you have to really have a romantic temperament to enjoy otherwise you won't be able to stand it. People these days just aren't as romantic anymore. It's why on boards for films like Zhivago, Out of Africa, Titanic, and the English Patient you see some of the harshest hate posts. A love story used to be seen as the soul of a film nowadays people just see it as "boring" or a plot device to get through the action/thriller scenes they really want to see.
Predictions:DiCaprio/Winslet/Davis/Shannon
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Titanic is okay and The English Patient is great. Depending on what we're defining as films of this type, although not all of them are masterpieces, I'd add Ryan's Daughter, Cold Mountain, Atonement and Australia to the list of worthwhile films as well.
Mr. Rusk. You're not wearing your tie!
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No, I'm not kidding. I'd argue Australia is the best film of the decade so far - better than most of the drek that gets nominated for Oscars, at any rate.
I don't think Atonement is excellent, merely good. You're right that it isn't an epic per se, but that seems to be one of the many directions it's trying to go.
Mr. Rusk. You're not wearing your tie!
To agree with the OP, this movie sucked. It is very long, very boring, and very unromantic.
And really, just leave it at that. People that argue that the OP is an idiot are being obstinate. If a film fails to appeal to a person, then its the film's--not the viewer's--fault. "Fault" is perhaps too strong of a word, as it's just the inherent inability for a film to appeal to everyone. But don't think I dislike the film because I don't "understand" it well enough. You can't make someone like art by explaining it to them. Film analysis is meant to explain why we like what we like, not to explain why films are "better" than we think they are.
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Shows that you're a rash judge of character. Stop proving my point.
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You are entitled to your opinion, but I think Australia is extraordinary.
Doctor Zhivago is an excellent movie but it has a large number of flaws worthy of criticism. Not the OP's kind of criticism though.
Mr. Rusk. You're not wearing your tie!
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I'm not disagreeing with you! I'm merely saying it's not perfect.
Nothing that happens on Earth is unknown to Santa Claus!
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The pacing, the second half, the casting of Sharif and Christie, the painfully drawn out Varykino scenes towards the end, the poor treatment of many of the supporting characters.
Nothing that happens on Earth is unknown to Santa Claus!
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I've seen Zhivago at least ten times by now, and I'll undoubtedly watch it many times in the future. However, I don't think I need to watch it again to "get it", as I know the film pretty much inside out at this point.
I didn't mean the pace is slow necessarily, just that it's poor. The slow pace in, say, the early scenes is fine, but in the second half it's ridiculous. The winter at Varykino is zipped through, the scenes with the Partisans are a few brief montages, but the scene with Lara and Yuri hiding out at Varykino goes on and on and on... why, exactly? What need is there of this? Not to mention the film's historical chronology is hopelessly out of whack.
I've always thought Christie, looks aside (and as said many times elsewhere I find Geraldine Chaplin more appealing in that department anyway), is rather stiff and bland as Lara, and I know many who agree with me. Let's be fair: I don't think Christie's performance is bad. I think the problem is with the script, which took a character who was basically a male fantasy made flesh and tried to work around that. Lara's early scenes with Komarovsky are interesting, but as the story progresses she becomes less and less interesting in my opinion. Nor do we see much of her relationship with Yuri; we have a few brief scenes of them together in World War I, and they're madly in love. Excuse me, if your film is going to be a love story could you show us some of the stuff that brought them together please?
I agree that many of the supporting characters are well-written and portrayed, but a lot of them are cheated in regards to their fates. Strelnikov most egregiously, the way he was written out of the story was borderline offensive (especially considering his fate in the book). Same with Tonya and Uncle Alex, they just vanish from the story completely after Yuri is kidnapped. And what exactly happened with Lara and Komarovsky after the end of the main story is hopelessly garbled.
I think the novel is better than the film on the whole, although a lot of the movie's flaws are inherent in the source material. I think Lean did as good a job as anyone could have making Pasternak's book into a three hour movie.
You can read this if you wish or have the time to. If you don't have the time to spend, that's alright, but I think you will be able to appreciate that I DO love this movie. I just don't think it's perfect, and it's my least favorite of Lean's five epic films.
http://nothingiswrittenfilm.blogspot.com/2008/09/seduced-by-grandeur-d octor-zhivago.html
Nothing that happens on Earth is unknown to Santa Claus!
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I agree totally with your comments on the Varykino scenes in the film. This is the resolution of the relationship between Jurii and Lara that we were set up for in the opening scene between Yevgraf and The Girl, and it deserves everything Lean put into it. The frigid rooms of the Varykino ice-palace melt in the warmth of Jurii's and Lara’s love.
In my view neither the novel nor the film benefit significantly from Katia’s presence, and I think the film would have been improved without her because she is a confusing distraction at the end where Lara and Yevgraf are searching for Lara’s lost child. In the novel we hear nothing more of her after they leave Varykino, and if she had been left out of the film the opportunity for Yurii and Lara to explore their relationship more fully could have developed.
But do the Varykino scenes really deserve more screen time than Lara and Zhivago's falling in love?
Nothing that happens on Earth is unknown to Santa Claus!
To my eye and mind the Varykino scenes represent the feelings passing between Jurii and Lara. The sleigh ride with the marvelously joyous Varykino theme. The wolves howling in the distance and evoking Lara's fear, metaphors for the Red Guards closing in on them The scene where Zhivago strokes the desk where he learned to write as a child and opens the drawer to discover the pen and paper for the creation of his Lara poems. The ice-palace sheltering their warmth at its core represents the forbidding outside world and bringing them closer together, all this coupled with Lara's theme symbols for their love shown with images and sounds that words can't convey (A picture is worth a thousand words). And then there is the dialogue where Lara says: "If we had children, Jurii, would like a boy or girl?" and he replies "We shall go mad if we think about all that," and she says "I shall always think about it," because she is pregnant and apparently he doesn't know it. And of course the ice-palace is the setting for Komarovsky's visit whisking Lara away as Jurii smashes the frozen window for his last glimpse of her. All very poignant in the frozen landscape of Varykino.
shareThat may be good intellectually, but I don't find it very satisfying entertainment-wise. The movie lurched between slow-paced, drawn-out sequences and scenes that just zipped by throughout.
Nothing that happens on Earth is unknown to Santa Claus!
I think many viewers find it satisfying emotionally too. It's true that the pace is erratic but Bolt had a huge challenge in condensing Pasternak's wandering novel into a three hour screenplay, and then we also have Lean's prediliction for cinematic effects that can overwhelm and subordinate the story to visual drama. But the result in this case is I think remarkably successful in conveying an intriguing and complex plot in a gorgeous setting so that it has a synergistic effect upon the viewer.
shareTrue, the problem is inherent in the source material, and as I've said many times before I think Bolt and Lean did about as good a job adapting Zhivago into a three hour movie as anyone could have. Still, there any number of flaws with the film, and on the whole I think Lean's Ryan's Daughter provides me a much more satisfying experience, on both an intellectual AND emotional level. I have an empathy for Charles and Rosy that I don't have for Yuri and Lara in this film (maybe Tonya, but that's another kettle of fish).
I'm not sure I want to spend anymore time criticizing one of my favorite movies, though... Perhaps we should leave it here.
Nothing that happens on Earth is unknown to Santa Claus!
Okay. Thanks for your input, Hancock.
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Bravo !
shareThis may have been pointed out already - haven't finished the thread BUT the actress who was running along side the train DID fall underneath it ! OS didn't release her hand when she yelled for him to do so (he couldn't hear her over the train) and she pulled away forcefully, lost her balance and fell underneath the moving train. She had the presence of mind to ball-up thus sparing her limbs amputation. If you watch real close, you can see her begin to fall. The scene wound up on the proverbial cutting room floor for obvious reasons.
shareOn the contrary, I never wanted the film to end !! I get completely lost in it.
I wanna take an open carriage/sleigh ride through those snow packed streets, wanna be on that bunk on the train with Yuri peering out that slotted window,
I wanna be in the engine of that train as it clears the tunnel, I wanna ride in Pashas (Stro ...?) train car, I wanna to feel the heat from those wood stoves on a frigid day,I wanna go to that party and smoke cigars and drink Vodka at Steigers table (before Lara shot him), I wanna curl up with Lara in that peasants bed or the bed in the room where Laras mother was treated, I wanna watch the Revolution go down from that balcony, I wanna be in the woods where that long shot of the train passing through that great open expanse was shot from, I wanna sit at Yuris desk and, with Lara in bed behind me,listen to the wolves cry and last but not least ... I wanna curl up next to Lara under those warm, cozy bed comforters and by the light and penetrating warmth radiating from the crackling fire begin ...
Oh, and clapping along to the peasant ladies dance in that box car looked like a lotta fun too. Did I mention being in bed with Lara and...oh yeah, I see that I did.
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