MovieChat Forums > Harold and Maude (1971) Discussion > What's wrong with living past 80?

What's wrong with living past 80?


I first saw this film over a decade ago and since then have been praising it to everyone I meet. However, I just watched it for the second time last night, and I'm starting to wonder if its as great of a film as I thought.
The part that really bugged me is this: I can't understand why Maude is so against living past 80. She says that the man at the funeral who died at 85 had lived too long.
Then, she, who claims to love life so much, ends it. Perhaps that's part of the message: that suicide is usually committed by people who are repulsed by life. Maude on the other hand truly loves life and yet opts out. Why?
I find it very cowardly and pretty short-sighted that for someone who claims to cherish life so much, she didn't at least try to experience the admittedly daunting but no less essential part of our life: bodily decay and death. She is still so vibrant and full of life in this film. Was she afraid to see what being immobile or even being in pain would feel like? Aren't both pain and pleasure crucial parts of life?
Perhaps she thought that she had seen enough pain in the Nazi concentration camps and believed that she was entitled to choose her time to go. She may have also, having seen so many others die at the hands of men, decided that it would be a rather empowering gesture to be able to control her own death.
I'm at a loss. I'm losing some of the faith that I had in Maude's suicide when I first saw the film. Thoughts?

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I can't understand why Maude is so against living past 80. She says that the man at the funeral who died at 85 had lived too long.


Maude believed that "at 85 you're just marking time."

Then, she, who claims to love life so much, ends it.


But life is not just about living, dying is a part of life as well and she seemed to want to die on her terms. It was obviously something she had planned before the events of the film even start, so it is tough to get a complete handle on all here motivations.

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I get that part about wanting to die on her own terms, particularly considering that she was a holocaust survivor. Having seen so many people die at the hands of other men, it must have been somewhat empowering for her to be able to choose when and how she would die. Thanks for commenting!

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My grandad had always said if he was ever "in charge" of the afterlife or whatever, (to be honest I'm not sure what he meant, if he expected to take on the role of God one day, lol) no one would live past 55. He said that because old age was a burden to him. His body was shutting down, he wasn't well and had a general drop in quality of life. I however always told him I hoped he never got to decide that for everyone else, because it certainly depends on how you feel about life. God knows, I have lived with depression, various anxieties and grim loneliness a lot of my life, but I also have a great fear of death and see no need to rush the process. If one is healthy, why not keep living, obviously. Where Maude was concerned, I think she felt her quality of life was about to get worse and what she was doing was fitting in as much joy and life as possible before deciding to end it. She didn't want to die from any physical or mental illness that would be painful or dreary. She wanted to end it while she still had good memories and such. I guess I understand that view, but yeah, I tend to think it's pointless for anyone in their golden years to kill themselves, lol, just because you might just as well ride it out. Chances are the end is closer than you think, old people

I know, grim, but just sayin'

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That was very eloquently put. I know what you're saying regarding a drop in the quality of life. I remember have a heated debate with a woman who was adamantly against suicide for any reason. We were talking about the then recent suicide of Hunter S. Thompson and how, as I understood it, Thompson just couldn't bear to be confined to a wheelchair when he had such a lively spirit.
I'm not trying to compare Maude with Thompson. But I do see Maude being pretty preventative in her suicide. After all, she didn't really seem to be suffering from any serious ailments in the film. Had the film maybe shown once instance where she felt some pain or experienced difficulty running or something, than I may have better understood that she could foresee the downward slide of her physical condition. But she was still alive and well in the movie. That's why her suicide was so puzzling to me. If anything, it seemed premature. Thank you for posting. I appreciate your insights.

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I don't know if you've seen any of the posts on this board that mention the novelization of this movie. Apparently in the book version Maude was in fact suffering from Alzheimer's or dementia and that was what had dimmed her enthusiasm about life. Also, just to add another two cents on a side note, many people, including some commentators on this board are against suicide, using the ever popular selfishness reasoning. But the way I see it, that can go both ways. I consider suicide a personal choice and while I understand the view of how those left behind are going to feel, why would it not be considered selfish to want to see a loved one suffer physically or mentally just for one's own peace of mind? Especially if they can't or won't really do anything to make sure they get help if depression is the reasoning behind the choice. That is definitely still a taboo subject for many. But people will suffer the same loss, grief and emotions whether a death is deliberate, accidental or comes after a long illness. If someone feels they can find an end to their suffering, while their loss will be felt, it could maybe at least give comfort that they aren't suffering anymore. But everyone feels a different way about it. I don't judge anyone for such a choice. I didn't live their life. So it isn't like I would really know.

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Apparently in the book version Maude was in fact suffering from Alzheimer's or dementia and that was what had dimmed her enthusiasm about life.


It has been a while since I read the novel, but I don't recall anything like that. From what I recall the book followed the screenplay very well. I recall added insight and descriptions of Harold's tricks and the devices he used, but nothing on health issues with Maude.

I did a text search of the novelization (http://haroldandmaudehomepage.com/xhiggins.txt) for terms like alzheimer, dementia, memory, dim. Dementia and alzheimer are not in it, and the other terms there is nothing in the area suggesting her suffering in that regard.

What passages within the book make it apparent to to you or even offer that suggestion to you?

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I haven't read the book, I'm going completely off of other threads on this board, as I did in fact mention in my comment above. So I can't vouch for the validity of that information. I'm not sure how to link threads (if that's possible here) but it was brought up in the thread about Maude being selfish for killing herself. The word "apparently" was used in this case to mean supposedly: synonyms: seemingly, evidently, as far as one knows, by all accounts, not to say it was obvious in any way.

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sdckapr, The possibility that Maude had the beginnings of alzheimers or dementia was mentioned in the Trivia section here on IMDB. What was discussed was that Maude's picture frames had no pictures in them, because she took them out as,she explained, their sharpness mocked her fading memories, suggesting that she was suffering from alzheimers or dementia. This bit about the picture frames might have been in the novelization, or maybe the original script but the scene had been cut out. At any rate, I don't think from the movie alone as it was released that there was any indication of anything wrong with Maude, but the poster here who mentioned the mental issue definitely got that information from the Internet Movie Data Base.

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There is nothing wrong with living past 80, it just wasn't what Maude wanted. Maude was quirky and had her own ideas about how to live and, apparently, when to die. For whatever reason, she liked "80" and considered it to be a good age to go. I've given some thought to perfect ages as well. 80 has a lot to recommend for it. It's considered a "ripe" age and, for someone like Maude, it would be before dementia or other infirmities set in. Again, this had a lot to do with how she chose to live her life.

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There is nothing wrong with living past eighty now. But this is forty years after the film's release. People live longer, stay healthier longer.

I think that at the time of the actual story 1971, being eighty seemed ancient. Now in 2014, there are so many healthy people in their nineties, suicides at 80 seem ridiculous. I suppose if Maude knew she was getting Parkinson's or some other debilitating disease, she would be justified in committing suicide at 80, but the film does not indicate this.

I have always loved the film but think it has not aged well. I just have to accept it as a story of time and place and pretend Maude is 90 or 100.

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Good point, Watergarden. That's a problem I continue to wrestle with in the film. As you said, were she suffering from an illness, then her suicide would be justified, but without a real reason, the viewer is left a little mystified. I'd like more clarification.

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LyndaLexi
I was young when this movie came out. My sister, who is 8 yrs older than I, loved this movie. I remember her making me watch it, and I liked it because of Harold's fake suicide attempts and the idea (never saw it) that he and Maude had sex... kinda crazy.... The Sundance channel played it recently and I DVR'd it. I and my 18 yr old son watched it today - I loved it so much more while he was confused. I had to explain many things. But, I admit that I didn't remember the tatooed numbers on her arm, which meant that she was a holocaust survivor, hence her comments about cages and being caged.That was an awakening for me as to why she behaved the way she did. I also remembered a completely different ending - I remembered her as being ill with cancer, and Harold found her dead- wrong!! As to why she committed suicide herself when she had shown how much she embraced life, I agree with other posters that she chose to 'go out' while she was still healthy, still coherent, still free. At the time the movie was set and filmed, 80 was really old - compared to 90 or 100 by today's standards. At one time, she had been in a concentration camp, had no control over anything in regards to herself, was able to escape, appreciate her freedom and life, but also had control as to when she could be done. Considering she had been in a concentration camp and survived is monument in itself. 'They' didn't end her life, she chose when that would be. Unfortunately Harold came into her life too late.

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That's the best answer I've heard, Lynda. I completely agree with you and you have officially laid this question to rest. The having control over when she would die, considering how others had so forcefully controlled other times in her life, seems like a natural explaination that I can accept.
I may have also misinterpreted Maude as being someone who wanted to embrace all aspects of life. She was such an optimist, so playful, so experimental. I took this to mean that she was open also to the darker side of life, to the slow decay of one's body into death, an admittedly important part of life despite its discomfort. I was critical of Maude, thinking that she was someone who valued every facet of life, for being kind of hypocritical by skipping out in the final stage. But, as you mentioned in your explaination, she had already experienced her share of horror and pain. She should be permitted one indulgence, considering her past.

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My take on Maude's suicide is that she probably sensed she was getting sick with something. And she's alone in the world so who was going to take care of her when she was dying? A nursing home? Personally I hope I won't die in a nursing home as they're horrible places and Maude didn't seem like she would want to die in a nursing home either.

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Nicolehering, I agree with what you said in your comment. I have read that the largest age group for suicides is the elderly. There are many reasons for this, but I could definitely imagine the main element of it is coming to a point where one cannot take care of themselves. No one wants to be helpless or a burden to others. A nursing home is a terrible answer--very expensive, and very horrible conditions, I can definitely see a person killing themselves if their only option for care is a nursing home. While I am 20 to 30 years away from this being a problem for me, I do think about it. I am not married and even if I were, I dislike the idea of having to have my wife take care of a helpless me; I'd rather just "disappear". I think this is a usual concept among various tribal people, the very old Native American who rides off into the sunset or the Eskimo who walks off onto an ice floe and floats out to sea. I'm not sure I would have the courage to do that kind of thing, but I do contemplate that as a possibility. Or maybe by then I would have the ability to choose the time of my own death and then simply go to bed and die. There have been stories of people doing that, and I also believe that my mother chose the time of her own death. She did not kill herself, but got various affairs in order and a few days later, died in her sleep.

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I think the reference in the book had to do with a scene that gave a reason why Maude's photo frames were empty. It's in the trivia section here on IMDb, if I'm remembering correctly. The scene got cut from the final, but in it, she explains to Harold that she took the photos out of the frames because they "mocked" her in a way that indicated she was starting to lose her memories of who they were, thereby suggesting the onset of dementia or Alzheimer's.

And honestly, having watched my own father succumb to Alzheimer's, I've already told my husband and adult son that if I ever get Alzheimer's myself, while I still have the presence of mind to do it, I'm going to commit suicide. It's a horrible, horrible, horrible illness, incredibly painful for the family who must watch their loved one succumb to it. Even in a vegetative state, a person can continue to live for several years. I won't put my family through that. If it means I shorten my life by a few years, so be it. I found Maude's actions completely credible.

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Well, first off, the film and the novel are fiction, with a broad comedic viewpoint so there are deep points made but there can be too much meaning attached to 80 as the age Maude decided to end her life. Certainly that she had been a Holocaust survivor is an important factor. However this is one of those movies that the viewer brings his or her own values to and takes their own unique set of interpretations away from the viewing. What I take out of this film at 67 is quite different than when I first saw it at 24.

As far as dementia or other disability impacting on the thoughts of suicide, that is really a very personal decision. I find I cannot quarrel with anybody's decision arrived at rationally to take their own life. If they are suffering from depression that could be mitigated with mood elevating drugs then that would be a shame but still their decision to make.

What was illustrative to me was watching a very vibrant older women, in love with life, detect the early stages of dementia. She was distressed as it progressed as she was aware of the loss of capability. Eventually, however, she reached the stage of a 3 year old and was no longer distressed. She no longer knew my name but she recognized me as someone who was a friend and was happy to see. She was quite happy cutting out colorful pictures out of magazines. Her daughter and other relatives were quite distressed but she was happy. Should she have committed suicide to save her children the distress of seeing her suffering from dementia? I don't think so as that was their issue, not hers. What I realized was that she loved life no matter what diminished capabilities she experienced. That living, even if it meant being happy cutting out pretty pictures, was preferable to the alternative of snuffing out her candle forever.

So it really is up to each of us to make our own decision. I can't possibly know what my thoughts might be if I begin to suffer dementia. I can only opine on that should it happen. I may be very happy living a life cutting out pretty pictures, sitting on a green lawn, hearing the rustling of leaves, feeling the warm breeze, experience the sun on my face. Astrophysicist Stephen Hawking seems to be quite happy, keeping his sense of humor even though he has lost virtually all motor control. All I can conclude is that a spark of life, however diminished, may be sufficiently precious given the alternative and I cannot make such a decision for myself until faced with the possibility and certainly it would wildly presumptuous for me to offer my opinion as to what somebody else should do. The discussion is of value, consequently should continue.

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I think the Hawking example seems a poor analogy. In Hawking's case, what makes him who he is, is essentially still there. His body may be gone, but his mind is intact and he can still make informed decisions.

With dementia, the body is there, but the "person" who used to exist is no longer there, the mind deteriorates. And while it may make no difference to the dementia sufferer, I worry about the family, slowly losing their loved one, until the only thing existing is a shell of what they once were.

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I think most people look to get into their eighties now. As long there is a reasonable quality of life. And Maude's quality life seemed excellent. I think she should have left it till she really had become tired of life.

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