Whattt?! - Harold and Maude (1971) Discussion

[–] Can_a_bitch_get_a_donut 17 years ago

Age is only a number, and you'll be her age someday as well.

If you are Jesus Christ and are 100% proud of it, copy this and make it your signature!

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[–] CharmedGirlyGirl 17 years ago

Yeah, I know age is just a number. When I am her age one day I won't be doing a 20 year old.

Nor when I am 20 I won't be doing an 80 year old.

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[–] Can_a_bitch_get_a_donut 17 years ago

Your loss, little girl.

If you are Jesus Christ and are 100% proud of it, copy this and make it your signature!

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] CharmedGirlyGirl 17 years ago

Scannon. .

That is what every single kid in my class was asking. I have no idea why. We had to watch it and then write an essay on it. And our thesis we had to write about was
"Harold is the symbol of death and Maude gave him life" And we had to explain why and such.
Weird but we watched it. First time I heard and seen the movie.

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] crazyj89 17 years ago

Possibly because film can be another expression of literature, even if it's not a movie based on a Shakespeare play. Maybe the teacher did like it, but even so, it's still literature (but in the form of a film), and I think it can teach some life lessons.

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] crazyj89 17 years ago

I disagree. While I think most life lessons are learned on your own, I think books and films can influence you, too. Just because Harold and Maude isn't 'classical literature' doesn't mean it was a "waste of time".

Film is just an extension of literature - even if it's a horrible film. It still has a script and a large, written element. It just has another dimension to it - photography.

Just because you watched a film that wasn't made from a book you read (Harold and Maude is a novel, too) doesn't mean it doesn't belong in English class.

But that's just my opinion and I'm sure I won't persuade you at all. :)

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[–] BadwanSixx 15 years ago

eew xD
sound like a "been there, done that" answer xD

--
Cake or Death

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[–] suzycreamcheese1 14 years ago

thats exactly what I was going to say, mynew! You beat me to it!

RIP Heath Ledger 1979-2008

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[–] MTRodaba2468 17 years ago

Yeah, I know age is just a number. When I am her age one day I won't be doing a 20 year old.

You say that now...

:)
---
#1 Wee Man Fan
http://mtrodaba2468.dvdaf.com

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[–] GeorgyGirl 17 years ago

Not even if he looks like Bud Cort?

If you're 80 and you pass that up - now *that's* crazy.

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[–] CharmedGirlyGirl 16 years ago

Quote by GeorgyGirl
"Not even if he looks like Bud Cort?"
---

Who is Bud Cort???

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[–] sdckapr 16 years ago

Who is Bud Cort???

Bud Cort is the actor who played Harold Chasen in the film.

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[–] Gus-69 10 years ago

Are you an idiot?

----------------------
http://mulhollandcinelog.wordpress.com/

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[–] zacies_hot 10 years ago

Not even if he looks like Bud Cort?

If you're 80 and you pass that up - now *that's* crazy.

No *beep* That is crazy! At any age, I'd do ANYTHING to have someone like Bud; cut off my right arm, sell my soul, ETC. You name it!

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[–] kaseynaa 17 years ago

real love has nothing to do with age.

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[–] jvogwell 17 years ago

last year we had to write about the makers of x men portraying the mutants etc
and other people did the truman show.
this is just like media studies.
plus the teather probably did like the film =]

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] Valentino55 17 years ago

CharmedGirlyGirl:

You are not alone. I once took a little heat on this board for defending someone who was repulsed by Harold and Maude's physical relationship.

First, let me say that I do like this movie. It's fun and it sends a good message: that love is irrespective of race, gender, age, social class, etc. I get all that. But I also found Maude to be a little annoying. She calls herself a free spirit, and she is; but she uses that mantra to justify her behavior, that behavior being the following: that EVERYTHING is ok. Stealing cars? Granted, those scenes were certainly hilarious, but I also wanted to slap here.

Also, come on! All you 20 year old guys out there - I challenge you to admit that you wouldn't hop into bed with an elderly woman. It's okay to go ahead and say it; it doesn't mean you're uptight or "establishment."

Good movie, good message (love life), but it's ok to be a little weirded out.

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[–] A_Fistful_of_Pennies 16 years ago

What's wrong with it? They love each other. It doesn't matter what you look like or your age if you love someone. That's kind of a big point of the movie.

And of course I wouldn't hop in bed with an elderly woman. But this guy chose to and that's his choice. Why is it wrong?

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[–] CharmedGirlyGirl 16 years ago

because its gross!

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[–] artistoartist 16 years ago

So, uh..."CharmedGirlyGirl" because she has aged and has the wear and tear that goes with it she should be discouraged to share herself with someone who wants and loves her?

She's too gross for that? At what age should people shut down and stop having consensual sex...when they don't appeal to mass youth? Should have he been kept away from her against his will? He connected with her in a deep way and saw past her age. So what other "gross" people be restricted and marginalised? We have Age ticked off the list, how about those with congential defects and injuries? They don't look the standard of attractiveness on the surface....I guess they don't have anything to offer in a relationship if they are not conventualy "hot"...I mean isn't that what's all important? Hotness? What's personality, experience, character & love mean if your breasts are sagging and wrinkled? Right? So, when your Girly girl-ness wears away over the years you better step aside and bottle up any "gross" feelings you may have, and keep off to the corner somewhere, unless of course you want to be the walking punchline to some hot young public's idea of a joke.

Maude's character had far more charm than you could ever hope to have.

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[–] CharmedGirlyGirl 16 years ago

I think it's gross when someone as young as Harold has sex with someone whos old yeah! It's disgusting. I would never have sex with someone who is that much older than I was!!!!

AND I never said hotness had to do with love. I just said its gross that he had sex with someone who is 80 or 90 years old! thats gross!

Plus I don't have to worry about my 'girly girl-ness' as you put it wearing away for another 70-80 years thank you. Even then.. when I am 70 or 80 years old I wont want to have sex with someone who is in there 20s. Thats gross even if I was Maudes age. you have your opinion i have mine.

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[–] artistoartist 16 years ago

"Plus I don't have to worry about my 'girly girl-ness' as you put it wearing away for another 70-80 years thank you."

Really?, that long? Are you the product of some long term medical experiment? Or saving for a plastic surgery fund instead of a college fund? So, let's say that you are what you sound like, say about 13 yrs. old if I want to give you the benefit of the doubt and ADD a few years for maturity.....so you expect to be 83-93 years old and full of girly-girlness until then? And if so, and you are in a signifcant romantic/spousal/relationship and you feel full of energy and life like Maude intimacy is out of the question because you are in an offically "gross" time of life?

Hey, its not about YOU wanting to have sex or not with an older person, (to each his/her own, you like short or tall or redheads or youthful or older and I don't care) its your BLANKET statement that it is gross, period, because by taking your argument to its natural direction, Maude and anyone older is gross. However, if a legally consenting someone loves & sees something sexually attractive in her or a person like her, good for him/her. Good for both of them! Sex is life affirming, and if an adult feels healthy enough to engage in it, (no matter what the outside package looks like) and with a loving partner, that's great! Maude is not gross, she is old. That is what is offensive about your posts. As someone who is a professional elderly aide, I find blanket limiting/negative descriptions of their feelings, intelligence, skills, capacity for relationships, capacity for intimate relationships, along with surly contempt for the elderly's physical external appearance as downright ageist.

If you wanted to pose the thread as: I cannot understand why someone younger would want someone so much older.......that is one thing. You admit your own subjective tastes and also limitations of your understanding & empathy for others who feel differently as your own inexperience/immaturity. That still opens the subject up for discussion of different viewpoints.

However, when you make the blanket retort that its. just. GROSS! (your post after the who is Bud Cort one) You are making an ignorant blanket bigoted judgement....and expect a wave of negative criticism right back at you.

While you are in school, take a debating class, brush up on your math skills, and stick to the Hannah Montana Disney flicks until you are mature enough to manage stories about different aspects of life that may seem so icky poo to a child. And do take some time to THINK...

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[–] GeorgyGirl 16 years ago

For the record, I'm 44 tomorrow and my fiance turns 20 in November. Trust me - being "gross" ROCKS. ;)

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[–] jemaniac 15 years ago

You're my idol.

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[–] Six-Shooter 14 years ago

Sure. It's all right when an 80-year-old woman sleeps with a twnety-year-old man. But if the roles were reversed, the man would be going door-to-door making a certain announcement. That's why it's weird.

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] sdckapr 13 years ago

Why don't people on this board grasp the very simple concept that two 80 year olds exchanging bodily fluids no one has a problem with, the problem is with the age gap.

That seems to be your issue. But it seems to me that most people grasp that the idea is about love. Now personally if I want to watch a sex scene in a film I would prefer it to be a good looking young couple. I don't want to see a sex scene with either one, let alone both 80 yr olds. I really don't even want to see 50 yr olds having sex. But the film is about love and the expression of that love.

I hear all this 'love has nothing to do with age', you could just as easily argue that 'love doesn't have to be consummated with sex'.

I agree with both. But just because it does not have to be consummated, does not mean that people shouldn't express it in that way.

Sex is the natural way to reproduce. But it has become more than that in many relationships.

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] sdckapr 13 years ago

Considering the discomfort regarding the sex scene is the most frequently discussed topic on this board

What do you base this on? I just don't see it as the "the most frequently discussed topic on this board".

Also I have seen the film several times. The versions I have seen on a college campus, the VHS version, the DVD, nor the version I saw on TCM have a sex scene in it. Where exactly is this "sex scene" in the film? Is is a special feature on a particular DVD edition?

I think that stating it is 'my issue' is rather silly.

I apologize. I did not mean to suggest it was ONLY your issue. The issue is with anyone who is intolerant of love in its many forms.

All I can tell you is this, if it is as perfectly acceptable as you seem to think it is, why does it feel so wrong to so many of us.

I don't know, but many feel the same way about gay and lesbian love. Many religions feel any sex is wrong outside of procreation and most also feel it is unacceptable outside of marriage. H&M do not seem to feel this way.

The attitude of the it NOT being acceptable seems to me as being portrayed in the film as "wrong". The point about love seem to be a part of the story (and considering that the writer was gay and created a foundation that bestows award to to "youth activists who have demonstrated bravery in the face of discrimination, intolerance and bigotry based on gender identity and/or sexual orientation.") I think there are allusions to gay love in the film.

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] sdckapr 13 years ago

Umm, based on the number of threads on this board and the fact that the majority of them concern the sex scene.

There are close to 100 threads and don't see anywhere near 50% being about a sex scene.

You know very well that whenever anyone refers to the 'sex scene' they are referring to the scene when Harold is smoking after having sex with Maude.

But that is NOT a "sex scene". It is not a scene of people engaged in a sex act. As mentioned in another post. I infer that they had sex (and I think the film means to imply that they had sex) but it is not definite. But even with that implication it does not make a sex scene any more than someone can complain about the TV series "I Love Lucy" had a sex scene in it since they show Lucy pregnant. We can infer that they had sex, but there is "no sex scene"

Intolerant of love? What a ridiculous statement.

I think it is a perfectly apt statement. The film shows a couple in love and implies that they express it to themselves in a physical manner, which to me is a natural thing.

By your rationale however, love equates to a need to have sex.

I never said that. Some have a need for sex even without love and their are types of love that don't have a need for the physical expression. That depends on the individual. For many couples, a romantic love often causes a desire to be expressed in a physical manner. It is a natural urge and desire.

It true that Harold and Maude didn't do anything that was illegal but it is certainly socially frowned upon.

And that is what to me makes it intolerant attitude.

Would you still be condoning this blindly if they were cousins or if their ages were reversed?

If cousins (or siblings) there are legal (and genetic issues). But people can be tolerant of even reversed ages. (see the Twilight series, were a 108 yr old acts like what some would term a pedophile (though more accurately it would be called ephebophilia). Here desire is almost "necrophilic" with some shades of "bestiality as well". Also look at the film Entrapment with Sean Connery and Catherine Zeta-Jones (or Zeta-Jones real relationship with a man old enough to be her father).

I don't know that if anyone is even arguing that the sex was 'wrong', I just felt that it didn't enforce the point of their relationship and was therefore unecessary.

I disagree. It showed them to be lovers, more than friends. She was also more than a (grand)mother figure and more than a mentor.

How on earth you link a young boy having sex with an old woman to homosexuality, I have absolutely no idea.

Look at the arguments people make. It is perverse. Even though they are both consenting adults, people (you including) mention "young boy". In the past there have also been comments about sex recreation vs procreation and that Maude can not have children (like homosexuals can not have children).

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] taylorvela 16 years ago

Um... Correction. Hes 16, and shes 79. She kills herself on her 8th birthday. HUGE part of the movie.

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[–] MrFriendlyThrowsLikeAGirl 16 years ago

Where did you get that he was sixteen? His mother wants him to get married and then go into the army. He is twenty.

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[–] leosblueblanket88 16 years ago

He's definitely not that young (though he could easily pass for 16, I'll admit). I'm almost certain he's 19 or 20.

I want...I want...I WANT EVERYTHING I'VE EVER SEEN IN THE MOVIES!

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[–] sdckapr 16 years ago

I'm almost certain he's 19 or 20.

Bud Cort was actually 23 when he made the film. The script indicates when Harold is introduced/described: "HAROLD, a young man of about twenty" and in the novel when Mrs Chasen decides Harold is to be married she states: "You are nineteen, almost twenty."

[Note: Ruth Gordon was not quite 75 but playing someone who turns 80 within the film.]

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[–] perniciouspen@hotmail.com 16 years ago

The OP says that the age difference between Harold and Maude makes the sexual aspect 'gross'...typical reaction. A young guy shags an old woman and it's 'gross'...no one says anything when an actor in his 60's or 70's has a relationship in a film with a much younger woman..that, apparently is fine.

Also the OP states she is 44, and her partner is nearly 20. Well how is she going to feel in another 5 years or so when her 25 yr old partner thinks that the prospect of sex with a sagging, loose 55 yr old body is 'gross'? Or when she's 65 and he's still a fit, firm 30 yrs old?

And if she thinks that that will never happen coz her partner loves her too much to care...well that's exactly how Harold feels.

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[–] ClassicFilmEra 16 years ago

One of the thousands of reasons why I love, love Harold and Maude, is BECAUSE they spend the night together! It truly shows that love has no age boundaries, and that personality, character, companionship, compassion, and of course, love, is what really matters! I like that many people are *shocked* at the thought of them sleeping together, because some of those people actually reconsider their beliefs of age difference. The *shock* factor is also a great test of emotional intelligence- who can look past the ages, and who cannot. This may sound "gross" to some, but I wouldn't mind dating someone decades older than myself. For me, love is love.

"So I'll always know where it is."

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[–] CharmedGirlyGirl 16 years ago

perniciouspen--- I didn't state im 44 and my partner is 20. im 17. i thnk your getting another poster mixed up with what I said originally.
I know this is all about love but still. I wouldnt date anyone who is THAT much older than me let alone sleep with them. There like 60 years apart.

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[–] 16 years ago

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[–] bunny226622 16 years ago

LoL!This is one of the funniest threads I've read in this site in a while! You people should be ashamed for insulting and yelling at this 17 year old girl who is giving you the honest reaction of a teenager to this scenario. CharmedGirlyGirl, you have no reason to feel ashamed of your reaction to this. You go with your gut, girl! All you people are just being soooo PC about this. Oh, I'm not shallow, you are because you don't want to bang an 80 year old! I must be better than you! Please, quit with your absurd lecture! You're all so posturing and facetious! If you all want to have sex with someone incredibly older or younger than you, go ahead, but there's nothing wrong with those that don't. It makes me think of the ep on Sex & the City where Samantha has an affair with some guy in his 80's and the sex is so great and when she finally gets a look at his naked wrinkly behind with the light on, well that's the end of that! Truth.

Why don't the evil just get regular jobs like the rest of us?--V.Mars

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[–] ClassicFilmEra 16 years ago

"...who is giving you the honest reaction of a teenager to this scenario."

Why are you stereotyping teenagers? I'm only 14 and I'm okay with varied-age relationships. You're saying that most teenagers have CharmedGirlyGirl's mindset/opinion.

And another thing "bunny226622", not everyone on here is arguing with the seventeen year-old. In fact, alot of us respect her opinion, and are merely stating our ours.

"So I'll always know where it is."

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[–] bunny226622 16 years ago

I never said "most" teenagers. I was talking about the OP's reaction to the movie and saying that she has the right to feel however she feels about this. Okay, that's nice that you are 14 and comfortable with the whole thing but I stand by my opinion that a typical teenager would be either turned off by the sexual relationship between a 20 year old with an 80 year old or they would find it something to make fun of.

"And another thing "bunny226622", not everyone on here is arguing with the seventeen year-old. In fact, alot of us respect her opinion, and are merely stating our ours."

I did notice a couple really nasty comments (one of which I reported as it contained foul language and it was deleted) and although most of the comments are stating their opinion, some of their statements translate to the effect of "you're only mature, or have depth, or have intelligence if you have no negative reaction to any part of this movie." That is condescending and insulting. Some of comments I read, though well composed, didn't convey that they had one ounce of "respect" for this girl. Has anyone considered that it's okay for her to feel that way, that's where she's at now at 17 and that perhaps when she is 30 or 40, she will see the movie from different perspective? Is this some race where if she is a teenager and doesn't see it from a 30 or 40 year old perspective right now, she must be beneath or behind everyone else here and must be made to feel that way?

I'm also curious. With all the posters who talk big about this like they're so tolerant of it, how come you never see it happen or rarely see it happen? If the world were actually so accepting of that kind of wide of an age-range relationship or maybe I should say people interested in having a relationship of that type, how come you almost never see it happen? And someone on this thread said something about if it were reversed, if the girl were young and the guy was old, it would be accepted. I so doubt it.

"Which lever do I pull to be crushed by a safe?"-Karen(Will & Grace)

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[–] ClassicFilmEra 16 years ago

I completely agree with everything you stated. A large majority of teenagers would be disgusted with that element of Harold and Maude- but I am not one of them. I don't want to be labeled as "everyone else."

Yes, there are a couple of nasty, intollerant comments, those of which state that you are shallow if you find their relationship repulsive, but I find most of them to be respectful otherwise.

I'm curious about that as well...how many people would actually follow through with this kind of relationship. (I would, and I mean that honestly. I don't think my opinion will change as I grow older, either.)

"Has anyone considered that it's okay for her to feel that way, that's where she's at now at 17 and that perhaps when she is 30 or 40, she will see the movie from different perspective? Is this some race where if she is a teenager and doesn't see it from a 30 or 40 year old perspective right now, she must be beneath or behind everyone else here and must be made to feel that way?"

I hope that wasn't directed solely at me, let alone me at all, because I don't think less of anyone who's opinion differs from mine. Opinions don't always reflect intelligence, or "depth." In this case, it reflects values and morals only, which is why my original post does not put anyone down. I merely stated my opinion, which was not meant to prove others wrong (Especially when there isn't a 'right' or 'wrong' answer.)

"So I'll always know where it is."

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[–] Sburt4-1 16 years ago

I personally feel that if you feel affection for someone age shouldn't be an issue. That is only me. I am thirty one. I know how it feels to be attracted to soneones personalty even when they are older then you.

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[–] rosebank14 16 years ago

great film, no need for the bedroom scene though, all I can think now is he shagged an 80 year old woman. I find it disturbing. I know some of you don't care about this but face facts, most people will think it's sick.

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[–] sdckapr 16 years ago

most people will think it's sick.

What do you think is "sick": that someone would love an 80-yr old woman enough to have sex with them or that a 20 year old could? It is not done in a graphic way.

If I am going to watch actual sex (or even simulated sex) in a movie or on TV I personally would prefer to see 20-25 year old women who are in shape since I find them more attractive than older or out-of-shape women. But my preference for seeing them is not dependent on what the male looks like or how old he is.

Yes some might find it "sick" to think of that an 80-year-old is having sex (just as some do not like the thought that their own parents had sex). But more the point of the film is that if you love someone, sex can be a natural presentation of that love.

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[–] your_mofo 16 years ago

OP - It's funny how someone can watch a film and COMPLETELY miss the point of it.
Harold and Maude, whatever the age gap - they rock.

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[–] raymondhng 16 years ago

"20 goes into 80 easier than 80 going into 20!" --Sophie Tucker

Perhaps this bit of trivia will console your traumatized mind.

Bud Cort appeared in person at the Castro Theatre in San Francisco last night after a special screening of Harold and Maude and during the Q&A session, he assured us that he did not lose his virginity to Ruth Gordon.

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[–] goldengirlfanatic 16 years ago

Just weighing in, since I recently watched it for the first time. As a fairly young (22) gal, albeit a pretty open-minded one, I thought it was utterly lovely. But then again, I went in to it knowing they were going to have an intimate relationship, so I was ready, I guess you could say. I could see how it would shock/squick someone unprepared.

Quite honestly, if when I turn 80 I am single, I would be delighted to find a companion like Harold, and I'd most certainly go for it. Or, to quote Blanche from "Golden Girls": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iN5SBEolHN0

Right now, would I be intimate with a man of that age? I can't say for sure; perhaps I would fall in love and want it, but I can't imagine that situation. Oddly enough, I think I WOULD be more inclined for physical intimacy with an older woman (yes, I am bisexual) than an older man.

But to the point at hand: people are taking offense because of the insinuation that the elderly cannot be sexually attractive. And I agree. People cite the age difference, but what is disturbing about age discrepancy between two souls that love one another? It is the physical intercourse that puts a lot of people off, and that implies that sexual attractiveness is solely for youth (which may be true for some, but certainly isn't for everyone).

Oh, and somebody asked why, if some people wanted to do them, more of these relationships don't exist. What about the social pressure to not engage in them? Just looking at this board, it's obvious that a modern-day, real-life Harold and Maude (or their gender-reversed age-discrepant pair) would receive odd looks, degradation, snide remarks. The younger of the two would get ribbing from his peers (or concern from hers), and the older would certainly be frowned upon as encouraging it. I'm not saying that such relationships are desired by a lot of people who aren't acting on it because of such intolerance; obviously it's a minority. But you still have to ask yourself how much an effect it has (compounded by today's youth-obsessed culture and our tendency to shuttle away older folks into care homes and retirement centers).

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[–] ClassicFilmEra 16 years ago

Well put, "goldengirlfanatic"! All of your points are so true! Despite the social pressure and influence, I would have no problem being in a relationship with an older man. If the man loves me and makes me happy, then so be it. I'm just one of those people who doesn't see intercourse as being solely for the youth. Older people can still be attractive!!

"So I'll always know where it is."

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[–] smoko 15 years ago

goldengirlfanatic

But the lips of Maude's vagine hang low like wizard's sleeve. Yuck.

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[–] Brysonashultz 16 years ago

I really don't see what's so repulsive about it...they love each other, so why shouldn't they have sex? If Harold had been 15 or something (underage at any rate), then I could see what the big deal is, but disapproving it just because it's "gross"?? That makes no sense at all! Sure it's gross, but who are any of us to say whether it's right or wrong?

"How you ever got to teach a course in anything is totally amazing." - Annie Hall

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[–] beautyinabreakdown 16 years ago

I have to say, I was a bit grossed out, because I'm 14, but if you love someone - age shouldn't matter.

JASPER HALE <3 Nothing like a bit of southern comfort . . . ;)

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