Were the moon landings faked?

"What I see is that astronaut is directly exposed to some source of light. According to yours previous answers this is one more evidence (that whole thing is FAKE) to conclude that this is artificial source, of course!"

Diffuse reflection.

"If it was morning there and the sun was still low which means
that ultraviolet light was still very harmless..."

No, it does not.

"First satellite in space "Sputnik","

Yes.

"first animal in space,"

No.

"first man in space, first space walk"

Yes.

"first crew of 3 astronauts"

Three people crammed aboard a spacecraft built for two. The U.S. produced a three-man craft.

"first ever of two simultaneously orbiting spacecraft's."

True but irrelevant; the U.S. produced the first real rendezvous.

You have not studied Gemini, so you are ignorant of the progress made in the U.S. space program *after* the events you mentioned. Therefore you are unqualified to make a historical judgment of who was ahead in, say, 1967.

"I questioned why they hide their faces with black visors
because I want to see their faces..."

You prejudicially concluded they were hiding.

"I don't accept that such severe low temperature on moon planet exist in orbit around the Earth."

I don't care. I do thermodynamics for a living. You do not, and admit that you know nothing of it. What you choose to believe is irrelevant. I deal in facts. You deal in "perfect knowledge" that is demonstrably wrong. Show me your thermodynamic calculations and then I will agree that you have the basis to disbelieve observable fact. I am a space engineer. You are not. You are arguing with an expert from a position of ignorance.

"He doesn't want to offend the other scientists."

So your religion denies the reality of the Cold War? For a *decade* the Soviets and Americans fought to outdo each other in space, and then all of a sudden the Soviets agree *not* to expose the U.S. in the greatest space achievement of all time, which you now seem to argue they knew was fake! Total hogwash!

"I don't know why you recall God if you are atheist?"

I'm not an atheist. But neither am I brainwashed religious fanatic.

"God supplies everything what they need for good and peaceful life, food, water, cloth, etc. They don't need John Deere, Monsanto, etc."

Hogwash.

"And about superiority, yes I have superior knowledge because I have Vedas and Srila Prabhupada, that is fact, sorry."

LOL!

"No, I just said that I have right to call you with that names because that is unfortunately your temporary state of mind."

Oh that's right. I keep forgetting you think I'm crazy and need a psychiatrist. That's what gives you the right to call me names.

"I just present facts and I don't have purposed to offend you personally."

No, you DON'T present facts. You simply state your beliefs as if they were facts, and you don't condone anyone trying to question to see whether they ARE facts. Don't you understand the difference between belief and fact? I certainly do.

"I will skip all your next nonsense words about Srila Prabhupada. It's not worthy even second to answer them and to lose my variable time with you. I must say that in my whole life I never read biggest foolishness and lies about my Guru."

Your leader is calling me a liar! What makes you think I don't have the right to defend myself against his accusations. When I study his accusations I find that they are based on HIS misunderstanding of what I do and who I am. It doesn't matter to me that you've chosen to venerate him as some sort of prophet or saint. To venerate someone who is demonstrably wrong in his criticism is foolishness to me.

"So in the end my question still remains (to you for "observations")
>>> WHY
Sunday (SUN-DAY),
Monday (MOON-DAY),
…
Saturday (SATURN-DAY) ?"

Oh, but you left out the days that don't fit your pattern. What about Tuesday? What about Wednesday? What about Thursday and Friday? They don't tell us anything about planets, and they're the majority of the week.

Why does your "pattern" only work in the English language? In French, for example, the first day of the Judeo-Christian week is "dimanche", literally meaning "The Lord's day." Nothing again to do with planets.

And on most business calendars these days the first day is Monday, not Sunday.

The names of the days in English come in some cases from German and in other cases from Latin. There's no rhyme or reason to them, and no order that we respect in those derivations. Further, the whole notion of a "week" comes from Judaism, and they simply used ordinal numbers!

Your attempt to prove the "real" order of the heavenly bodies from the English days of the week ignores that all that came about as a hodge-podge of unrelated effects.

That's your answer.

AtR II


Diffuse reflection.
*** Hahaha, very funny. ***
No, it does not.
*** You said no, so your answer is that even in the morning when sun is very low ultraviolet light is so harmful for astronauts that they must protect there eyes and faces with black visors. You said in some of previous letter:
1) "However, even with the sun low in the sky, astronauts will still get a full dose of ultraviolet because they're standing up and presenting a more direct-facing surface to the sun."
2) "The astronauts' faces are vertical and so occasionally face directly toward the sun. This makes them absorb energy more directly, and thus protection is required."
3) "They are covered to protect them from the sun's harmful rays."
So what about http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a11/as11-40-5875HR.jpg picture where I can see that "sun" is high? Why he is not afraid to get full dose of harmful ultraviolet rays? ***
You have not studied Gemini,
*** Yes, I don't have time to studied all of this but I read something. ***
so you are ignorant of the progress made in the U.S. space program *after* the events you mentioned.
*** Maybe, but your progress is very suspicious for only few years, from 1967 - and Disaster at Cape Kennedy you get to Moon landing, this is unbelievable! We talk about Russian space domination and circumstances BEFORE 1969 "lunar landing." So, this does not have any sense that Russians whose almost achieve always first in "Moon" project didn't even try go to moon with man's crew. Russian astronaut Boris Valentinovich Volinov logically said that they afraid deathly radiation. So according to you and your friends US solve this problem also for very short time. Who can believe in this? ***
Therefore you are unqualified to make a historical judgment of who was ahead in, say, 1967.
*** Maybe I am not, but facts tell me that even according to your NASA friends your claims are not quite truth at all. For instance:
http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/blrockettimeline3.htm
Also I find very good points at http://english.pravda.ru/mailbox/22/98/387/11928_space.html ***
You prejudicially concluded they were hiding.
*** No.***
"I don't accept that such severe low temperature on moon planet exist in orbit around the Earth."
I don't care. I do thermodynamics for a living. You do not,
*** I don't care about what you think. Yes, I do not. I don't have much time to gamble my life. ***
and admit that you know nothing of it.
*** For me is enough what Krishna and my Guru was said about Moon, I don't need you and your unperfected conclusions and calculations. ***
What you choose to believe is irrelevant. I deal in facts.
*** Your "facts" are irrelevant for me. ***
You deal in "perfect knowledge" that is demonstrably wrong.
*** No chance! ***
Show me your thermodynamic calculations and then I will agree that you have the basis to disbelieve observable fact.
*** I show you this above. Show me where you are tested these spacesuits for such severe low temperature -200* and higher, I want to test it also! ***
I am a space engineer. You are not.
*** Yes, so what? ***
You are arguing with an expert from a position of ignorance.
*** No, I arguing with an expert from a position of higher knowledge that I get it form Krishna and my Guru! ***
So your religion denies the reality of the Cold War?
*** Cold war is for fools and ordinary people. In fact they support secretly each other on higher masonry platform, this is high and secret politic of world government in shadow. ***
For a *decade* the Soviets and Americans fought to outdo each other in space, and then all of a sudden the Soviets agree *not* to expose the U.S.
*** Not all of them. Conspiracy of silence was exist in Russia to, but for instance Russian cosmonaut Boris Volynov have courage and has gone on record saying that he does not believe that Americans landed on the moon. Who knows how many was silence or have not courage to openly speak about. What about Grissom who openly criticize space mission and others as well (from 1964-67) or Thomas R. Baron how they end their life's, they silence I.E. killed. ***
in the greatest space achievement of all time,
*** Hahaha ***
which you now seem to argue they knew was fake!
*** Of course, so why they did not send their astronauts to Moon also?
Don't tell me that this was because the race was over when US first get to Moon. That's don't have any logic sense. In past at every Russian first US responded second, so why not in inverse way like nuclear bombs for instance? ***
I'm not an atheist.
*** Really? So what is your religion, what is your fate? ***
But neither am I brainwashed religious fanatic.
*** Hahaha, I am brainwashed and religious fanatic? What are you talk about, are you insane? You are brainwashed according your answers and you fanatically try to advocate "moon landings", which is hardly to explain and understand for sane person. ***
"God supplies everything what they need for good and peaceful life, food, water, cloth, etc. They don't need John Deere, Monsanto, etc."
Hogwash.
*** Hogwash is only your answer. Yes, they don't need you, John Deere, Monsanto, etc. What was before John Deere, Monsanto, etc? What people eat thru centuries? Nothing? How they dealt land, how they seed without John Deere, Monsanto, etc? ***
Oh that's right. I keep forgetting you think I'm crazy and need a psychiatrist. That's what gives you the right to call me names.
*** You urgently need bona fide spiritual master if you don't want to dawdle your life. Life of soul in human form of body is very rare and designed only for spiritual self-realization. ***
No, you DON'T present facts. You simply state your beliefs as if they were facts, and you don't condone anyone trying to question to see whether they ARE facts.
*** My believes and conclusions is based on your thoughts, words and answers. So your answer's is best example to me that I am in right. Anyone who read your answers can conclude this also. ***
Don't you understand the difference between belief and fact?
*** Of course that I understand the difference between belief and fact! ***
I certainly do.
*** Then, doesn't never, ever talk nonsense please! ***
Your leader is calling me a liar! What makes you think I don't have the right to defend myself against his accusations.
*** You have to right to defend yourself, of course, but you have NOT right to speak unbelievable lies and offences about my Guru! ***
When I study his accusations I find that they are based on HIS misunderstanding of what I do and who I am.
*** What you study, do you read any of His 80 remarkable books or did you check links that I post? Don't tell me ever again about "His misunderstanding" I don't want to read this foolishness any more. ***
It doesn't matter to me that you've chosen to venerate him as some sort of prophet or saint.
*** Some sort? HE IS BIGEST WORLD SAINT AND SPIRITUAL MASTER! ***
To venerate someone who is demonstrably wrong in his criticism is foolishness to me.
*** Demonstrably wrong in his criticism? Hahaha. Just see how you spoke foolishness! This proofs all I said about you! I know that you have nothing to say about His arguments, therefore you are angry. But don't worry, you are not the only one. My Guru beat many like you. So, it will be better to try to learn from Him this majesty Vedic knowlegde. Don't talk such nonsense about my Guru any more please! ***
Oh, but you left out the days that don't fit your pattern.
*** No, I tell about whole week in previous letters. ***
What about Tuesday? What about Wednesday? What about Thursday and Friday? They don't tell us anything about planets, and they're the majority of the week.
*** Yes, but you must read old Vedic astrological books to clarify this.
I tell you about this in some of previous letter. In Jyotich, or ancient Vedic astrology it is said that 7 planets make our solar system. So 7 planets make 7 days in one week according to planet position in solar system. So each day in the week have one planet as ruler for that day. First is Sun because Sun is nearest to the Earth, so
For Sunday - is Sun
Monday - Moon
Tuesday - Venus (those 3 planets are visible from Earth)
Wednesday - Mercury
Thursday - Mars
Friday - Jupiter
Saturday - Saturn ***
Why does your "pattern" only work in the English language?
*** Why? Srila Prabhupada was speaking in English, Bengali and Hindi languages. He doesn't know German, French, etc. In western world when He gives lectures or had conversations with others He gives examples in English language, language He know it so He in very nice way explained from Vedas all we have to know. ***
In French, for example, the first day of the Judeo-Christian week is "dimanche", literally meaning "The Lord's day." Nothing again to do with planets.
*** I explain about planets above. Lord's day can also means Sun. Sun is our Lord, Sun give life, Sun moves everything. So it's logic that first day - Sunday also means first day - Lord's day. ***
And on most business calendars these days the first day is Monday, not Sunday.
*** In my computer Sunday is first. Yes, these rascals change some calendars. I can guess why these rascals do this. ***
The names of the days in English come in some cases from German and in other cases from Latin.
*** I don't investigate this. This is particular subject from where names came from. ***
There's no rhyme or reason to them, and no order that we respect in those derivations.
*** How you said that? I don't know for other languages but how you can said this about English language case? First we know from Vedas and astrology planet positions and orders, then we know name days of week. So, why for instance first day of week is not Wednesday or Friday? Why first came Sunday and then Monday and in the end of week Saturday if it is not logic order of planets in our solar system? Do you think that this order is randomness and without of any logical sense? ***
Further, the whole notion of a "week" comes from Judaism, and they simply used ordinal numbers!
*** And what was before Judaism, why all advantage civilizations thru history have Sun cult at first place? ***
Your attempt to prove the "real" order of the heavenly bodies from the English days of the week
*** English days - just supports Vedic statements on planets order in our solar system that is fact. Srila Prabhupada uses those English days like simple example to confirm Vedic statements and in easiest and effective way explain Vedic's planetary order. Everyone can see with own eyes beside Sun and Moon third planet Venus also on sky without telescope. ***
ignores that all that came about as a hodge-podge of unrelated effects. That's your answer.
*** No, Sunday relates with Sun, Monday relates with Moon, that's even enough to conclude that Sun is first and Moon is second. So many millions over the world accept like I do that Moon is far, far away from Earth.
This is my answer! ***

"You said no, so your answer is that even in the morning when sun is very low ultraviolet light is so harmful for astronauts that they must protect there eyes and faces with black visors. You said in some of previous letter."

The ultraviolet exposure is still dangerous with the sun low on the horizon. However, that does not equate to sufficient radiant heat transfer. This is because the sun, while low on the horizon, shines in the astronauts' faces, as it does to motorists, etc. However, heat transfer requires a direct exposure to the lunar surface -- i.e., the sun directly overhead -- for maximum heat transfer. Those are the conditions under which the lunar surface achieves its maximum temperature of roughly 250 F.

"Maybe, but your progress is very suspicious for only few years, from 1967 - and Disaster at Cape Kennedy you get to Moon landing, this is unbelievable!"

Why do you say this? Have you studied the engineering causes for the Apollo 1 fire and the steps taken to recover from them? If not, how can you be so sure that 2 years is not sufficient to correct those problems?

I wrote, "You are arguing with an expert from a position of ignorance."

You responded, "No, I arguing with an expert from a position of higher knowledge that I get it form Krishna and my Guru!"

No. Your "guru" is not an expert in Western science or engineering and neither are you. Yet you are trying to argue principles of Western engineering. Where does your scripture discuss ultraviolet light and radiant heat transfer? Where does your scripture discuss launch pad test procedures? Every time your knowledge is called into question you give the same answer: that you have "perfect" knowledge from your guru. In fact, you demonstrate by your statements that your knowledge is far from perfect.

"Russian astronaut Boris Valentinovich Volinov logically said that they afraid deathly radiation."

Of course they were concerned about it, but that doesn't mean they didn't know how to solve the problem. When I go out in a boat, I'm afraid of drowning. That doesn't mean there aren't ways to prevent that from happening. You confuse concern over a hazard with some presumption of impossibility. The Russians did not believe it was impossible to get to the moon because of radiation, and they conducted their own experiments to verify this.

"So according to you and your friends US solve this problem also for very short time. Who can believe in this?"

The Russians, among others.

"Conspiracy of silence was exist in Russia to, but for instance Russian cosmonaut Boris Volynov have courage and has gone on record saying that he does not believe that Americans landed on the moon."

No. Conspiracy theorists have claimed that he said this, but have provided no source or reference. The only source is noted Usenet crackpot Daniel Joseph Min, who makes up most of what he claims.

"For me is enough what Krishna and my Guru was said about Moon, I don't need you and your unperfected conclusions and calculations."

But you haven't proved that your guru's opinions are "perfect". You simply believe a priori that they are. On the other hand, I use those "imperfect" calculations every day to construct machines that work. My theories are proved through use. Your guru's opinions were never put to use and therefore never proved.

I challenged you: "Show me your thermodynamic calculations and then I will agree that you have the basis to disbelieve observable fact."

You wrote, "I show you this above. Show me where you are tested these spacesuits for such severe low temperature -200* and higher, I want to test it also!"

No turnabout allowed. You have provided no calculations or computations whatsoever. You have simply asserted that the spacesuits could not have worked. You have clearly declined to support that conclusion with an argument, therefore I reject it. You have not proven that the spacesuits don't work.

"Don't tell me that this was because the race was over when US first get to Moon. That's don't have any logic sense. In past at every Russian first US responded second, so why not in inverse way like nuclear bombs for instance?"

Because landing on the moon does not have the same motivation as developing nuclear weapons.

"Who knows how many was silence or have not courage to openly speak about."

This is not evidence; this is an excuse for why the evidence says exactly the opposite of your claims.

"What about Grissom who openly criticize space mission...?"

What about it? His criticisms were valid. An operation does not have to be wholly above criticism in order to be authentic.

"...or Thomas R. Baron how they end their life's, they silence I.E. killed."

Baron wasn't silenced -- he testified before Congress and gave many pages of written evidence. To silence someone means to *prevent* them from doing what Baron was allowed to do! Unfortunately his testimony was shown to be mostly hearsay and therefore not very valuable.

Do you claim Grissom was murdered too? That's ludicrous. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that NASA wanted to kill Grissom. Why would they do it on government property, in a government spacecraft, in front of dozens of people, in a way sure to bring about intense criticism as well as criminal and congressional investigations from dozens of sources? Besides, if you believe Grissom was killed becuase he was telling the truth, then the truth of what he was telling was a program that was in danger of having an accident.

Your murder scenarios make absolutely no sense.

"What was before John Deere, Monsanto, etc? What people eat thru centuries?"

Far less than what they eat today. You simply cannot sweep centuries of technical innovation under the carpet because your religion frowns on it. Get used to the fact that people not of your religion can do good.

"You have to right to defend yourself, of course, but you have NOT right to speak unbelievable lies and offences about my Guru!"

Oh, but he has the right to speak lies and offenses about me? Sorry, guy. If your guru is going to call me a liar while speaking in complete ignorance of who I am and what I do, then he's going to get both barrels from me.

Your guru IS IGNORANT OF WESTERN SCIENCE AND IS CRITICIZING IT IN IGNORANCE. And frankly I don't care if that offends you. If you're going to make the kinds of claims you're making and level the kinds of insults you level, you forfeit much of any claim to courtesy from others.

"I know that you have nothing to say about His arguments, therefore you are angry."

Hogwash. I answered each and every one of his "arguments". I will summarize yet again.

I asked whether your guru's statements could be reconciled with orbital mechanics. You didn't know, but you referred me to another expert -- Dr. Thompson. Dr. Thompson is also unable to reconcile your teacher's statements with orbital mechanics, and thus suggests that perhaps the statements are being interpreted too literally.

My answer to your first question was that your theories don't correspond to observation. I am not compelled by reason to respect a theory for which contradictory observations can be obtained.

Your second question was about the thermodynamics of the moon. Again, my answer is that your leader does not have the knowledge that the reader of those papers was expected to have. Hence he misinterprets them. I have introduced the notion of space suits as an insulation against heat loss. You have responded simply by saying that they wouldn't work, but you won't explain why they won't work.

My frustration derives from your continued inability to answer my statements by any other means but to call me names and to reassert your previous statements, claiming that they come from "perfect" knowledge. If your "perfect" knowledge does not account for observation, then it is not perfect.

"My Guru beat many like you."

No, he apparently simply sidestepped and ignored their statements, just as you are doing.

I am an expert in Western science. You are not. I, therefore, am the expert on whether your teacher has accurately represented and understood western science. He has not. You have provided no information to suggest otherwise, simply claiming that his knowledge is "perfect". If you do not want your leader's statements exposed to criticism then kindly refrain from discussing them in public.

"For Sunday - is Sun
Monday - Moon
Tuesday - Venus (those 3 planets are visible from Earth)
Wednesday - Mercury
Thursday - Mars
Friday - Jupiter
Saturday - Saturn"

No. These are not the correct derivations for the names of the days of the week in English. As I explained, your argument attempting to derive the "proper" order of planets from the order of the days fails by the subversion of support.

RII


Why do you say this? Have you studied the engineering causes for the Apollo 1 fire and the steps taken to recover from them? If not, how can you be so sure that 2 years is not sufficient to correct those problems?
*** Logic, evidence and history. Now I am 100% so sure that 35 years still is not sufficient to correct those problems and who knows when those problems will be resolve! ***
No. Your "guru" is not an expert in Western science or engineering and neither are you. Yet you are trying to argue principles of Western engineering.
*** I heard this so many times! So disprove that Sun is not first, Moon planet second and Venus third if you can! ***
Where does your scripture discuss ultraviolet light and radiant heat transfer? Where does your scripture discuss launch pad test procedures?
*** Just see what foolishness you wrote. Who said that in Vedas are expelled for instance some launch pad test procedures. Are you sane, are you in clear consciousness, what are you talking, are you really read any pages from Vedas? Vedas is not some detailed technical book! ***
Every time your knowledge is called into question you give the same answer: that you have "perfect" knowledge from your guru.
*** *** Hahaha, what foolishness? Of course is perfect! So answer on my previous questions and try to beat my points if you can. I challenge you, so prove your statements. ***
In fact, you demonstrate by your statements that your knowledge is far from perfect.
*** In fact, you demonstrate by your statements that you are far, far from any perfect understandings! ***
Of course they were concerned about it, but that doesn't mean they didn't know how to solve the problem.
*** Then, why they even not try to send man's crew on Moon? US solve problem but Russians still not till our days. Nice story! ***
When I go out in a boat, I'm afraid of drowning.
*** If you are not swimmer. ***
That doesn't mean there aren't ways to prevent that from happening.
*** You can take safe belt but that's not guarantee you that you can survive sea storm. ***
You confuse concern over a hazard with some presumption of impossibility.
*** No. ***
The Russians did not believe it was impossible to get to the moon because of radiation,
*** Who said impossible only because radiation? Russians believe that is impossible to get to the moon because so severe other problems with man's crew including so many techniques problems. ***
and they conducted their own experiments to verify this.
*** Well if they verify this and solve problems then why they not sent man's crew? Maybe because they was so despondent with US "success". ***
The Russians, among others.
*** Which Russians, for instance? ***
No. Conspiracy theorists have claimed that he said this, but have provided no source or reference. The only source is noted Usenet crackpot Daniel Joseph Min, who makes up most of what he claims.
*** So why you can ask directly Boris Volynov if he is still alive? And not only Boris Volynov said this, this said also Brian O'Leary even Apollo astronaut Edgar Mitchell was dubious in his claims. ***
But you haven't proved that your guru's opinions are "perfect". You simply believe a priori that they are.
*** Really? SUN, MOON, VENUS, goodbye! ***
On the other hand, I use those "imperfect" calculations every day to construct machines that work. My theories are proved through use.
*** I don't care! Go above the Sun to Moon planet with your machines if you can! I wish you nice trip!***
Your guru's opinions were never put to use and therefore never proved.
*** Hahaha! SUN, MOON, VENUS, goodbye! ***
No turnabout allowed.
*** No, no, no my friend this is not turnabout. Answer on my clearly challenge! ***
You have provided no calculations or computations whatsoever.
*** Here are my calculations or computations! Answer on my challenge why you fly away from facts! ***
You have simply asserted that the spacesuits could not have worked.
*** Yes, of course, these spacesuits could not work at - 200 C or lower temperatures. So you simply don't know what to said when I challenge you! Goodbye! ***
You have clearly declined to support that conclusion with an argument, therefore I reject it.
*** Aha, you reject it when I pack you to corner, very scientific, bravo!
Argument, you want argument, give me these 60's-70's space suits with power units and put me in biggest and coldest refrigerate, I will show you how these spacesuit "works". ***
You have not proven that the spacesuits don't work.
*** Really? No problem, I will prove when I get and test these 60's-70's spacesuits. Why are you so afraid from this possibility?
So with no response from you on my challenge and by skipping my questions I already prove that what are you and your friends! You just suck money from taxpayers and mislead poor ordinary people with legends like moon landing is, goodbye! ***
Because landing on the moon does not have the same motivation as developing nuclear weapons.
*** Nice story. What was original goal of both sides? Original goal of both sides was to utilize it, not just common expensive race, which will be first!
Prabhupada: ...why they will give it up? That is the proof. America was found by Columbus. So many people came from Europe and utilized it. So if they would have gone to moon planet, they would have utilized it. But they have not gone. That is the fact.
Paramahamsa: That was their original proposal, that they can utilize it, make colonies there.
Prabhupada: Yes, yes. Yes. ***
This is not evidence; this is an excuse for why the evidence says exactly the opposite of your claims.
*** What about 10 astronauts between 1964-1967? So for only 3 years you have 10 dead astronauts, what score! ***
Baron wasn't silenced --
*** Just simply overrun by train becouse his critics in congress about Apollo program when he said that Apollo program is in such disarray that US would never make it to go to the Moon! ***
he testified before Congress and gave many pages of written evidence.
*** And where is his report, why report mysteriously disappeared? ***
To silence someone means to *prevent* them from doing what Baron was allowed to do!
*** No, not many people were able to hear or read his report. So when they read his report they kill him. ***
Unfortunately his testimony was shown to be mostly hearsay and therefore not very valuable.
*** If his testimony was not very valuable why report mysteriously disappeared? What about cause of fire, what is cause of fire, why is mystery even today? What about capsule, why capsule is still locket away at military base? ***
Do you claim Grissom was murdered too? That's ludicrous.
*** Ask Grissom's family! Why his (and others) dead is mystery even today? ***
Let's say, for the sake of argument, that NASA wanted to kill Grissom.
*** Who said NASA! Somebody above NASA! ***
Why would they do it on government property, in a government spacecraft, in front of dozens of people,
*** Why they murder President Kennedy on government property - Dallas, in a government vehicle, in front of dozens of people? ***
in a way sure to bring about intense criticism as well as criminal and congressional investigations from dozens of sources?
*** Fire is nice way that with one kick you kill 3 astronauts and in same way it looks as accident. Forget congress, politicians they all are lairs and bribery's, like in Italian Mafia cases, they are prostitutes for money and power. ***
Besides, if you believe Grissom was killed becuase he was telling the truth, then the truth of what he was telling was a program that was in danger of having an accident. Your murder scenarios make absolutely no sense.
*** No. Apollo was in danger because program was in such disarray that US would never regularly make it to go to the Moon, astronauts know that. President Kennedy promises (for many reasons) to US people that US astronaut's must landed to Moon before 1970. Everyone who standing in that road i.e. don't do what they said that crew must do was killed and cover up. Very simple and sane. ***
"What was before John Deere, …?"
You simply cannot sweep centuries of technical innovation under the carpet because your religion frowns on it.
*** No, we don't against technical innovation, but we against misuse and unwise reliance. I give you example with tractors.
Kulasekhara: …At John Lennon's estate, remember? In London. You said to me, the tractor, you said, this is the cause of all the trouble. That it took all the work from the young men and they went to the city and became entangled in the sense gratification in the cities. So I've noticed in the city there's much more passion, but living in the country is simpler.
Prabhupada: Yes, passion, there must be. When you have got the facility, naturally we are lusty, and when we have got the facility, then we take to it.
***
Get used to the fact that people not of your religion can do good.
*** Can, of course, but they don't have real knowledge that's problem.
Just as I said in previous letters although you think that you do good but in fact you do wrong. How? For instance McDonalds first kill so many millions of animals in brutal way, especially bulls which is in recent times used to plough land and pull chariot. So tell me what you will do when oil comes to end? McDonalds buy and cut forests in Amazon, which they use for treat land for bulls and cows. So erosion of land is necessity, etc.
Your country is so polluted with unhealthy and inhumane food like big McDonalds, Kentucky chickens, King-burgers Coca-Cola, Pepsi etc! That's why so many Americans are so fatty and have so many diseases. This is one of examples and feedback's of your "technical innovation". ***
Oh, but he has the right to speak lies and offenses about me? Sorry, guy. If your guru is going to call me a liar while speaking in complete ignorance of who I am and what I do, then he's going to get both barrels from me.
*** First, He has right to spike what He wants. Second He speaks only truth. Third, I must tell you, you are liar and completely ignorantly person, so puff up with enormous ego and one of brassiest person I meet on net! He was not offend you, you are offend lone for yourself and for scientific community. ***
Your guru IS IGNORANT OF WESTERN SCIENCE AND IS CRITICIZING IT IN IGNORANCE.
*** Ok, if you want hard game you will get! Now you will get it what you disserve! I can't tolerate this any more, now is enough!
You are so stupid with brain of ass, you are so IGNORANT, EXPECIALY ON SPIRITUAL SCIENCE AND YOU CRITICIZE IN IGNORANCE BECAUSE YOUR BRAIN IS FULL OF MATERAIL STOOL!
YOUR STUPIDNESS HAS NO LIMITS! ***
And frankly I don't care if that offends you.
*** And frankly, now, I don't care if that's offends you or not. ***
If you're going to make the kinds of claims you're making and level the kinds of insults you level, you forfeit much of any claim to courtesy from others.
*** This is exactly I can say about you! So moreover no respect to you! If you don't have respect on my Guru and don't have any respect on you! ***
Hogwash. I answered each and every one of his "arguments". I will summarize yet again.
*** Hahaha, let’s see your "answers"! ***
I asked whether your guru's statements could be reconciled with orbital mechanics. You didn't know,
*** Yes, of course I didn't know, hahaha. What foolishness you just talk. What about for instance your orbital mechanics says about Sun, Moon, Venus, etc. order in sky? ***
but you referred me to another expert -- Dr. Thompson. Dr. Thompson is also unable to reconcile your teacher's statements with orbital mechanics, and thus suggests that perhaps the statements are being interpreted too literally.
*** Prove it right now, copy and paste your conversations with him and I will for any case check with him your answers! ***
My answer to your first question was that your theories don't correspond to observation. I am not compelled by reason to respect a theory for which contradictory observations can be obtained.
*** Observe Sun, Moon and Venus in sky! ***
Your second question was about the thermodynamics of the moon. Again, my answer is that your leader does not have the knowledge that the reader of those papers was expected to have. Hence he misinterprets them.
*** I have no time for foolishness, I already challenge you, answer it! ***
I have introduced the notion of space suits as an insulation against heat loss. You have responded simply by saying that they wouldn't work, but you won't explain why they won't work.
*** I already challenge you, answer it! ANSWER IT! We will see on test how this 60's-70's spacesuit works in reality. ***
My frustration
*** Hahaha your frustrations? Than what can I say about you and your statements about my Guru! ***
derives from your continued inability to answer my statements by any other means
*** Really? SUN, MOON, VENUS, goodbye! ***
but to call me names
*** as you call my Guru, you deserve much more than this! ***
and to reassert your previous statements, claiming that they come from "perfect" knowledge.
*** Of course! SUN, MOON, VENUS, goodbye! ***
If your "perfect" knowledge does not account for observation, then it is not perfect.
*** SUN, MOON, VENUS, goodbye! ***
No, he apparently simply sidestepped and ignored their statements, just as you are doing.
*** Hahaha, SUN, MOON, VENUS, goodbye! ***
I am an expert in Western science. You are not.
*** How many times will you repeat this! No more please! ***
I, therefore, am the expert on whether your teacher has accurately represented and understood western science. He has not.
*** How many times will you repeat this! No more please!
Well expert - SUN, MOON, VENUS, goodbye! ***
You have provided no information to suggest otherwise, simply claiming that his knowledge is "perfect".
*** SUN, MOON, VENUS, goodbye! ***
If you do not want your leader's statements exposed to criticism then kindly refrain from discussing them in public.
*** No more, SUN, MOON, VENUS, goodbye! THE END! ***
No. These are not the correct derivations for the names of the days of the week in English.
*** No, these are correct derivations for the names of the days of the week in English. Vedic cosmology states that planet order is; first is Sun, then Moon, Venus, Mercury, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn. Evidence: All people around the world can see with own eyes of course Sun and Moon, and Venus also. When we look at sky we can see that Sun is largest i.e. Sun is closest to earth, Moon is less than Sun i.e. Moon is further away from earth than Sun, and Venus is smallest because Venus is far away from earth. So, Sun, Moon, Venus, etc. this is fact. Can you disprove this? Therefore because Sun is first we have Sunday, Moon is next to Sun, therefore second day in week is Monday and last is week is Saturday because planet Saturn is last in our solar system. It's true of course that other days in week don't "support" the names of planets (who knows why?) in English calendar but it is not important because we have Vedic knowledge and excellent statements and proofs from them about cosmology and astrology. ***
As I explained, your argument attempting to derive the "proper" order of planets from the order of the days fails by the subversion of support.
*** No, you don't or can't understand. Orders of the days are derive from proper Vedic order of planets that's unbeatable fact. God first create planets not days of week, right. I said that first we know from Vedas and Vedic astrology (Jyotish) planet orders, positions, and size; this is most important and first. Then, with that knowledge we us English days example - just to support and confirm Vedic statements on planets order in our solar system. So you can't beat fact that Sun is first, Moon is second, Venus is third, etc. and Saturn is last like is stated in Vedas. Goodbye! ***

So in the end I can 100 % conclude that US astronauts NEVER went on Moon planet, planet which is describe in Vedas and planet which all of us can clearly see in sky every night! I leave possibility that they maybe went to dark Rahu, which is very close to earth. GOODBYE!

[deleted]

"Three people crammed aboard a spacecraft built for two. The U.S. produced a three-man craft. "

Actually it was three people crammed into a spacecraft built for ONE.
The the two Voskhods were just stripped down single-man Vostoks.

In the 2-person Voskhod flight, two people rode along with a collapsible airlock for the space walk.

In the 3-person flight, three rode and took the startling risk of flying without spacesuits, that's what it took to cram them into a 1 person capsule.

AtRI

So then perhaps YOU have misunderstood your leader.
*** No! ***
Then he should keep his mouth shut
*** No, you must stop to talk nonsense! ***
when the discussion deals with this material world, which is MY area of expertise.
*** What you think, that you suck all material knowledge! How pride and disdain you are, this is unbelievable. You possess perhaps let's say 0,001% of all material knowledge and you think that you know this material world. This is maya, this is your big, big illusion. ***
Instead he slanders me and misrepresents my profession!
*** You misrepresent your profession and REAL scientists, not Srila Prabhupada with your unbelievable conclusions about my Guru. I don't know any of your friends that have such unbelievable dispraise manner towards my Guru.
Do you really know what is ABSOLUTE knowledge? This imply spiritual but also material as well! He was NOT a COMMON man like you and me you must UNDERSTAND that! I show and prove you that, this is one of many, many stories (please read: "Prabhupada the expert engineer":
This area where the temple was to be built is sea area. Every building has pilings which are 35-40 feet below the ground. So I said to Guruji that we must have pilings in this land to build the temple. But Guruji suddenly said, "No pilings are required on our land." After that we called the soil specialists who tested the soil and they also reported that the piling is required. And we also called another engineer who also said that pilings are required. He also discussed it with Guruji. But Guruji said, "No! Pilings are not required on our land." So Guruji said, "You can test the soil by boring machine." So I called one boring walla. Then the boring went five feet. They couldn't pull out the boring tool. Then Guruji said, "You dig the land." And we dug the land and we saw the sand and the stone combined to a very hard stone. Then I called that soil testing engineer and he said, "You could build an 8 story building here. No fear. No danger." (from videos "Memories of Srila Prabhupada" http://www.vnn.org/world/WD0202/WD09-7148.html)

or story

"I know your mind" (main part of text): "I even wrote to him in Vrindavana, expressing how much I missed him and how much I wanted his divine association once again. With my youthful innocence I expressed my heartfelt wish to be engaged in his service. The reply letter that I received from him was short but complete. This was my first letter from Srila Prabhupada. At the end of it he stated simply: "I know your mind". He let me know early on that he knew my every thought and movement even though he was far away as India or as near as the next room." http://www.iskcon.net/govinda/page10.html).
I tell you this last time, if He were not sure about that what He was speak (fake Moon planet landings) He would never said that! ***
Of course not. Despite the fact that thousands of people use those basic principles every day,
*** So what? That not means that your friends have real knowledge of Moon planet temperature, conditions in deeper space, etc. ***
you dispute them because they contradict your beliefs.
*** Not only because my beliefs, because your friends presented arguments and of course my Guru's presented arguments. I believe because I was convinced myself like many others those Vedic statements are truthful. Also many Great Spiritual Masters in past accept Vedic statements, also many modern scientist's around the world (also in the near past like Tesla, Einstein, etc.), many millions in whole world. Your statements contradict to Vedic absolute statements. So I accept Vedic statements because they come from higher and absolute source I.E. from Krishna Himself. Whose word are truthful and heavy, Krishna's or your and your friends? ***
"You don't know anything about spirituality and higher knowledge."
Why do you presume that?
*** I conclude that according to your previous words and answers! ***
You presume I am an atheist because I don't accept your religion or your view on religion.
*** No, not because that. I conclude that according to your previous answers. Beside that - first, it is NOT MY view on religion, I presented Vedic statements, as it is via Srila Prabhupada. Second, Vedic knowledge is called in Sanskrit sanatana dharma or eternally religion, so my religion is also yours but you don't have knowledge and consciousness about that. Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc., all are temporary but Vedas is eternally as spiritual world which they originally came from. ***
You're completely wrong.
*** Well, if you ARE theist then ACCEPT WORDS OF GOD! ***
However, if your leader proposes to discuss orbital mechanics or thermodynamics, he is not dealing in spirituality or higher knowledge. He is dealing with the behavior of the physical world,
*** I tell you so many times, He was not a common man, He always spokes only truth and nothing else than real truth, He was able to see and know what you, I and others don't have any chance to see and know. You can ask many devotees who have had many miraculous/supernatural experiences with Srila Prabhupada, they can also tell you about whom He really was.
(http://www.itvproductions.net/store/customer/home.php?cat=12). You know something and have some knowledge about orbital mechanics or thermodynamics, that fact but Srila Prabhupada knows behavior of the spiritual as well physical world, that's also fact. How's that, how He knows that, how He knows? Because He was connected by mystic powers with Krishna the Supreme Lord (the source of all sources), the ONLY ONE who knows everything, the creator of all creations - spiritual as well material world's. Therefore Srila Prabhupada receives perfect knowledge directly from Krishna - Christ Himself! This is secret. ***
and I -- not he -- am the expert in that respect.
*** Really, you are expert of behavior of the physical world, right?
Well, expert then please tell me how ROCKS FLOAT ON WATHER I would like to know? ***
I have reviewed that film in depth. I told you I was an expert in those claims. Did you know that the filmmaker of that film LIED about what was on the original films? I have proof that he lied.
*** Really? ***
He left out the parts of the film that disagreed with his conclusions and just told you what he wanted you to hear. I have seen the original film that he used -- it's not secret as he claimed.
*** Ok, so put this proofs (original film) on your web site or elsewhere, I want to see this original film! ***
You mistakenly believe that these present scientific proofs that the moon landings were faked.
*** First I only 100 % believe in what Srila Prabhupada was speaking, second I explain this in my previous letter but again I will tell you. I just said in the end of some of previous letter to one person on forum that if he still don't believe in Srila Prabhupada evidence he can find even very good points for think about that Moon landings are faked from these 2 tapes. So, I still stand behind that and I still say Moon landings WAS FAKED even from these points of view, from these tapes if on the moment I put on side Srila Prabhupada evidence about MOON PLANET, distance from Earth, air, temperature, Moon illumination at night (also at sunny day too), dust, etc! ***
In fact, these are "proofs" by people who are NOT scientists and only want you to share in their ignorance.
*** So what, I don't care who they are or are they scientists or not, I care on presented arguments and even few arguments of these persons are good enough for big reasonable and logic suspect's about Apollo mission whether they scientists or not (again, if I put on side Srila Prabhupada evidences). ***
I will accept that Srila Prabhupada is an authority on the Vedas statements,
*** Of course, finally, thanks God! This I tell you all off the time! ***
but I do NOT accept that the Vedas statements are themselves inarguable fact.
*** This is unbelievable! If you accept Srila Prabhupada as authority of the Vedic Scriptures how you now don't accept Vedas themselves as inarguable fact, where is logic here, can you tell me? I tell you this so many times Srila Prabhupada was present Vedic statement AS IT IS - I.E. WITHOUT OF ANY CHANGE so how you can accept my Guru as authority but don't accept authority of Vedas, this is so funny? ***
You simply don't seem to understand what it means for something to be true.
*** Oh no, not again. Please, I am so tired from this. ***
No. Again, your leader is ignorant of the context in which that paper is
meant to be read, just as you are similarly ignorant.
*** Hahaha, this was good one, I have great fun. Your ignorant statements about Srila Prabhupada had no limits. Yes, I am ignorant and great full because I try to talk with you, this is my big error. ***
He misunderstood the paper.
*** Don't' talk rubbish. Only before few minutes you accept Him as Vedic authority and now you claims that He misunderstood your papers! Get a cold shower! ***
What he claims Western science says about the moon is not the full statement of it.
*** You try to fix things but can you see that your efforts are ridiculous. ***
Your leader is not an expert in Western science.
*** He is SUPEREXPERT! ***
I am. Therefore I am the authority on whether he has accurately represented Western science.
*** You are authority and expert in Western science? Big words! Who said that, you or someone else. Previous you tell me that you are humble but all I can see thru conversation is pride, big pride. Pride is not good, pride is not characteristic of big scientists, just converse, what more you knows you realize that you knows nothing this is characteristic off big scientists. ***
Those were not the space suits.
*** And what they wear if it is not space suits? ***
The space suit power units only lasted for eight hours. Further, the astronauts were afraid that when they would have to doff the space suits when the power was exhausted, the built-up perspiration would make them even colder. They elected not to wear the space suits.
*** Even "astronaut" Tom Hanks don't believe in your moon story! ***
Prove your claim. I want to see your thermodynamics calculations right here. Put up or shut up.
Prove your claim. Show me the computations that you made to determine that the Apollo space suits would not protect against the cold.
*** Ok. I said, "severe low temperatures" not just cold. First, if you look at video clip of 1965 first space-walk man by astronaut - Leonov you can see that Russian astronaut wear spacesuit, which don't have power units for thermal control. Why if you said that is equal temperature conditions in whole space, so in earth orbit and moon also - 200*? Second if these spacesuits are able to protect astronauts from such severe low temperatures like -200* or higher why according to your story they landed in the morning when temperature was according to your story 0*? Third, where they tested these space suits for such severe low temperatures like -200*? ***
I am a recognized authority in space technology and engineering.
*** Maybe, I was first time hearing for you from you, when you tell me about you. ***
You are not. Your leader is not.
*** Yes, I am not but my Guru is recognized authority and world spiritual leader with many, many millions of followers and He lake His Guru have power to talk with anybody on every subject and of course always win in every discussion! ***
Your leader is calling me a liar. So are you. When I ask you to defend that accusation, you simply tell me you have superior knowledge from your books.
*** How you said so? I put so many evidence! Do you want to repeat them? ***
But at the same time you admit you are not a scientist or an engineer.
*** Yes, but I accept absolute words of Krishna who is absolute scientist and engineer, so I can say that I am also scientist or an engineer because I accept absolute teachings from Him! So when He said that MOON PLANET if far, far away from planet Earth and above the Sun I accept that. So I can say that I am better scientist than you and your friends because I have real knowledge directly from creator of universe. I don't need "observations" to conclude these simple facts. ***
And yet *you* call *me* arrogant!
Yes, your attitude is so arrogant!

"No, you must stop to talk nonsense"

Get over it. Your leader has said wrong and insulting stuff. If you want to believe in it, then you'll have to take the heat of the criticism from people about whom he has told lies. Your indignation is quite comical. You think I should have some sort of respect for someone who ignorantly slanders my profession. I do not.

"He was NOT a COMMON man like you and me..."

Yes he was, for he made the kinds of mistakes common men make. I gave an example of such behavior, wherein he completely misunderstood the nature of heat transfer. He gave the layman's explanation, which we know to be wrong. He made the same mistakes people long ago made, before the true nature of that phenomenon was discovered.

I am a highly trained engineer. You are not. He was not.

"please read: 'Prabhupada the expert engineer'"

That is not engineering; that is simply vernacular knowledge of the prevailing conditions. It is common knowledge that buildings require a sturdy foundation, and someone there would know that there exists a sedimentary substrate that was not anticipated by foreigners. Nothing about this proves your guru was an "expert engineer".

I have given you examples of how your leader is *not* an expert engineer, and you have not reconciled them. The expert you directed me to has not reconciled them. Therefore they remain outstanding examples of how your leader is no better a scientist than a layman.

I write, "Despite the fact that thousands of people use those basic principles every day...

You answered: "So what? That not means that your friends have real knowledge of Moon planet temperature, conditions in deeper space, etc."

Yes, that's *exactly* what it means! We use principles of Western science to build machines that can operate in these environments effectively as predicted. That means our knowledge is correct. That means our understanding of those environments is correct.

"Because He was connected by mystic powers with Krishna the Supreme Lord (the source of all sources), the ONLY ONE who knows everything..."

Except, apparently, orbital mechanics and thermodynamics.

I grow exceptionally weary of your lofty claims that your leaders have perfect knowledge. I have shown you that they do not.

"Ok, so put this proofs (original film) on your web site or elsewhere, I want to see this original film!"

The relevant still frames are on my web site. The original film is an hour long -- I cannot put it on my web site. However, you may obtain it from Spacecraft Films: http://www.spacecraftfilms.com .

I investigated that filmmaker's claims and drew my own conclusion. You obviously did not, yet you still claim it's an expert film on the moon landings. You don't do very much research before you make your claims.

"...he can find even very good points for think about that Moon landings are faked from these 2 tapes."

No, those are *not* good points, because -- as I have argued repeatedly -- those films are dishonest (lying about the evidence) and are made by people who -- like you -- have no understanding of science or engineering. Just because they have enough money to make a book or a videotape doesn't make them right.

"This is unbelievable! If you accept Srila Prabhupada as authority of the Vedic Scriptures how you now don't accept Vedas themselves as inarguable fact, where is logic here, can you tell me?"

Because the question of whether a paper contains truth and the question of knowing what a paper says are two completely separate questions.

I concede that your teacher has studied the Vedic scriptures diligently. Because of that study, I am prepared to concede that he is an expert on what those papers say. But the question of whether the contents of those papers coincides with truth is completely separate than the question of whether you, I, or your teacher has read and studied them.

You cannot see the difference between truth and authority, which is why you are brainwashed.

"Only before few minutes you accept Him as Vedic authority and now you claims that He misunderstood your papers!"

Why are those incompatible opinions? I accept that he is an authority on the Vedic scriptures, but that does not mean he is an expert in thermodynamics as understood by Western scientists, which was the context in which the papers you refer to were meant to be read.

You equate expertise in the Vedic scriptures with expertise in all possible areas of life. I do not. Just because someone is well versed in the Vedas, the Qu'ran, the Bible, or the Tao does not mean he is an expert in, say, corporate finance or heat transfer. Do you understand what it means to have specialized expertise?

Your leader is demonstrably not an expert in everything.

I write, "Your leader is not an expert in Western science."

You write,"He is SUPEREXPERT!"

LOL! No, he is not. As I said, the mistakes he made are the same as those made by laymen, or by people not trained in the appropriate sciences. He is like a child, or like a primitive man when it comes to his understanding of western science.

I gave two examples of where his knowledge is naive: orbital mechanics and thermodynamics. I asked you to reconcile them, and you could not. You referred me to Dr. Thompson, who cannot reconcile them either. Therefore it's back to you. If you believe he is a "super" expert, then you have the responsibility to reconcile his statements with the observations. As I said: put up or shut up.

"You are authority and expert in Western science? Big words! Who said that, you or someone else."

Someone else -- specifically, the regents of the state of Kansas, the regents of the state of Michigan, the regents of the state of Utah, who conferred upon me the degrees that qualify me to practice my art. The licensing board has granted me certification to practice my profession. I have been rigorously examined on my knowledge of Western science. Where was your leader's knowledge of Western science tested? Where has he received certification that his understanding is sufficient?

I have been trained in Western science. Your leader has not. He has simply read his old Indian books and thereafter declared himself to be the expert on everything! What laughter! I have shown you two clear examples of where your leader SPECIFICALLY tried to discuss western science, and failed to properly represent it.

"And what they wear if it is not space suits?"

Inside the spacecraft the astronauts typically wear only coveralls. The spacecraft provides a shirt-sleeve environment. Space suits were worn during principal manuevers so that any collision or damage to the spacecraft could be dealt with by the astronauts. As I explained, the astronauts on Apollo 13 did not wear their space suits for thermal protection because it would have offered only short-term protection after which the conditions would have been worse.

"First, if you look at video clip of 1965 first space-walk man by astronaut - Leonov you can see that Russian astronaut wear spacesuit, which don't have power units for thermal control."

Hogwash. The umbilical provided the connection to the spacecraft's thermal processing facility.

"Second if these spacesuits are able to protect astronauts from such severe low temperatures like -200* or higher why according to your story they landed in the morning when temperature was according to your story 0*?"

Because to land where those cold surface temperatures prevail would have meant landing in darkness, which is dangerous for other reasons. They wanted to land where the sun was shining, but not where the sun was directly overhead and therefore heat would have been a nuisance.

Just because it is possible to do something doesn't mean it is wise to do it.

"Yes, but I accept absolute words of Krishna who is absolute scientist and engineer"

Then why do his "prophets" make such childish errors?

You simply deny the error because you are convinced of the perfection of your leaders. I, on the other hand, consider error sufficient refutation of any claim to perfection. I am basing my evaluation on what I observe. You are simply denying whatever you need to deny in order to protect your beliefs. Perfect people don't make mistakes.

"So I can say that I am better scientist than you and your friends because I have real knowledge directly from creator of universe."

Then with your "superior" knowledge please reconcile your leader's statements with proved principles of orbital mechanics and thermodynamics and heat transfer.

When I challenged you on this before, you claimed you shouldn't be held responsible for the scientific validity of your claim because you were not a scientist or an engineer. That is typically an admission that your opinion might be wrong because it's based on inexpert understanding.

Now you have completely changed your story and claim to have knowledge superior to me and to those who perform space engineering for a living -- a multibillion dollar industry, I might add. So therefore please demonstrate your superior understanding and reconcile your cosmology and your thermodynamics. I want to see your calculations and equations, not just vague regurgitations from your brainwashing.

See, anyone -- including your leader -- can claim to have perfect or superior knowledge if he never has to demonstrate it. I can claim to be able to levitate at will, or to transmute donkey crap into gold, and thereby claim to be superior, as long as I never actually have to do any of the things I claim. The tangible claim to expertise is to say you can do something, and then go ahead and do it to prove it. I claim that I can employ the principles of heat transfer to move enormous amounts of heat at will. And every day I prove that I can do it. I claim that I can employ the principles of orbital mechanics to put objects into predictable orbits. I do not do so regularly, but I have done so in the past.

Your leader's claims are empty and hollow, at least when it comes to talking about Western science. He is all talk, just as you are all talk. When push comes to shove you can't prove your claims. You can only talk about what a terrible person I am for not believing you. That is the complete and total absence of reason.

Reconcile your claims immediately or renounce your claim to superior knowledge.

RI

*** Like I expected, you just again and again retail like parrot same and same false and old phrase about my Guru with so much nonsense words. So I will not answer especially at all of this, I don't want to lose my valuable time. I know that you are angry because you just don't know what to say about Srila Prabhupada arguments, but it is your problem, real truth sometimes really pains. Your indignation is quite comical, so it’s better for you to look truth in the eyes and don't be angry. I am amazed at for how many questions, which I put on you thru conversations, you didn't (can't) ask and skip it, and you said for yourself that you are highly trained scientist and expert. For me it's no problem at all to take the criticism but for you obviously is because you have enormous ego. You told again and again enormous lies about my Guru and that's why I am angry, not because myself, I am not important, but when you dishonor and dispraise my Guru I became very angry. Whole sane world very well knows who is He. So all you do is that you try to minimize His lifework, teachings and knowledge but it is impossible. If you don't have respect for Him I don't care, from such spiritual ignorantly person I nor not expected this. This precisely shows who you really are. He was NOT a COMMON and ordinary man (we all know, whore world know that), that's fact, so I don't care what you personally think about Him. Your personal opinion is totally irrelevant for me, it's more important opinions of many, many millions followers, well-wishers and disciples around the world who accepts His teachings, works and words and who work really, really hard to fulfill His whishes and orders. So I will concentrate to answer (if still has any sense) only on your so cold "examples." ***

He made the kinds of mistakes common men make.
*** Hahaha. I must laugh at this nonsense. ***
I gave an example of such behavior, wherein he completely misunderstood the nature of heat transfer. He gave the layman's explanation, which we know to be wrong.
*** Ok, this must stop, so you claim over and over that my Guru was in wrong. Ok, so I challenge you: First, you don't answer my previous question, you skip it. Once again! Where are you tested spacesuits for such severe low temperatures likes - 200 C or F and lowers which rules on real planet Moon? Answer it! Second, you said that equal temperature conditions rules around earth orbit, deep space as well as on moon. So, if these space suits are able to protect body for -200 C or F and lower temperatures as you claim (and I said that they can not on planet Moon because for severe low temperatures much lower then -200 C as explained in Vedas) I want to convince myself, I want to test it, I want to test these 60's-70's spacesuits? So prove it and give me chance (where and when) to convince myself that these 60's- 70's space suits are able to protect body for -200 C or F and lower temperatures or shut up forever! ***
He made the same mistakes people long ago made, before the true nature of that phenomenon was discovered.
*** I don't know what are you talking about? What true nature of that phenomenon was discovered? Btw, He was one and the only on planet earth that even since from 1958 and earlier stated that:
Prabhupada: So I am the only man in the world challenging that "You have not gone to the moon planet." ***
I am a highly trained engineer. You are not. He was not.
*** How many times will you repeat this! I don't care are you highly trained engineer or not, tell this someone else. I care only on facts. ***
That is not engineering; that is simply vernacular knowledge of the prevailing conditions. It is common knowledge that buildings require a sturdy foundation, and someone there would know that there exists a sedimentary substrate that was not anticipated by foreigners. Nothing about this proves your guru was an "expert engineer".
*** First "Prabhupada expert engineer" was title text from videotape.
Second you may say what you want but my Guru was able to see what others can't. I have so many witnesses and examples for this claim. So don't speculate! I was not talking about common knowledge that buildings require sturdy foundation! I was talking about how my Guru was so sure about His claims? All local devotees from that area, even soil specialists were stated and admonish my Guru that on that sea land is impossible to build temple without pilings. Every building around temple land has pilings, which are 35-40 feet below the ground. My guru was first time at that location. So how He no doubt knows that at that narrow temple area pilings are not required? So better read so many other memories from His disciples if you are still suspicious. In them you can find many, many different miraculous/supernatural experiences, pastimes with my Guru. ***
I have given you examples of how your leader is *not* an expert engineer, and you have not reconciled them. The expert you directed me to has not reconciled them.
*** How you could say so? This is not first time you said this foolishness. How you could say that I have not reconciled them? How many times you will repeat this nonsense? ***
Therefore they remain outstanding examples of how your leader is no better a scientist than a layman.
*** You may only just moreover to speak foolishness. All your effort to proof that my Guru is what you thing He is, are very, very silly. Bona fide spiritual master, Jagad Guru - Guru for whole world with so many followers, friends, well-wishers, disciples around the world is not common and ordinary man, remember that! I have millions and millions proofs around the world that He was not common, ordinary laymen and what you have, nothing, just your silly comments. ***
Except, apparently, orbital mechanics and thermodynamics.
*** I already challenge you, so we will see who is in right! So answer it on my challenge! ***
I grow exceptionally weary of your lofty claims that your leaders have perfect knowledge. I have shown you that they do not.
*** Once again, let's finish with this once forever. You said what you have to said, I also. You think that you are in right, I think that Vedas and my Guru are in right. So once again! Proof your claims, prove it and give me chance (where and when) to convince myself and others that these 60's- 70's space suits are able to protect body for -200 C or F and lower temperatures. If you proof that I will accept that your orbital mechanics and thermodynamics calculations is correct, if not don't ever said any world about my Guru, ok! ***
I investigated that filmmaker's claims and drew my own conclusion. You obviously did not,
*** It's not true. I also investigated that filmmaker's claims but not as much as you. ***
yet you still claim it's an expert film on the moon landings.
*** Precisely; excellent material evidence and good points. ***
You don't do very much research before you make your claims.
*** No need. First, I believe in words of my Guru and Vedas, it's enough for me, second I don't want to waste my valuable time with thing's, which are obviously very clear, and logic. ***
No, those are *not* good points, because -- as I have argued repeatedly -- those films are dishonest (lying about the evidence)
*** I will prove it that they are very good points even by your own answers!
For instance: You said: The lander's engine cut off while the footpads were five feet above the surface. The departing dust left the area long before the footpads hit it
*** No! I check video clip:
Astronaut: contact right
ok, engine stop!
Bart Sibrel was said that he would bet his life that US astronauts never went on the moon, I also. Do you ready in contrary sense also to do it if you are so sure? Do you ready to sacrifice for science like Italian J. Bruno! ***
and are made by people who -- like you -- have no understanding of science or engineering.
*** Yes, all of us are stupid and don't have any understanding of science and engineering and only you and your friends had God given knowledge and right explanation's to tell people how they rich to the moon because you are highly trained scientist and we are not! Nice story! ***
Just because they have enough money to make a book or a videotape doesn't make them right.
*** Logic questions will be; why this entire people, so many people around the world is so against about Apollo missions, why only about Apollo? Why they put so mush money, time, own energy, life time to proof something, which is according to you very clear? Are all of them fools, or are they jealous about US "success" or something else are in the matter? ***
Because the question of whether a paper contains truth and the question of knowing what a paper says are two completely separate questions.
*** For you obviously is because you don't have any spiritual or any understanding what Vedas really is. It's seems to me that you are one of the very rare people on planet earth who questioned this. Of course that Holy Scriptures contains truth, truth and only truth, that’s no doubt and my Guru is one (and last one - 32) of Gurus in chain of bona fide disciple succession who present Vedic knowledge without of any change. ***
I concede that your teacher has studied the Vedic scriptures diligently.
*** Of course! ***
Because of that study, I am prepared to concede that he is an expert on what those papers say.
*** Of course, but not just only because that! ***
But the question of whether the contents of those papers coincides with truth is completely separate than the question of whether you, I, or your teacher has read and studied them.
*** I already explain this above. Beside that who would be so crazy to study whole life something which is not truthfully. So many millions study Vedas today, so better learn something from them, and don't talk such nonsense any more, please. ***
You cannot see the difference between truth and authority
*** Of course not. Just another of your "sane" comments! ***
, which is why you are brainwashed.
*** No, you are brainwashed and so polluted with matter that any sense talk with you is almost completely impossible. You again and again after so many evidence, links, etc. which I post to you push your silly story and comments how we (millions & I) are brainwashed, how Vedas is don't truthfully, how my Guru is not what He really is and so on and so far. I'm sick from your silly comment in lack of evidence. How sane person after so many evidence can say that Vedas is not truthfully or questioned them? If you after all think like that, than this is your spiritual suicide, sorry. ***
Why are those incompatible opinions?
*** You can't understand that's why you said something like this. It is not incompatible opinions. Why, because if you are authority on the Vedic scriptures like my Guru is, i.e. so, so highly intellectual person - it's very logic that you have supreme intellect, than that is simply impossible to don't understand or misunderstand some scientist paper in some newspaper which clearly state's that temperature on moon surface is - 200 degrees and nothing more than that. So He only said, once again:
1) Prabhupada: …THE SCIENTISTS SAY that the temperature in moon planet is two hundred degree less than zero. IS IT NOT? (He asks His disciple who are scholar and reporter:
I (indirectly) - is it true that SCIENTISTS SAID that the temperature in moon planet is two hundreds degree less than zero?
II (directly) - is it true that the temperature in moon planet is two hundreds degree less than zero?)
2) Prabhupada: Very cold. SO EVEN TAKING THE SCIENTIFIC STATEMENT, (M88: He already knows from Vedas that temperature on Moon planet is so, so cold but reporter doesn't know that fact and that's why my Guru use even statements from scientist to beat reporter with logic) how you can live there if it is two hundred degree below the zero degree?
3) Prabhupada: No. THERE IS SUGGESTION OF THE SCIENTIST that there the temperature is two hundred degree below zero. I HAVE READ SOME PAPER. SO IF IT IS A FACT (M88: He just simple use even your friends statements to beat reporter with logic) then how you can live? You feel uncomfortable even in the Arctic region within this planet. How you can go and stay there even for a few minutes where two hundred degree...
So, what He "misunderstand", what is unclear in this? He was speaking and had conversations with many, many scientists and nobody ever talk about His "misunderstanding" of theme. ***
I accept that he is an authority on the Vedic scriptures,
*** Fine! ***
but that does not mean he is an expert in thermodynamics as understood by Western scientists, which was the context in which the papers you refer to were meant to be read.
*** You think so. Your friends clearly state's, that temperature on moon surface is minus 200 degrees in some newspaper and nothing more than that, the end. ***
You equate expertise in the Vedic scriptures with expertise in all possible areas of life.
*** Of course, I was tell you few times before that in Vedas you can find all source of needful and usefully knowledge. Btw, techniques-technology knowledge came from lower planetary systems, aliens was bring it. ***
I do not.
*** Your matter. ***
Just because someone is well versed in the Vedas, the Qu'ran, the Bible, or the Tao does not mean he is an expert in, say, corporate finance or heat transfer.
*** First, you put in same basket Vedas and other spiritual books. Fact is that all of them were emanate from Vedas thru time! So they can't compare in that way, or put it in same spiritual basket (Lord Jesus Christ for instance was also devotee of Sri Krishna who preach Vedas but on such level that people from that time and place was able to understands His words and teachings. He was left His temporary body in India, I have files about that). As I said in previous letters Qu'ran, the Bible, Tao, etc, … are temporary but Vedic knowledge don't have start and end. Vedas are eternally! Also in other spiritual books you can't find detail explanations about many things, which you can find in Vedas. Other spiritual books are very good too, but Vedas is Ph.D. of spiritual life. So when somebody wants to have perfect knowledge and more highly spiritual information's about life, death, etc. he starts to learn fromVedas. My Guru often talks with everybody on every subject and always wins in so many debates, I have millions of witnesses. You just can't understand who is He. Of course that He have not Ph.D. from rocketry engineering or thermodynamics but this is not important, this is material understanding. As I said so many times before, He presented Vedic knowledge, as it is i.e. without any change. Lord Sri Krishna is origin of Vedas i.e. He is origin of all knowledge, so my Guru preach that knowledge and if Sri Krishna said for instance that Moon planet is above the Sun my Guru just repeat that statement. So He possess that perfect knowledge and He don't need rocketry engineering or thermodynamics, observations, etc, to conclude that man never went on Moon planet because Moon planet is far, far away i.e. above Sun. Otherwise why He was so sure about His statements? ***
Do you understand what it means to have specialized expertise?
*** Of course! ***
Your leader is demonstrably not an expert in everything.
*** You may say what you want, I don't care. True facts are different! ***
LOL! No, he is not. As I said, the mistakes he made are the same as those made by laymen, or by people not trained in the appropriate sciences. He is like a child, or like a primitive man when it comes to his understanding of western science.
*** Again, your primitive comments and understanding. I already challenge you, so answer it on my challenge! ***
I gave two examples of where his knowledge is naive: orbital mechanics and thermodynamics. I asked you to reconcile them, and you could not.
*** Once again, you're silly comments. I already challenge you, so answer it on my challenge this is what I have to say! ***
You referred me to Dr. Thompson, who cannot reconcile them either. Therefore it's back to you.
*** Really? Give me prove for your claim! I want right now! ***
If you believe he is a "super" expert,
*** Of course! ***
then you have the responsibility to reconcile his statements with the observations.
*** Naturally. ***
As I said: put up or shut up.
*** Ok, I prove that in this way: give me chance (where and when) to test these 60's- 70's space suits who are able to protect body for -200 C and lower temperatures or shut up! ***
Someone else -- specifically, the regents of the state of Kansas, the regents of the state of Michigan, the regents of the state of Utah, who conferred upon me the degrees that qualify me to practice my art. The licensing board has granted me certification to practice my profession. I have been rigorously examined on my knowledge of Western science.
*** Bravo! I am pride on you. ***
Where was your leader's knowledge of Western science tested?
*** Look with your own eyes and you will see without telescope on sky Sun, Moon and Venus just like is explained in Vedas. ***
Where has he received certification that his understanding is sufficient?
*** Ask millions and millions who give Him their life and souls! ***
I have been trained in Western science. Your leader has not.
*** How many times will you repeat this! I don't care are you trained in Western science or not. ***
He has simply read his old Indian books and thereafter declared himself to be the expert on everything! What laughter!
*** Hahaha, this is so, so fanny! I'm just wondering when you will stop with your silly comments? ***
I have shown you two clear examples of where your leader SPECIFICALLY tried to discuss western science, and failed to properly represent it.
*** Ok, "two clear examples", so I already challenge you, so answer it on my challenge this is only what I want to say! ***
Hogwash. The umbilical provided the connection to the spacecraft's thermal processing facility.
*** So if it is a case as you said why they simply not put power units for thermal control and air on back of astronauts instead complicated and dangerously connection with cables? ***
Because to land where those cold surface temperatures prevail would have meant landing in darkness, which is dangerous for other reasons.
*** What other reasons? ***
They wanted to land where the sun was shining, but not where the sun was directly overhead and therefore heat would have been a nuisance.
*** So, all missions landed in morning. How these operations was so preciously and precisely done, unbelievable. Well done. You must be very proud on US success and Russians admit this and heartily shaking your hands. ***
Just because it is possible to do something doesn't mean it is wise to do it.
*** Well, that means that they weren't sure about quality of their equipment. Logic question would be why is not wise to do that if they tested this spacesuits in all possible conditions? ***
Then why do his "prophets" make such childish errors?
*** What prophet, He is spiritual master not some prophet and what errors? Prove that, I already challenge you, so answer it on my challenge! ***
You simply deny the error
*** No! ***

RI continue

because you are convinced of the perfection of your leaders.
*** Of course but who said leaders, who said that! LEADER in ONE, Srila Prabhupada is LEADER and I am only convinced in His spiritual perfection! If I accept your silly claims that my Guru was not telling the truth than, that in Sri Krishna error not of my Guru because He presented Vedas as it is, without of any change and Sri Krishna spokes Vedas before more that 5000 years ago. So, that leads me to conclusion according to your claims, that Sri Krishna was not Supreme Personality of Godhead, that He was not God and that Vedas is not truthfully which is of course completely foolishness. So if you want to accuse Srila Prabhupada you must first to accuse Sri Krishna and if you do that than you must give satisfaction answers at all statements from Vedas! ***
I, on the other hand, consider error sufficient refutation of any claim to perfection.
*** It will be better to consider your claims! ***
I am basing my evaluation on what I observe.
*** What you observe? Like Srila Prabhupada said you are not able to see even your own nose in darkness and you talking about your observations, what illusion? ***
You are simply denying whatever you need to deny in order to protect your beliefs.
*** Of course not! ***
Perfect people don't make mistakes.
*** Yes, so you are make big mistakes because you are not perfect, you are mistake! ***
Then with your "superior" knowledge please reconcile your leader's statements with proved principles of orbital mechanics and thermodynamics and heat transfer.
*** Ok, Sun, Moon, Venus, etc, this is enough for you! Disprove that if you can? Disprove that Sun is not closest to earth therefore that is not biggest planet we can see, disprove that Moon is not above and far away from Sun therefore lesser than Sun, disprove that Venus is not third planet in our solar system therefore much lesser and far, far away from Sun. Disprove that if you can, disprove these Sun, Moon, Venus,.. Saturn planet orders if you can? ***
When I challenged you on this before, you claimed you shouldn't be held responsible for the scientific validity of your claim because you were not a scientist or an engineer.
*** No, who said that? I said that I am personally not scientist or an engineer (this is my conviction, I feel like that), not that I claimed that I shouldn't be held responsible for the scientific validity of my claim. When I said that? This means that personally I am not educating scientist or an engineer, I was not "trained" and I was not going specially to school like you, but that's not means that I don't have scientific knowledge from Sri Krishna about planets, universes, etc. That's why I said that: "So I can say that I am better scientist than you and your friends because I have real knowledge directly from creator of universe." Is this clear? ***
That is typically an admission that your opinion might be wrong because it's based on inexpert understanding.
*** No, I just don't want to enter in technical details and discussions with you on rocketry and stuff like that. It is not important for our discussion. When I am in wrong I admit this, I don't have problem with that like you. I don't skip any of your points like you do with mine. ***
Now you have completely changed your story and claim to have knowledge superior to me and to those who perform space engineering for a living -- a multibillion dollar industry, I might add.
*** I hope that you understand my previous answer. You are so literal. I see that I must take care on every answer, which I put to you. Is it so difficult to understand for you that personally I feel that I am not scientist or an engineer but because I receive perfect knowledge from Vedas, i.e. from Sri Krishna I can say that I am better scientist than you and your friends because I have real knowledge directly from creator of universe? Is this so difficult to understand for you? ***
So therefore please demonstrate your superior understanding and reconcile your cosmology and your thermodynamics.
*** I already have done. Sun, Moon, Venus, etc. ***
I want to see your calculations and equations, not just vague regurgitations from your brainwashing.
*** I already have done. Sun, Moon, Venus, etc. What you have to say? I want to see your answers on these facts not just your brainwashing material knowledge. ***
See, anyone -- including your leader -- can claim to have perfect or superior knowledge
*** No, He never said that for Himself! He is so humble. I claim this for Him! ***
if he never has to demonstrate it.
*** Do you have eyes? Do you see Sun, Moon and Venus, do you see? ***
Your leader's claims are empty and hollow, at least when it comes to talking about Western science.
*** Ok Western sciences man, answer with your empty and hollow brain do you see Sun, Moon and Venus in the sky and if you see it, what is bigger planet, what is less big planet and what is smallest one? ***
He is all talk, just as you are all talk.
*** Of course, because we have perfect Vedic knowledge that's way we are so sure about our knowledge. ***
When push comes to shove you can't prove your claims.
*** Hahaha! Look at sky, you will see proves very clearly! ***
You can only talk about what a terrible person I am for not believing you.
*** Well, if you don't believe in your eyes I can't help you. Maybe you try to "observe" that on sky exists bigger Sun, less big Moon and smallest Venus. How terrible for you is this fact! ***
That is the complete and total absence of reason.
*** Hahaha! ***
Reconcile your claims immediately or renounce your claim to superior knowledge.
*** You got what you want, now I want to see what you have to say, if any! ***

I told you I was not interested in this discussion if it was going to be just religious fanaticism. I think you have filled and even exceeded the definition of religious fanaticism.

When you are able to discuss Western science intelligently then perhaps I will consider you enlightened enough to speak with. Until then, good luck with your fanaticism.

I told you I was not interested in this discussion if it was going to be just religious fanaticism.

*** First, i am not religious fanatic! Maybe you think so, but it's only your view. Second, you are not interested in discussion when story come to facts!
Where are your answers on my last points? ***

I think you have filled and even exceeded the definition of religious fanaticism.

*** No problem, if you think so i don't care! ***

When you are able to discuss Western science intelligently then perhaps I will consider you enlightened enough to speak with.

*** When you are able to discuss & understand Vedic science intelligently then perhaps I will consider you enlightened enough to speak with. ***

Until then, good luck with your fanaticism.

*** Until then, good luck with your "material knowledge"! ***