Why I like this movie


I like it so much because it explains to the audience that the concept of right and wrong isn't as simple as black and white. Life is never as simple as saying "this is the right way of doing things and this is the wrong way of doing things". One of the marines that was court martialed didn't understand why they were dishonorably discharged. If they did what they were supposed to do. Follow orders without question. That's the first thing they drill into your head when you enlist in the military. Do as your told without question. So he didn't understand why they were DD for following up on a "code red" on private Santiago. Because that was exactly what they were ordered to do. Even though a "code red" was not allowed per official guidelines (on paper anyways). When the aforementioned private Santiago formally requested a transfer off the base. Jack Nicholson's right hand man agreed that transferring him was "the right thing to do" and would allow all parties involved to save face. But Jack Nicholson didn't see it that way. From his point of view transferring private Santiago in his current state would only compound the situation because they'd just be giving the problem to someone else. And according to him that could potentially endanger lives because if they allowed one soldier to become complacent then it would create an unnecessarily dangerous precedent. If Santiago was given a free pass then other soldiers would start demanding similar treatment. And this lax attitude could potentially carry over during wartime. This is what he meant when he said that if private Santiago was allowed to have his way it could end up costing lives. In other words he didn't want his soldiers becoming "lazy". So for all intents and purposes Jack Nicholson was supposed to be the "bad guy" in this movie but his character's motivations were anything but one dimensional. This is what I mean when I say that life is never simple. There's always going to be a gray area.

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It wasn't Jessup's reasons that made him the bad guy... it was his methods. Code reds were outlawed, so he essentially broke command himself. And when a death became involved, he lied about his intentions and threw two guys under the bus to take the fall in the accidental death. His reasoning may have been well-intentioned, but you can't break laws in order to do what you believe is right.

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In other words he meant well but his methods were questionable.

"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it!"

And no to sound like a smart ass but I think It would be more accurate to say that "you shouldn't break laws in order to do what you feel is right". In other words. Just because you have the option to break the law. Doesn't mean that you should.

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That quote is part of his villianism. He believes he absolutely saved lives by keeping Santiago there. He doesn't know that, that's all completely speculative.

In fact, he took one.

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His attitude is similar to a crooked cop who has planted evidence on a criminal.

Would getting a criminal off the street likely prevent other crimes? You could definitely argue that. But planting evidence on them to do so is illegal, wrong morally and wrong ethically.

The ends don't always justify the means

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''His death while tragic PROBABLY saved lives'' as he so eloquently put it. I think Colonel Jessup's logic was twisted. It all made sense in his head.

My mind immediately went back to ''Training Day''. If a police officer is willing to plant evicence to catch a criminal.

Are they any better than criminals?

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When I was in boot camp, I learned that there was a thing as an unlawful order. While we were being taught to follow orders to save our lives, following orders was never intended to be a shield against unlawful behavior.

This was re-enforced when I went to the submarine fleet. We were never allowed to excuse behavior that would endanger the ship with, "I was following orders".

Perjury is never a gray area. Neither is lying to JAG or ordering extra-judicial punishment. Jessup was a criminally inept leader who threw his soldiers under the bus so he could keep on advancing his career.

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Interesting! Please share your personal experience of serving.

Another user shared me a YouTube link where an actual lawyer analyzed the "realism" of this movie. You probably know the one I'm referring to. In any case. In his professional opinion, though he found certain elements to be "dramatic liberties". He overall found it to be fairly accurate as to how military court works.

One point he made was that even though there is such a thing as an "unlawful order" as you mentioned. The military personnel in Guantanamo Bay were "fanatical". At least that's how they were portrayed in film. Which implies they'd be more willing to obey the unlawful order of a "code red" and possibly rationalize it as "doing the right thing".

So there's at least an in movie explanation for it

And I totally agree with what you said about Colonel Jessup sending his own men to the slaughterhouse to cover his skin.

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Served on four submarines from 1984 to 1997. Qualified to supervise the operation of the nuclear propulsion plant. After 18 months of training and a year of qualification on board the ship, it was obvious that hazarding the ship by obeying a foolish order from anyone was not a good way to stay out of trouble.

It was very rare that I was ordered to do something that was not per procedure. But every officer I worked for in the sub fleet was professional enough to understand that even when a qualified junior enlisted Sailor says "it will not work that way", they are probably right. That said, various officers over the years ensured I did not screw myself also. :)

During my career I've encountered one tyrant commanding officer and a few incompetent junior officers, but none that were like Jessup.

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Thank you for sharing. 1984! My YOB, coincidentally.

You were fortunate in that regard, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were actually commanding officers like Jessup in real life. A childhood friend told me of this one guy who threaten to ship off one of his subordinates to some god forsaken location if she didn't bang him. So unfortunately, this does happen.

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There are bad ones in the Navy. Occasionally we heard of a submarine CO being relieved of duty for other than collisions and running aground.

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Please excuse my ignorance. What do military terms like "collisions" and "running aground" mean?

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A collision means that two objects hit each other; as in one ship hitting another ship. Running aground means hitting the shore or an underwater mountain.

In the past American subs have hit other ships or barges while operating on the surface. The USS Greenville performed an emergency surfacing for training purposes and struck a fishing boat that sunk and killed nine people

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehime_Maru_and_USS_Greeneville_collision

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Thank you for sharing that link. Some of the technical details go over my head, but I get the impression that it was basically a series of unfortunate events that lead that disaster taking place (like the Kobe Bryant helicopter crash). Why were the visitors allowed to get in the way of their equipment? And were they adamant about Commander Waddle apologizing in person to the victims families?

The prime minister resuming to his round of golf after being informed of this incident. Reminds me of how president Bush stayed with those classroom kids he was visiting, for a couple more minutes after informed of the attack on 9/11. Both incidents happened coincidentally in the same year and only a few months from each other.

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For me, it was about Tom Cruise’s character in a fast-paced verbal assault to get Jessup to lose his cool and blurt out his intentions and the beauty of his subsequent arrest which he was unable to fathom. I love the courtroom drama. It was a legal thriller - one of the best. It really clinched Cruise’s acting ability against Nicholson.

And BTW - it was black and white. A hazing incident turns into the murder of a soldier. Parents don’t expect the military to murder their kids. Yes, Santiago didn’t have the stuff for Guatanamo and that’s why he wrote numerous requests. You can be discharged from duty early if you are physically or psychologically unable to perform your duties. Santiago did the right thing in requesting to get out of there as he knew he couldn’t perform like the other guys (incorrect to say lax or complacent), and he didn’t fit in. Plus, we find out maybe there was something medically wrong with him that the doctor didn’t see. Jessup ordered the “code red” as he never intended for Santiago to get off the base. It ended up being a hit. There’s nothing remotely admirable or moral with Jessup’s thinking. Jessup was seriously demented and Nicholson has a terrific performance. And don’t forget Markinson knew it was morally wrong and killed himself but not before letting the parents know it was his failure that their son was dead, that he hadn't been strong enough to stand up to Jessup.

There are a lot of Jessups in the word not necessarily in the military and they can be anybody’s boss and they get away with everything.

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