A terrible movie if you are an educator - Mr. Holland's Opus (1996) Discussion

[–] 21 years ago

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[–] sunshine1music 20 years ago

How can you say that??? I am a music teacher at a very poor inner city school. My first day, I had 2 broken auto-harps, 200 records, and a set of maracas. No books, No CD, nothing! When it comes time for building a budget, I rarely get any money at all. Last year, I got $100.I am still expected to put on three concerts a year, and run a choir. I have spend more money than I care to admit out of my own pocket to help build my program.Meanwhile the classroom teacher buy all kinds of new, fancy resourses. I got fed up with it. This years budget committe met right accross the hall from my room. I put up a quote from the movie

"You can cut the arts all you want, and replace it with more reading and math. But if you continue to do this, the students will have nothing to read or write about!"

Yes, I tried to fill those teachers with all the guilt in the world. I heard this year I may get $500. That's a start.

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[–] clmskm-1 15 years ago

Wish that posts belonging to said "educators" did not have spelling errors. DellaStreet 7/20/09, 1:13P.M.

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[–] monsieurdl 15 years ago

Before you go making snide comments about teachers, learn to utilize the rules of grammar. You don't start off a sentence with "Wish that posts..." unless it is at the end of a card or note, like "Wish you were here" or in a diary entry. I didn't know music teachers were all adept at spelling- thankfully the world doesn't judge music teachers by your standards, or some of the greatest composers who gave instruction would have been lost to us. Remember that the next time you choose to be snide when making comments about others.

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[–] ceebeegee 12 years ago

The subject "I" is implied. This is a movie forum; a certain level of vernacular is expected. And yes, a self-proclaimed educator who comes out of nowhere heavy-handedly trashing a movie based on said credentials will probably get scrutinized more closely than a typical movie fan.

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[–] jporter-6 15 years ago

I hope you understand that people such as you make a real difference in the lives of students. One of the worst teachers I ever had was our band director. He played first chair oboe in our local symphony. He had taught famous students who went all over the world. He was always yelling at people and making them feel like rodents.

Yet, when the time came for me to leave my childhood piano teacher and move on to a more professional teacher, I went to him. He got me an appointment with the principal pianist of the symphony. He explained that neither my parents nor I had the money to pay for lessons from such a pretigious teacher--the man had records out, had accompanied some of the world's premiere musicians and was a guest artist for major symphonies around the world. The piano teacher accepted me on the basis of my interview with him and a short recital. He allowed me to pay him by doing yard work and keeping up the appearance of his property.

Had it not been for our band teacher taking him time to call his colleague, I would have never had the opportunity to study under my piano teacher. Don't worry--I'm nobody famous. I have always appreciated the graciousness of a band teacher that everyone seemed to misunderstand.

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[–] MiCharlie124 15 years ago

I'm an educator, and I find the movie to be inspiring. I think it shows that when it comes to a successful education, the important thing is the journey and not the destination. The current school of thought is just the opposite. Teachers are expected to teach a "common assessment" - all teachers need to be on the same page and get through the material in a similar way. This goes contrary to human nature. I fight this on a daily basis and teach to my students, and don't let the curriculum dictate HOW I have to teach. I try to instill a passion and love for education in my students, and will tailor my lesson plan to the individual needs of my individual students when I can do so. There is no one approach that will satisfy the needs of all students. I have students leaving the classroom with a love for Julius Caesar because I incorporate many different aspects of the play: literature, Shakespeare (in general), history, sociology, etc. I try to make the material relevant to the students and help them understand that this isn't just a play written 400 years ago, but a study of human nature that has meaning in today's world. The successful teacher doesn't just teach information, but a love and thirst for knowledge. I think this movie gives a fair depiction of a teacher dedicated to that ideal, who shows that music isn't just an incidental part of life, but an integral part of it.

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[–] NewWolfe 21 years ago

I see your point, but as a musician, I don't think that the movie makes any points that are innaccurate, unfair or untrue. It just focuses mainly on one part of music, but hey: it's hollywood.

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[–] Zelbinian 21 years ago

It's about music yes, but it's also about how music and those that make it well touch the lives of the people around them. As a musician . . . how can you argue against that? Isn't that the purpose of creating music? To touch? To inspire? This film certainly inspires. And come on, it's worth it just to hear Jean Louisa Kelly sing . . . :)

If it weren't for my horse, I never would have made it through that first year of college.

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[–] trntnbadgirl 19 years ago

This is the problem with people...They think because they have a degree in TEACHING and have learned book stuff: they're "competent" musicans and can berate a movie like this and what it teaches the students. That music is supposed to be fun and you're supposed to enjoy it from your heart. I guess an education makes heart and feeling unimportant and makes it a more valued thought. Here is a fact:

The Beatles--NEVER learned to read or write music.

Does that mean they were poor musicians or could not teach a class?

The same (no education in music) can be said for maybe 90% of the whole 60's rock scene, yet it is among the best music ever produced.

Stop. Your thoughts of education mean nothing. Music is about heart, not book education. Your OPINION and teaching method isn't more important than the fact that hundreds of thousands of people have been self taught and been good at that. Music education is ALL theory and method. You can't teach heart. Nothing else matters. It does not make you a better musician because you have a degree. Being a musician has NOTHING to do with book education. You could not teach Jimi Hendrix or SRV to play like they did. What, was there a course in it or something?

If you've been around a decent guitar teacher, who has NO training they tend to read or write music but the real good ones are the ones that play with feeling and that's something a music teacher CAN'T TEACH. It's up to the student to learn and that is what Mr. Holland showed his students. Sorry if your years of college and tinkering around on a piano are trumped by a kid who picks up a guitar and puts his heart into it.

The "education" you speak is a joke. It's a joke beyond basic theory because 90% of all great music disregards theory anyway. That education is only for classical musicians and session men...You know: Guys who sit at the back of a studio counting each and ever note. Don't overvalue yourself. True music comes from the heart.

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[–] Zelbinian 19 years ago

The reason why music edjucation is important is not because of what music teaches people directly but indirectly. Sure, tons of musicians don't have any education and do just fine. But I'm one of those musicians that has very little formal education, and I've played with those who have and . . . lemme tell you, it's nice. When you're looking for a certain sound or something, someone who knows their stuff comes in handy.

It just sharpens your mind, especially with math and reading skills. And it teaches how to apply those skills.

True music comes from the heart - undeniably. But education is NEVER a bad thing.

If it weren't for my horse, I never would have made it through that first year of college.

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[–] jon-961 19 years ago

Just hang on there slick. Let's consider this from a few different perspectives.

I don't really agree with what the original author of this post has said. I am a band director and music theory teacher. I found some inspiration from watching this movie, but I also see many impracticalities. You simply can't tell a student to "play the sunset" and all of a sudden their embouchure problems and finger/hand problems go away. That just doesn't work. Any teacher that puts a student on a bus and doesn't inform parents either beforehand (knowing it's going to happen) or afterward should lose their job!

His conducting through much of the movies was simply incorrect and ineffective and I could find no evidence that Louis Russ (bass drum player) learned to play via any other means than through rote teaching.

Having said that...it's still a great movie! It IS inspirational and in my opinion, if it can get a kid to feel even a small amount of passion about music, then it's a winner! The original author of this post desperately needs to climb down off the soapbox and breathe in the reality.

Now...to the person that wrote the reply that is above/below (I don't know where it will appear,) you need to not speak regarding that which you are unfamiliar. Let me point out a few things:

The Beatles would be qualified to lecture a few class sessions, or perhaps teach a VERY specialized class in the history of popular music or even music business, perhaps improvisation, but I wouldn't want them coming in to teach my music theory class full time. They couldn't do it. Any one of them would have told you that many elements of their career would have been simpler if they could have read music.

You should do some research on record producers. Producers are the ones that normally write the music you hear on CD's and the radio. They are the ones that add in the special effects and background sounds. I would wager good money that a great deal of them know how to read and write music.

Emotion is a MASSIVE part...perhaps even the bulk of how music is made. But a teacher CAN be useful to students in the emotion department. I try to guide my students in a particular director musically. I train them to make good musical decisions when they practice their music and I try to stir emotion from deep within their soul. Not an easy job...but necessary to produce the desired musical effect.

Don't you dare say that musical training is unimportant. Because I have an army of folks that will refute that point to their dying day.

-JF

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[–] physics1957 19 years ago

As a teacher and musician (though not a music teacher), I think most of the responses here have missed the point of the movie. It's not about the importance of music or the arts in education. It's about passion, and passing it on to your students. While the vehicle here was music, it could as easily have been math or physics (my subjects), which are nearly universally disliked by the students I teach. It's about getting the students excited about the subject, and communicating your passion to them. They may not become musicians, or mathematicians or physicists, but they begin to see the beauty that is there, and begin to appreciate it's value and understand that it is something attainable. As teachers, it is our job to convey that passion to the student. Once they understand that beauty is there in all things, and realize the passion it takes to bring it to fruition, they can choose what to become passionate about themselves. Certainly the clarinet had little intrinsic value to the governor (in the movie), but the passion she observed in Mr. Holland's love of music, and the sharing of it, certainly helped teach her how to give her all to her chosen field of politics with great success.

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[–] roghache 18 years ago

As a former sciences teacher myself, I agree with physics1957 that much of the point of this movie is Mr. Holland's three decade long career of passing on his passion for his subject (music, in his case) to his students. Thus his contribution can be translated as also applying to teachers of other subjects. Obviously education involves more than simply career training or imparting skills necessary for daily life. It should also offer an appreciation of other subjects that will enrich the student's life throughout adulthood.

However, I do think there is also a subtext here regarding the importance of the Arts, with much being made of the program cuts in Mr. Holland's high school. My own son was highly involved in the school band program for years at both his middle and high schools, and unfortunately since his graduation there have been some cuts there. Thus we could relate to this movie's end in our own household.

As for that clarinet playing governor, I always thought that Mr. Holland gave her confidence, something she desperately needed and clearly retained into adulthood.

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[–] JacquesDemy 18 years ago

This movie is not only about music teachers or highschool teachers, it is about all the educators who dedicate themselves on teaching other young people, leading and inspiring them. Mr. Holland reminds me of my own music teachers, their passions and patience. He also reminds me of my mother, who is also a teacher, like Mr. Holland, she also regrets for her being busy in helping other children and neglecting her own. So the movie is not only about teaching, it is also about the love between teachers and students and the love in the teachers' families.

The movie indeed has its flaws, simplifying teaching process is a big one to music teachers. I agree that the movie should have showed how hardworking those teachers are, but you can't hate the whole movie just because of the plot of "play the sunset". It is not fair. It is just like hating a whole opus just becuase of one wrong note.

Bush administration stupidly shrinks federal educational budegt and they have to raise the spending on math and science programs, so I guess many highschools have to cut their art programs to save the "Western Civilization". What a shame!

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[–] tramky 16 years ago

There are a couple of issues interwinted in this film. Having the focus of this story be a music teacher plays into the pure entertainment value. Good grief, there were any number of musical interludes, rehearsal scenes, audition scenes, full-blown orchestral performances. Pure musical entertainment. A brilliant but obvious choice for a general audience.

But there is one serious matter in this film, and that is the gutting of art & music in many school districts beginning in the 90s, as depicted in this movie. That DID happen with other more 'academic' subjects, but for the most part those draconian & stupid cuts were made only in the creative arts. We are now producing generations of 'students' who are full of techno-babble and are generally boring since they having no means of expression other than programming their iPods and playing Wii. Who cares? Nobody talks to these kids because they have nothing interesting to say. Or to contribute.

For the first time, this country really IS going to hell in a handbasket.

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[–] lholtsteel 16 years ago

Reading the criticisms about the many technical aspects that may have been wrong in this film misses the larger picture:
Mr. Holland's Opus is not specifically about music education. Music education is the prism through which this man's story is told. This movie's themes, I think, is about being present enough in the moment to find happiness in unexpected places and then maybe, your dream will eventually find you- like Mr. Holland's elusive opus found him in the end.

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[–] ktrweb 19 years ago

Everytime I watch this movie, which I love, I ALWAYS cringe at that part! "Play the sunset" what BS! "oh, I love myself now and can play like Kenny G!!"

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[–] Sivvussa 16 years ago

Hahahaha, classic. Did you think about what you were saying?

Why must it be one or the other? Music isn't an either/or thing, it's both... you can put all the effort in the world into learning something that should be intuitive, or you can expect to do something well because of your musicality... but at the end of the day you have to compromise between the two.

I found your statement: "Sorry if your years of college and tinkering around on a piano are trumped by a kid who picks up a guitar and puts his heart into it." quite honestly offensive. Education is NOT a joke. You also fail to understand that anyone who studies or teaches music HAS an emotional link to it- they WERE the kid with the guitar- and they realised that there was no call to stop improving their abilities just because they'd reached the boundaries of what intuitive musicality can do for them.

You seem to think that learning music at any level is all about cheaply mimicking the true genius of the ones who "play with feeling". You couldn't be more wrong.

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[–] shademk 18 years ago

Obviously you have never met a teacher that has profoundly impacted your life and made you want to be a better person. For me it wasn't my music teacher but rather my English teacher and without him I wouldn't be where I am today.

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[–] adamcp 21 years ago

I think you have a poor perspective on what it means to be an educator. Education is much more than subject matter. Education is equiping students with life skills.

Here are some statements that this film accurately made about teaching:
teachers get up very early in the morning
teaching is not a fall-back job
teachers have little free time
teaching is stressful
teaching consumes every thing
teaching goes beyond the curriculum
teachers should strive to connect new knowledge (Bach) with existing knowledge (Rock'n Roll)
Teachers should have different standards for different students
Teaching is coaching, and Coaching is teaching.
Budget is always a problem.
Teachers must be all things to all men.
Teachers teach people to think.
Teachers change lives.

So, all in all, I agree that this movie is crappy when it comes to an accurate perspective on educators.

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[–] gerriel 21 years ago

Adam CP, you have the right of it. Those statements are exactly right, about what teachers are and do. Except for the blanket statement about it being "crappy."

Of course, as for the "perspective on educators", it depends on your perspective, too. If you are taking the movie as what an educator is supposed to be, it has some good, some bad. If you take the movie as what the title is, Mr. Holland's OPUS, in other words, a story of ONE man's journey, his life's work, then it is wonderful (my opinion, of course).

I have just become a teacher, leaving the profession of interpreting for the deaf. I could pick apart the movie, citing the "continuity" problem of the son not being able to talk at all as a teen, then later being semi-oral at age 28, and going to become a teacher. In real life deaf people don't suddenly become orally proficient at age 28 (perhaps he got a cochlear implant, I jest).
On the other hand, though, I'd much rather be a teacher like Mr. Holland and his P.E. teacher friend, than like the assistant principal.

All in all the movie makes some good points about teaching and about life. We all have the chance and the choice of whether to leave this earth a better place (as teachers are SUPPOSED to do, after all, we ARE working with the next generation), or to be part of the problems. This movie is about the former, and therefore provides much better "food" for the mind than murder and mayhem movies.

Sure, it's "Hollywood" and contrived, but aren't MOST of the movies just that?

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[–] graeme-142 18 years ago

Do you really really REALLY think that the movie was written with the intention of making educators, in particular, happy? Get off your high horse.

Surely you knew what you were getting yourself into when you went to study how to be a teacher? If not you really shouldn't be allowed to educate the youngsters of this society!!!

It is a brilliant insirational film which, if it inspires just one person in the world to appreciate music, has worked!

Only an opinion.

Happy New Year xx

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[–] bandimal 21 years ago

Hmmm... considering my entire local MENC chapter went to see the movie together, and we were all in tears when we left... I don't think you can say that music teachers globally hate this film.

If you read in the quotes, there actually is a point in which Mr. Holland makes the point that music is intellectually stimulating.

"If you keep cutting the arts, there won't be anything to write or sing about."

Drumline is a good movie, I really enjoyed it (you see, my internet nic is "bandimal") but it's also got its drawbacks.

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[–] 21 years ago

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[–] recycled_soul 21 years ago

I remember when this movie came out, my band director, who is also my dad's best friend, told my dad that this was the best film he had seen in years, and felt that my dad, who is a musician, although not a music educator, would certainly appreciate the film's message. So my dad and I went to see it, and even at the age of 9, I loved it. It continues to be a favorite in my family of musicians, and my band director even showed it to my music appreciation class in 7th grade. I can't see how you believe that a movie such as 'Drumline' is more inspirational than 'Mr. Holland's Opus.'

Now you see me, now you don't...
Emily

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[–] trendy_girl 20 years ago

I really enjoyed this movie( as i am one who really enjoys music from the 60's...so not a product of my time!!) As a new teacher I feel music is an important aspect to a students growth and development....unfortunitly the school boards disagrees with this. In fact most schools have cut out music and art from their curriculum. I graduated from high school about 8 years ago and we do not have a music or art program. Schools now adays feel its more important for students to have the basics(reading, math ect). And remember even in the movie the said that sports will never be cutfrom the budget But as educators we can incorporate "the arts" into our lesson plans and allow students to learn the way they want to learn.

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[–] stormrider57 20 years ago

As a professional musician, I too found parts of this film to love and some to hate. It's too bad the scriptwriters didn't know much about the technical side of musical instruments, for example, when young Gertrude assembles her clarinet and immediately starts honking. And as a brass player, I was particularly annoyed by Mr. Holland berating the trumpet player for emptying his spit valve during a performance. It's not a spit valve, although some people call it that in slang usage, it's a water key, because what it empties out is water, condensation inside the tubing from the moisture of our breath. And we brass players empty them whenever and wherever we need to, or else the horn makes a bubbling sound when played. It's not considered uncouth, it's a necessity. It's not like you're spitting on the floor, and it's not like you can "hold it" for later, like finding a bathroom. But I still found the film enjoyable as it did convey how good teachers are not limited by their curriculum and how the best ones touch lives. Most of my teachers were poor in that respect, but my high school music teachers (well, two of them, anyway) became my mentors and gave me some of the tools to follow my life's calling in music. Most of all, they fed my dream, fed my heart, taught me that music is much more than what is on the page. I even had one band director who quit after he was ordered to concentrate more on the marching band for football games than for the art of music. His successor was happy to work on the marching band, but as a teacher and as a person, he was a total loser. You don't need to be an expert to enjoy music, and likewise you don't have to like everything about a film to come away from it with a feeling. If it's made you feel something, it's done its job. That's the whole point.

Did that hurt, Nokes?

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[–] DrR440 19 years ago

Actually, "holding it," i.e., a bowel movement, has its drawbacks, too.

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[–] hollyviolins 19 years ago

I'm annoyed by the name of this thread- which kind of points out some problems with education- and I have to agree with punkdragonfly and some of the others-

This is an INSPIRING film- which is an intangible never discussed with those always analyzing the teaching process- but something for which many teachers originally get into teaching- to inspire-

I read a letter to the editor a few years back- which stated something like: "The superintendent of a large school corporation is like a CEO of a large corporation and should be compensated as such"- It has bothered me ever since-

A school system is NOT a business- it is not about making money- it is only subject to the budgetary restraints often imposed on it by others who have almost no real connection with it-

I thought mr. Holland's Opus explored very nicely some of the issues that educators face and decisions they encounter- How much emphasis should we place on athletics for instance? I have a teaching degree- and I wouldn't mind teaching if the opportunity was there- but budget tensions usually make teaching positions hard to come by- and I'm irritated when I hear talk about teaching quotas and making it all like the medical profession, or law school-

Teachers, caught between the budget forces and the PTA are sometimes tagged incompetent, and there's a movement to hold everyone under the scrutiny of Achievement Tests-

But I believe teaching is like other vocations- obviously the more experience one has, the better they become at it. We should encourage people to become involved in it- not limit it and fill positions with the agressive "insiders" one would more likely find in business

The teachers I learned the most from were those like Mr. Holland- the one's who could inspire me - and infect me with a little bit of their own enthusiasm for their subject areas

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[–] PersonB 19 years ago

I once heard a story about this big shot conductor. This is back in the mid twentieth century. Anyway, this conductor was about to conduct an orchestra through a live broadcast of a concert. As it was live, he told the horns to never empty their valves, because it was uncouth. During the concert, the horns were cracking all over the place. As soon as the concert ended, he stormed up to them and demanded to know why they cracked so much. The four horns then emptied their valves on his shoes.

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[–] smeagol05 17 years ago

If I remember correctly, he was upset because the trumpet player emptied his spit valve (my music teacher always called it a spit valve too) on a girl's shoe. In my band class, the bass players always had rags and stuff they put on the floor to empty their spit valves onto.

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[–] stormrider57 20 years ago

Good for him, then he got something valuable from this movie. It reminded him of why he wanted to teach music in the first place.

"Cunnilingus and psychiatry brought us to this." --Tony Soprano

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[–] everpure_17 20 years ago

I am a music student and am fully moved by music and the arts. Music does involve intellect and effects are minds and thought process', but it is through our EMOTIONS. EMOTION is what music is principally about. MUSIC fuels the EMOTIONS. The primary thing behind art, literature, and music is to express emotion and to make someone feel something.I for one am glad you are not my music, art or english teacher. Students get instructed enough on things that are "intellectual" they need a break with the arts that dealves into something deeper then just facts, rules, and figures they need philosophy, art, culture, and EMOTION!!!!!Enough with what books and principal's say, make us think about bigger things then highschool and popculture, give us life- culture, make it interesting. Socratic method anyone? Mixing old literature, music, and art with new perhaps? Whatever you do for heavens sake and ours don't read and believe from a book!!!And as for administrators and gov't's that cut arts programs..de..duh..duh... i'm so angry i'm sputtering there's to much i want to say- want to shout- then there is space on the internet. I will say one thing YOU'VE FAILED ON GIVING THE STUDENTS THE BEST EDUCATION THEY CAN GET- YOU'RE SETTING SOCIETY UP FOR DISASTER!!!!!!

WE NEED MORE TEACHERS LIKE MR. KEETING(DEAD POETS...)AND MR HOLLAND

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