MovieChat Forums > Mr. Holland's Opus (1996) Discussion > A terrible movie if you are an educator

A terrible movie if you are an educator


I remember MENC (National Association for Music Education) backing this movie like it was nobody's business, but after it came out they suddenly stopped all the hoopla.

I am a music teacher and I am embarrassed that this film is often considered THE film about our profession. Now I know how math teachers feel about "Stand and Deliver". I find more inspiration in "Drumline" and "Leader of the Band" than in this Hollywood fluff.

Whoever wrote the summary of this film is pretty accurate, except I believe that music is an intellectual AS WELL AS an emotional art form. Unfortunately, this film relies more on an emotional plot than on an intellectual statement.

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I'm a music ed major and in my humble opinion, I personally can't see how this movie COULDN'T move any music educator in the world. If only all music teachers had Mr. Holland's impact.

Remember kids, dressing up like Hitler in school isn't cool!

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I find it kind of humorous that the maker of this thread missed the most obvious point of this movie: that music is more then just notes on a page.

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Are you kidding me? This is completely rediculous. This is my favourite movie, and do you want to know how I came across it? A band director. My band director was out for the day, and had called in a substitute who was at the time going to college to be a band director. For the top classes, the band played, but in the lower band classes, we watched the movie. The substitute had asked me to help him that day, so I was in there for both of my band classes, plus the lower ones as well. Well, instead of me sitting in the actual bandroom with the kids, he invited me into my band director's office (we could still see all the kids of course) to talk. I knew the substitute very well, and he knew that I, too, would like to be a band director. He then said "You have seen Mr. Holland's Opus, right?" When I said no, he replied with "Well, if you're going to be a music educator, you HAVE to watch it." Well, I did, and I watch it almost every night now. I think it's an amazing story of the great impact you can have on someone's life by just teaching them to love music, like Mr. Holland did. It proves that you don't have to be rich or famous to have touched hundreds of lives. I also think it helps a lot of band directors who, like Mr. Holland, feel that a large portion of their lives is misspent to realize that they have changed many children's lives. I know that my band director is the most important person in my life, and I will never forget what he has done for me. He has taught me a way of expressing my feelings without words. Music is my life, and nothing will ever change that. And it all started with a small-town band director from a poor band program putting a bassoon in my hands and teaching me to look beyond the notes on a page. Words cannot express how much I love my band director, nor how great an impact he has had on my life, but this movie is a FABULOUS representation of that love of music that band directors can show a student.

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Well, if it's okay for my psyche professor, Dr. harris, I guess it's alrigfht for me, Mr. Teacher... The movie is fantastic, a little schmaltzy in places, but still a beautiful film. Just because YOU dont like it, doesnt mean it doesnt have meaning to people other than you.

WHOOOOA! It's a Sack Attack! - Stroker

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Since this does seem like a poll, I will add my two cents:

I'm a band teacher (Elementary Band)- Hated the movie
My husband (band director)- Hated the movie
My co-worker (band director)- hated the movie
My former colleague (band director)- hated the movie
School's choral teacher- hated the movie
My mother (private piano teacher)- hated the movie

I could go on and on.......

I have only ever spoken with one music teacher who liked this film. Granted, I think most people who didn't like this film probably wouldn't visit this board or voice their opinions.

Okay, music has an emotional level. Got it. But I couldn't get past the unrealistic elements of "playing the sunset" or hitting a bass drummer on the head (even if he was wearing a helmet). I'd be fired for that.

Furthermore, everyone is always so focused on the EMOTIONAL element of music that they miss the TECHNICAL element of it. As a band teacher, I have to teach students how to play instruments and read music. Believe me, music is not a fun subject matter when it sounds like a train reck. All of those emotional performances produced by professional musicians were accomplished AFTER THE MUSICIAN had mastered the technical aspects of their instruments. It's like being in a reading class and telling a student in first grade to read Shakeaspeare with emotion. THEY CAN'T EVEN READ IT YET! They have to learn the fundamentals first, which is difficult.

So help me, if I have another parent that tells me that the point of my subject matter is for the kids to enjoy it and have fun, I will scream. It is okay with them that their child is CLUELESS on their instrument and that they don't practice or master concepts. According to them, band exists so that the students can "love" it. That is not the point of music education. That, boys and girls, is called music appreciation. That is a different class. Granted, love of performance and emotion of the subject matter is a wished-for perk. But no one would dream of telling the science teacher that he/she needs to make the class more "fun". Why has it fallen on educators to be entertainers. We should go to clown school. The goal of education is to TEACH!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I understand that people enjoy the movie because they see students being motivated and inspired. Fine, I get it. But the story as a whole is ridiculous, in my opinion.

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horsegrrl...I do agree with you on some aspects of what you are saying, but depending on what stage of development they are in IMO the teaching methods are very different. When kids first get to play an instrument, here it is 4th grade and every kid has to pick and instrument, and a lot of times they do not get a choice, yes you do have to make it educational and FUN, if it is not fun in the early stages you might squash interest in a child that is not ready to make the decision it he want to pursue a musical education on his own.

When a student has the information and ability to make his own decision a more formal detailed education can continue.

As a coach for many years and teaching many ages from elementary school kids to college atheletes, I have seen coaches crush kids interest in certain sports for teaching ideas they are not ready for yet. Showing someone how fun and usefull something can be can get an individual ready for that decision to put forth the hard work to get that end reward.

Music is an ART form, you do not have to go to art school to create a masterpeice painting, just as you do not need technical profeciency to create a musical masterpiece, because just as with any art form a masterpiece is in the eye of the beholder.

I will always wish I took guitar lessons as a kid, it would be more easy to write pieces, but would it change the way I like to put my emotions in music.
No, it would just make it easier to get there.

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Wow, Marillion, I have to shake my head. Are you a musician? Do you teach music? Yes, children often do not get to pick the instrument that they would have "chosen" for themselves. I have a pretty comprehensive screening process for selecting instruments for my students. Some students are simply not physically suitde for some instruments. Also, you need to work to their strengths and weaknesses. For example, a students with a poor sense of time and rhythm should not be selected to play percussion. BAnd teachers also have to take instrumentation into consideration. If you are unfamiliar with this term, I will elaborate in another reply.

Okay, music is an art form. Does that mean that any person who puts a Kazoo to their lips and blows is an accompished musician? Is a 10 year old squeaking away at a violin creating an art? No, of course not. Furthermore, I think that the latest American Idol craze proves a few points:

1. Not all people who "do" music are musicians. There are any number of hideous auditionees who truly feel as they are accomplished singers. What do the judges tell them? Take some music lessons. Obviously there is something to be said for formal training.

2. With the continuing ignorance of QUALITY music performance and training, any TOm, Dick, or Harry thinks that everyone can (in this case) sing.

3. Not all music is good music. Have you ever heard the phrase "You have to know the rules before you can break them?".


I honestly think, even as a music educator, that music is not for everyone, just as sports is not for everyone. That, I suppose, sould not be the popular opinion. I'm not going to continue to be "fun" and let students fail, just so that they don't stop playing.I have to have standards. I am an experienced enough educator and musician to understand the concept of "late-bloomers", but I do not tolerate students who do nothing. Yes, we have a great time in the lessons and band, but when the do not practice EVEr and have learned next to nothing by the end of the year, perhaps its time to realize that music is, indeed, not for everyone. I tried so hard for several years to play tennis, and no matter how nice my coach was, I still stunk. I just could not put it all together. I think it is okay that some students try and fail.

I disagree that all music is art. Dance is also an art form (of a physical variety). Does that mean that everyone that tries to dance is a dancer?

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Who says every form of music has to be accomplished to be great. All I am saying is technical vertousity is not a criteria for writing or playing great music. I love all sorts of musicians for different reasons. I can marvel in Al DiMeola's technical playing of his guitar, it is absolutely amazing he can also sound stiff at times, likewise there are thousands of guitarists more accomplished than David Gilmour but few get the power and emtion out of that instrument than he does.

For every music expert out there saying Coltrane a genius there are the same amount saying his improvisations and ramblings are rubbish, Some say Oscar Peterson is one of the most accomplished pianists playing, but he also got criticized for using too many notes. Erroll Garner also one of the most accomplished musicians had never taken a formal lesson in his life and he was absolutely brilliant. Some of the best teachers do not know everything, the best are the best because they are great at teaching students how to relate to the material. Anyone can download information, that is easy.

If you read what I said earlier I never said formal training wasnt neccessary, i think I said I wish I did have formal training, but it is not a prerequisite to a great musician.

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I disagree that all music is art. Dance is also an art form (of a physical variety). Does that mean that everyone that tries to dance is a dancer?
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If they continue and do it regurally and try to keep improving, YES THEY ARE!!
If they try and quit no.

My neice has been playing sax for years she had always struggled with it then it all caught up, but no matter how she played with her determination, dedication and enthusiasm she was always a saxophone player. And you are not going to tell me any different just because she would not know all you think she should.

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Wow, Marillion, I have to shake my head. Are you a musician?
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As an educator, maybe you should have read my post more closely....

I will always wish I took guitar lessons as a kid, it would be more easy to write pieces, but would it change the way I like to put my emotions in music.
No, it would just make it easier to get there.

That was in the post you responded to. I have played guitar for 22 years.(also taught myself drums and bass) I have never had a lesson, and yes I am a musician, we write and play our own music. I would have been a musician longer but back in elementary school I was forced to take up the trumpet,not because it best suited e but all the others were already taken and I got stuck with it. And I am sorry music appreciation and technical teaching go hand in hand, its hard to master something you do not respect. I got infomation downloaded by a snobby music teacher and at that young age it was a death sentence. I love all sorts of music from Jazz, Rock, to Classical and even ones I do not like too much I still respect talent, but it is only my opinion just like you have yours on what is meaningful music. However corny "play the sunset" is, I look at that more of what a teacher says can have a significant influence on certain kids lives. In a movie it has to be quick it cannot play out itself over a period of time so thus it looks corny. My 9th grade science teacher (who was hardly Einstien) taught me more about life and growing up than anyone (outside my parents). And guess what I ended up going to college for Biology. Wether you want to admit it or not you can have more influence on these kids than just music, which is what this movie was trying to state. How many of your students are going to be doing something in the music field, very few, and that is what this movie was about, teaching more than the reqired curriculum, using your status as an educator to try and improve childrens lives and he realized his impotance in that. This was about using music as a tool for a lot of these kids to see the bigger picture, get off your musician high horse and see what this movie is saying. Your problem is you are looking at it as a musician, look at it as an educator, not a music educator, and if are going to tell me you would not want to have that much influence on young kids lives, please look for another job.

One last thing, Ray Charles was a very average pianist, and a below average singer. But what made him the legend he is, his style and emotion he put into whatever he did.

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Sorry hosregrrl, I really don't believe all those people you listed actually watched the movie and hated it.

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This is rediculous.
"Playing the sunset..."
Music is most definitely about something more than notes. It's not about something you hear, it's about something you feel with your heart, and just playing the notes isn't going to get you that feeling. Music isn't something that people can just learn about as if it's English. It's something that many will hear, some will feel, and few will understand. Sure, not every kid will be able to play more than just what's on the page, but for those of us who have an amazing passion for music, it's not about that. It's not about playing what someone has written for you-It's about playing what you feel. I've been told before that I play beautifully..as if I'm actually feeling the piece. That's because my bassoon teacher told me to play with drama...Imagine what the music is about and relate it to something in your life. It's not that I've just got a way with music...it's that my heart's really feeling what my bassoon is playing. The music has a way with me. I live for the music. I couldn't learn that from notes on a page.

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by - horsegrrl

Since this does seem like a poll, I will add my two cents:

I'm a band teacher (Elementary Band)- Hated the movie
My husband (band director)- Hated the movie
My co-worker (band director)- hated the movie
My former colleague (band director)- hated the movie
School's choral teacher- hated the movie
My mother (private piano teacher)- hated the movie
Perhaps the people listed hated this movie because it made them realize that they are sub-par educators who have never had a truly positive, life-changing effect on any student's life. Hmmm?

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Horesegrrl, I understand your complaint that teachers shouldn't be expected to entertain the class and make it fun. As a former sciences teacher myself, I would add that this also applies to other subjects as well as music! However, I think most reasonable viewers understand that this is the usual Hollywood unreality, although of course teachers do need a certain degree of adaptability in their methods.

While I certainly appreciated this film, I don't consider it to be the defining movie about teaching music as a profession. Learning music properly -- reading the notes, understanding the theory, and playing an instrument -- requires a lot of sheer unexciting hard work, study, and practice. No, you can't wax emotional while reading Shakespeare before learning your ABC's. However, obviously music isn't simply something technical; there is an emotional component.

Clearly it's not simply "Close your eyes and play the sunset." From that scene, I inferred that another past teacher had already done the hard work in teaching this future governor the fundamentals of the clarinet, that this girl knew the notes and all the technical aspects of the instrument, but lacked confidence and needed to focus on the beauty and emotions of the music rather than worrying about whether she might make a mistake.

Most viewers should realize the hard work actually involved, and consider this simply a film that shows a teacher finding his teaching style and making a tremendous contribution in the lives of his many students. Agreed, this movie doesn't really depict the day to day reality of music teaching and I do see your distinction with regard to music appreciation class, but I still believe it has an overall compelling message.

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Horsegrrl, I had to comment on your post from 2/1/06....

First, you said, "Believe me, music is not a fun subject matter when it sounds like a train reck."

I think you were trying to say "train wreck." Perhaps it's not such a bad idea for kids to spend a little more time learning the "3Rs" rather than learning to play the sunset, hmm?

Meanwhile, did you ever consider that of the 3Rs, only one of them actually begins with the letter R? Perhaps another statement about the American education system.

Personally, I like Jack Black's line in School of Rock: "Those who can, do; those who can't, teach; and those who can't teach, teach gym."

All of that being said, I must admit that I had 2 very memorable teachers in high school who were truly inspirational and really had a profound impact on my future. However, there were also about a dozen who were so stupid I couldn't even imagine how they got through high school themselves.

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You MUST be joking.

Intellectual as well as emotional - yes.

But ANYone can learn to read, and duplicate, notes intellectually. Few find the ability, to have the emotion come thru it as well, and become music. Many produce incredible music, with no intellect what-so-ever. No one produces 'music' with out emotion - they only produce noise, flat and lifeless.

I'm not sure who would consider this "....THE film aboout our profession.".

It is a movie. A movie about life, and the changes, struggles, and emotions of living it. It's about how so many small things (in our own minds) touch so many others in deep and profound ways.

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I don't have a musical bone in my body, and I am not a teacher, but i thought this film did nothing but help bring light to the fact that so many arts programs are being cut from schools in the country and is does indeed show why they are needed in every school, it was a very positive film in my opinion.

“Do not fear death... only the unlived life.” - Natalie Babbitt

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Ok, first of all, the spit valve controversy: I think the point of that moment was not that the trumpeter shouldn't have emptied the valve but that he shouldn't have emptied it on a fellow student's shoe. It's not that hard to aim, and, having spent many years in the brass section, dumping that on someone else is uncouth.

Next, to the comments about how hitting a kid with a helmet would get you fired... Maybe. But that's not the point. The point is rather that he was being innovative and engaging the student in order to teach him. I think one of the biggest problems with the ranks of mediocre teachers in America is that they worry about getting fired and so are afraid to actually teach for fear they might offend a principal or a parent or their union. Every teacher who ever inspired me could have very likely been fired many times over, but they weren't because their kids understood why they didn't tiptoe political correctness, etc. and didn't rat them out.

Third, the "play the sunset" thing.... As a longtime music student who's also done some teaching, I firmly agree with those educators who believe music is a precise, technical science which must be mastered, and not approached from a feel-good, everyone's-a-winner perspective. However, although perhaps "play the sunset" is an asinine way of expressing it, I believe that understanding to play between the notes is just as important. And I don't think there needs to be an either-or situation here: technical proficiency and emotional proficiency go hand in hand. One complements the other for a player to achieve true mastery over a piece. Part of the difficulty of being a musician, or any kind of artist for that matter, is the mental block once you can read the notes and play them until you can really concentrate and feel the sense of the piece. Granted, the manner in which this is presented takes some liberty with the process, but I think what the scene means is pretty clear.

Fourth, obviously there are "technical errors." So what? This is not a documentary- it is a movie. It's even conceivable that the writers had some musical background and intentionally chose to alter some factual elements about music and music education to make a more aesthetically-satisfying film. If this were an "accurate" picture, we'd receive a two-hour lecture on the various modes, the circle of fifths, etc. Accurate lawyer shows would spend a full hour with a lawyer looking stuff up in a library and typing it up. War films would spend their time showing the soldiers twiddling their thumbs for hours on end waiting for action. Etc. This movie uses music as a plot device, just like other teacher movies use other subjects- math, Latin, etc., without really being about those subjects. As long as its message about music is positive, why get so worked up about the details? Certainly, there are far worse "music" movies out there- like the atrocious "Ray." For other good music movies from recent years, I also recommend "Brassed Off" and "Shine."

Fifth, to the person who wondered at the "symphony" at the end and how unrealistic that was, I disagree. I've actually participated in two farewell concerts conducted by outgoing band directors with complicated pieces without any real rehearsal, aside from a quick readthrough before the performance, off-stage by another one of the music teachers. Something similar might've happened here; the musicians may have additionally been sent the pieces in advance.... Anyway, it is a movie, and not supposed to be "real."

Last, some of you really overdo the all-caps thing. It's annoying.

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From a driver's ed teacher's perspective, I think he did pretty good.

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Well, it just so happens that I am a professional musician and vocalist. I can memorize any piano piece and as well as any song. I know so much music history I can probably teach the damn class without a book! But I know, as well as ANY GOOD musician does, that without emotion and "feeling" the music you might as well be banging out "Mary Had a Little Lamb" and calling it "Moonlight Sonata". You do need the know-how to be a master of any trade but to be the best you have to have the heart. And you call yourself a teacher??? Your comment really reflects your style of teaching, crappy and dull.

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so how about the movie...y'all are fighting about whose a better and more educated musical artist...this film reflects an example of life from the perspective of someone who shares our love for music....let the details go and make music. Quit work, and make music, get drunk and make music....don't sweat the small s**t

....yes, we have the greatest profession ever....

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you're all focusing too much on the musical aspect of it (the obvious)...
the point of the movie is a passionate person who had a dream...a goal (writing his music as a professional musician/conductor) but never succeeded because "life" and reality of certain factors got in the way. is that level of success attainable? yes, of course, but not for that particular character. instead, he followed another path which made life for him and others so much more meaningful....and that concept of the movie actually has nothing to do with music. just my opinion. inspiring movie.

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actually refering to what someone said above. paul Mccartney knows how to read and write music....

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I have read through the entire thread and I have to confess I loved the movie. No, I am not a music teacher or even in the music profession. In fact, I can't even read a note of music. I am always intrigued by how terribly critical people become of a movie or film. I try not to take things to seriously when I watch a film because I know that most of the time it's a fictional story. Let me repeat that, it's a FICTIONAL story. That means that it's not meant to be taken literally.

Mr. Holland's Opus was a great movie, but I didn't think to much about the fact that one of the students was wearing a football helmet and Mr. Holland has tapping on it with his "soft" drumsticks. I doubt that anyone would have gotten fired over something like that, at least not back in the 60's when the movie began.

In the 60's we weren't so terribly into political correctness as we are now in 2006. It really messed up this country having so many stupid things that have to be politically correct for the few. The point being that you have to remember what the times were like if you were around in the 60's and not what they are today in a very different world. I grew up in the 60's and 70's so I know.

Why are the educated people in the music profession so critical of one another and worried so much about the "small stuff" when you could be doing something more meaningful and productive with your lives. Some one in a post here said "It truley shows what kind of teacher you are, dull and boring." I work with 3rd graders and I love what I do. It doesn't matter to me what anyone else thinks, what matters is what I think. I know for a fact that I have touched many of my kids lives, whether or not I have changed them in their thinking or behavior, only time will tell. I give my students the best I have to offer. That's what teaching is all about, giving of yourself so that others can learn from you in a fun and motivating way.

I have to agree with Noah, "It's just a movie!" Noah, I am worried about how mental everyone is becoming in the world.

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