MovieChat Forums > Doctor Who (2006) Discussion > Jodie Whittaker: Doctor Who's 13th Time ...

Jodie Whittaker: Doctor Who's 13th Time Lord (bbc)


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-40624288
https://youtu.be/nryiwb1gcBA

She said it feels "incredible" to take on the role, saying: "It feels completely overwhelming, as a feminist, as a woman, as an actor, as a human, as someone who wants to continually push themselves and challenge themselves, and not be boxed in by what you're told you can and can't be."

And she told fans not to be "scared" by her gender.

"Because this is a really exciting time, and Doctor Who represents everything that's exciting about change," she said, adding: "The fans have lived through so many changes, and this is only a new, different one, not a fearful one."

Chibnall said the 13th Doctor was always going to be a woman.

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I am excited. I liked her in Attack the Block, and I really liked her in Broadchurch. I wasn't a fan of sonic sunglasses Capaldi Doctor, so really any change can be great or not so great. I hope this is a good change.

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Saw this trending on twitter. All the comments I saw were about how there's this "backlash" from white men who can't handle it. I didn't see any tweets from men who can't handle it. Came here to see if there's discussion, and we get a quote from the feminist actress telling us not to be "scared". Sounds like she's projecting.

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Sounds like she's read some of the fearful panic mongering that's been popular since Missy came on the scene.

That's a good thing that the expected backlash has not materialised as yet. Not really a cause to suspect her reassurances as "projecting". (projecting what? Her own fear of a female Doctor? Her fear of a male doctor?)

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No, her fear of a backlash. But, as a poster pointed out below, apparently there is a backlash. I just didn't see it. I rarely check out Facebook.

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Well if you have been paying attention to social media, you would have noticed that there is always a not insignificant reaction from those opposed to a female doctor every time it comes up as a possibility.

Just witness below the demented twisted arguments for denouncing the show by virtue of her expressing her feelings "as a woman, and actor, a human, a feminist".

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I didn't see much backlash on twitter, but I did on facebook.

(I should edit that it wasn't all from men either)

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As I white male, I think its just another case of the SJWs getting their own way by stamping their feet and not being able to see that the doctor being male was actually a good thing. Making the doctor a woman completely eliminates a part of the doctor that any real person desiring equality would want: a strong male feminist role model.

Theres all this talk of female role models, but what about male role models that actually accept women as equals? Not a lot of them about that arent preachy as fuck. I dont really see what the problem was with creating a new character in the doctor who universe. Call me cynical, but I think its sexist that the bbc dont think a female character can be popular and successful without climbing on the back on a male character.

With all that said, it was obvious this new doc was going to be a woman. Theyve been laying the foundations for a few years. Adding to the canon and rewriting history a bit here and there(They doctor talking about being a woman before, even though we know thats not true for example). All I can say is jodie better knock out the park or the "angry white men" will be out in force to get her.

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We all know where she's gonna keep the sonic screwdriver...giggity

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And the tardis will be tidy for a change. :p

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Good points.

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See I read this and can say after the first paragraph I never saw the doctor being male being a good thing because I don't give two hoots about a strong male feminist role model or even a male role model. I want a strong Doctor who fits the stories and stories that fit the doctor in question. If the stories they have got for Whittaker are good then it works. If not then they should have got someone else who fit the stories whether they be male, female, black, white or a three legged dog with a cat fetish.

Because if Capaldi was in Matt Smith's stories they wouldn't work, if Tom Baker was in Hartnell stories they wouldn't work. If McCoy was in Tennant or Eccleston Stories they wouldn't work, if Tennant was in Eccleston stories or vice versa they wouldn't work the same.

The Doctor has to be right for the stories because the doctor in question affects the story and in the end the story is what counts. So the question could the doctor be a POC or female wasn't a SJW thing but a question about opening up the stories because with Clara gone are the days where the companion is the way into the story. The Doctor is who we relate too so we need to open up the stories outside the white saviour bloke trope. Because we've had so many I can puke because the stories all end the same. Hell even the doctor points it out - few people question when he goes in and acts like the smartest person in the room by barking.

Storywise I want to know if that be the same if he wasn't a white male and what would the Doctor do either way? How would the doctor react? Would the doctor be more empathetic or more ruthless by being something other? It opens up the story.

The Doctor could be a damn newt who needs a helmet to breath if the stories worked in my opinion. And it is sad to say that

All I can say is jodie better knock out the park or the "angry white men" will be out in force to get her.


Are angry white men that insecure they can't cope with any form of change?

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If the point of a female taking over the role was to fit the story, you would have a point. But you're that naive, right? This was about gender equality and the BBC being seen to be proactive.

So if we accept the fact that Jodie was cast for purely feminist reasons, then it must follow that feminism is the goal. And as such it's far more important that a male feminist character remain, than a woman be put in to tick a box.

Thing to remember is that your opinion isn't how this always are. 2 seconds on Facebook will tell you that no one else cares about what actor is right for what story. It's about checking boxes, or it's about sexism. Nothing more.

And the last statement was sarcasm aimed at those who would claim sexism if Jodie sucks in the part.

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And in this day and age do you seriously think that Whittaker being cast was purely a tick box exercise? It wasn't. Doctor Who is a flag ship seller. This choice isn't simply about being feminist. It is about keeping the franchise alive and knowing they've written themselves into a corner.

In nu who they've done the angry war torn lead, they've done the arrogant pretty lead, they've done the naive out of water romantic/needing kept down to earth lead and they've done the tired but able to give big speech lead. All done with white males. If you are going to keep flogging the show world wide then another angle needs to be tried to keep the franchise fresh.

This choice isn't simply checking boxes or sexism, it is business. And it fits the canon because the Doctor isn't human and not just limited to earth. Hell the Master was a lizard once and Romana tried on a short silver being of indiscriminate gender before. So why the hell not be a woman or as I said a newt who needs a helmet to breath? Tom Baker wanted a companion that was a talking cabbage as a companion back in the day.

The sad thing is that because Whittaker doesn't fit the mould of before there has to be disclaimer asking folk not to lose their shit over a change. In fact it is a bit patronising for her to have to say that as it is naive to think this choice is just feminism and not more a cynical business move to keep a cash cow alive by giving writers a way to open up stories that previously weren't open to them and to make splashes in marketing at minimal cost.

Think about it a female doctor and a human male companion? Or even a female doctor and a human female companion - potential for very different dynamics than the human companions and doctors in nu who.

And your previous last statement doesn't read as sarcasm it reads as your head has seriously disappeared to somewhere where the sun doesn't shine.

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Stopped reading after the first sentence as you clearly have no clue what the fuck you're talking about past your own experience of not caring about the gender of the doctor. You aren't the only fan and what you believe means fuck all in the face of overwhelming evidence that says otherwise.

You think it's about the best actor yet the new show runner just brought in someone they know. Just like rtd did when Chris left. It's all bullshit politics and nepotism. you are one of the few that can't see it.

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Oh I'm blind, so blind and now with your reply I can see. Thank you so your presence and words are so... so wonderful 🙄🙄🙄🙄

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You must be. You didn't even see why huffy being made a male would be so offensive to the fans of the show. Even a male slayer that wasn't buggy would be changing the cannon to suit an agenda.

You can be flippant all you like, but your only come back to any points are based on personal reasons. And in case you missed it, the rest of us aren't talking about what you think. We are all talking about the masses and what they are saying.

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[deleted]

And your response to me stating huffy and buggy just shows how you were trolling in the first place. As long as the story fit and it was done well then a gender swap episode for Buffy could work and not be offensive as can a female or POC Doctor as that too can be genre. Sorry you have gotten so caught up in your gender identity issues not to see that.

Also I never said I was talking for anyone else by myself and will continue to do so even flippantly. Though your replies are clearly attempts to get me to shut up. So the only reasonable way to response is with sarcasm especially if you are now the voice of the masses.

Sorry I missed the coronation.

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And now I'm a troll? Yeah, buh bye, but bye.

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fishpan:
It's not patronizing for Whittaker to say that----obviously there are a lot of folks who can't stand the change---she simply acknowledged the issues people were going to have with her being cast in the role,because they do,and it didn't take long for it to come out,either. That was her being real about the situation. I agree with everything else you said though---especially about switching the role up from being played by only white males (which happened because the show was mainly written by white males,anyway.) Like you said, they've already run through the entire white male gamut as far as white male characters are concerned---so it's way past time for something different as far as Dr. Who is concerned. This ain't the '50s/'60s where white men dominated everything onscreen anymore---it's the multicultural 21st century. The world has changed since Dr. Who first appeared on TV screens, so it's about time Dr. Who changed right along with it. Yay!

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FordFairlane:
Just STFU. Nobody cares what you think, it's a done deal. You just don't want to see a woman in a role where she's not defined by how pretty/naked she is, or sucking up to some dude, or just put there to make him look straight,lol. God forbid a woman should have the most powerful role in a series. If you don't like it, don't watch it. As a woman, I'm glad to hear that a woman's been cast in the role. It'll give the series a fresh new start

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I love the "white" men thing. Sure, because leading male feminists are typically black or Asian, LOL! What delusional drivel gets mindlessly repeated by the bubble dwelling SJW crowd.

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"All the comments I saw were about how there's this "backlash" from white men who can't handle it."

As a white male i find comments like this offensive.Why is it if a woman defends a female characters strength,sexuality and gender she's labelled as a brave defender of equality.But if a man defends a male characters gender and masculinity he's sexist and hates women.It's not that i can't handle a female Doctor.I just don't like the idea.No more than women would like the idea of a male Buffy.

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If Buffy turned male and the story worked as a female I wouldn't mind.

If Buffy was an alien shown to be able to change form then I have to question what stories and attitudes that alien would have if they came to situations from different perspectives.

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Again, the world doesn't revolve around you. Just because you'd be fine with means nothing to conversation.

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Thank you so much for telling me my place sir, where is m'manners? Shall I just go back to m' place in the kitchen m'lord. Shall I or can I go outside and hav m'vitals and see some sun while washing dries.

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So that's your comeback to being shown up to be wrong? Well done. You make sure to give yourself a big pat on the back.

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I'm wrong?

Confused - he stated that he likes a female doctor as much as women wouldn't like a male Buffy. I say that isn't the case why?

I have a vagina and identify as a woman so I can disagree with a sweeping generalisation about my gender's opinion. Or am I not allowed to even talk now.

But IMO as long as a gender swap story is done well and acknowledges why it has happened then it could work, not sure you could do it right but I'm not going to say it couldn't be pulled off.

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Ford Fairlane:
The whole damn world dosen't revolve around your whiny sexist a** either, white boy. Go the hell off and whine someplace else. As long as white men have dominated the media, you've always been able to see someone who looks like you in every damn show that's ever been made. So you ain't got s*** to complain about. You just want to whine to hear yourself whine,that's all. Once again, nobody gives a f*** what your whiny,arrogant,privileged white behind thinks. Now STFU and move the hell on.

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"If Buffy turned male and the story worked as a female I wouldn't mind."

Then your in the minority.The mere idea of changing Buffy's gender would no doubt bring hoards of complaints of sexism and inequality from women everywhere.And there's the double standard.If the entertainment media really wants to work toward gender equality then they should create more original content geared toward strong female characters.Instead of this corny gender bending gimmick of taking strong male characters from Ghostbusters to Doctor who and making them women.

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What complete garbage. Speculating about who would complain if Buffy was made a dude?

Last time I checked, Buffy doesn't regenerate. Why the hell would they recast her with a guy?

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Due to it being a genre show a magical gender swap is possible. Not likely but possible.

So that being said if done right Buffy or any Scooby could be gender swapped and I personally wouldn't be offended. But the personality would have to remain similar to what happened before. Something that isn't the case with the doctor as each regeneration is basically a new person.

But that is me. As long as the stories work that is what is important.

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The doctor's personality isn't the same each time though. When a completely different actor was recast for the role in 1966, they made it inevitable that a woman would one day play the role.

I'm only surprised that the opportunity wasn't exploited sooner.

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Exactly as I said the doctor becomes a different person on each regeneration.

So male female or three legged newt is open to thecharacter. Personally I think they've realised they are stuck in a corner right now and a woman gives a real easy way to take the show in a different direction.

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Firstly i meant switching Buffy's gender in a remake.And secondly your extremely niave if you think feminist groups everywhere wouldn't protest at the idea of taking a strong female role model like Buffy and switching her gender.And rightfully so.Strong female role models like Buffy are important.I sure wouldn't accuse them of being feminist man haters.Yet if you defend the Doctor's gender and position as a strong male role model your somehow labelled sexist and can't handle change.




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A remake and a recast of the same character in the same show are two entirely different things.

Buffy was written specifically to deliver the novelty of a high school girl being a vampire killer. If that was changed it wouldn't be a remake of Buffy.

There's only been one instance of a franchise being reconceived and rebooted with a set different characters of a different gender. That franchise didn't need strong male characters. It needed academic nerds, geeks and misfits. Gender was irrelevant

What happened there then? The broflakes wet their pants over nothing.

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Remake or recast. Makes no difference.they both refer to changing the gender of an established beloved character.

Mythology and explanations aside movies and tv shows need to stop screwing with the characters we love like this.whats next.a white female Shaft.

And if the franchise your hinting at is Ghostbusters then it's a terrible example.That movie sucked.

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There is a difference between changing a character mid show, and making a new show with character cast in a different gender than in a previous adaptation.

Whether people think something sucks or not is irrelevant.

What's wrong with making a film with a tough, streetwise private detective who's name happens to be Shaft?

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You didn't specify a reboot gender change for Buffy. A male lead in a buffy reboot would make it a different show. And I think they did years back in the UK with a show with Philip Glennester in it. That didn't work because the writing was rubbish and production values were bad.


But a female doctor is not a reboot. It is a regeneration a continuation of the same show!!!!

It is okay for that type of change to happen.


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Except Buffy hasn't been played by 12 actors and isn't from a race of aliens who can, and have been shown to, change gender.

I'm sorry to burst your bubble but your idea that the Doctor's gender and "masculinity" is unavoidable makes you sexist.

But it's ok. Most men who are sexist just think they are merely defending their position as leaders of the world.

And unfortunately, women can be sexist too. It's rooted in self-hatred that's taught since childhood when they realize they are not worth as much as their little brother to their dad.

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[deleted]

Brits don't care that they'll mess up the title of the franchise for people who speak other languages and have different words for male doctor and female doctor.

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In Brazilian Portuguese:
male Doctor - Doutor
female Doctor - Doutora.
But "Doctor Who", the TV series, is not translated.

On a side note: I liked her introduction. Her choice of wardrobe was good; it sends a message "These boots were made for walking (running, in Whovian language)!!!".

I believe the show won't suffer any loss of quality: there will be action-packed episodes filled equally with all the timey-wimey-wibbly-wobbly that we love so much and character development.

Best wishes

Rowanna

P.S.: (*sighs*) Still not a ginger!!!

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Then your title won't change. Unfortunately, in my language the word for male doctor is the same as english word, but the word for female doctor is different. I wonder how the translators will wrap their heads around it.

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Is your language Fuqwit?

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No, but you're fluent in it.

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Well, since they are writing the show in English and it's largely taking place in an English speaking world, no, sorry they don't care that you watch a castrated show with subtitles or dubbing or some other crap.

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Maybe I'm concentrating on a stupid minor thing, but I used to work as a translator and this is the first thing that popped into my mind. Call it a professional deformation.

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So can we assume that people keen to point out that fewer people are complaining than those anticipating a backlash have zero complaints?

Great to hear.

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Sigh.... I'm anticipating someone who will be able to carry off the role of the Doctor - she really seems to be very pleasant and likeable. However, I'll getting the vibe at the moment from the above quotes that she wants to make the programme some kind of political platform for the purposes of helping to convert and subvert and replace things that men identify with to make media critically "woman-friendly", ie. that is to say, by placing men not on an equal footing but rather socially corralled into a secondary status and "out of the way". The key qualities of the Doctor come from a very definite experience as an intellectual and sometimes staid, aloof and clinical personality stemming from this and his heritage as a Time Lord, as well as a passionate humane individualist who understands emotional needs and compassion. This blueprint is partially owed to the fact that we assume he sees things from a male perspective and acts through a male type perspective as a primary reality without being isolated from a feminine awareness that is also present within him, ie. present in terms of his values, personality, his connections with the "female" TARDIS, his relationship to female companions.

I'm in no way prejudiced about giving a female actor a chance at the role of the Doctor. However, I am worried about the intentions expressed. I'm not concerned by the mere fact of a female actor or feminism as a force to shape society or the media. The fact that these opinions are expressed outwardly as if to announce a manifesto of "getting rid of something" and not merely as values to motivate someone to do their best job as a talented female actor to lend credence to the character, seems to present a sour note rather than a positive one. If you politicise something you introduce conflict and resistance, and if your platform is authoritarian in nature this creates the possibility of sustained conflict and unhappiness. It's not a matter of "fearing change" therefore.

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Acknowledging the change in an open and honest way is not setting up a platform. Get a grip of yourself.

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A careful observer can pick up on ideological changes in a group or in a media communication so "openness and honesty" are not necessarily required or valid. Honesty is a good thing but as with the modes of propaganda it is only part of the strategy of forcefuly convincing an audience that your way is the only way and there are no alternatives and your only choices are to agree or stop watching.

I might be wrong about their attitude but it is concerning that they would choose to make a public point about it - why not just let people have their own opinions and allow Whittaker to do her job and impress us with her ability and charisma like so many previous actors have in the role? I'm not interested in the program being shaped by gender politics whether it is being initiated by men or women of whatever political opinion pertaining to gender.

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"A careful observer can pick up on ideological changes in a group or in a media communication so "openness and honesty" are not necessarily required or valid. "

What a demented load of tosh. It's not valid for her to be transparent about her outlook because you might possibly have anticipated them?

Completely paranoid reactionary nonsense to hearing stuff you really don't want to face in reality. By which I mean the fact that a female doctor will turn out successful and popular without any undue controversy.

People can make public whatever they like. Seriously. Jodie Whittaker being open does not preclude you or any other bozo from forming and having their own opinions. Your anxiety about that situation in light of Jodie's perfectly valid admissions is entirely your problem.

By the way. She's talking about how she feels, as a feminist and a woman, an actor, a human etc, about winning the role. At not point does she state that the role needs to be more feminist. Or are you similarly anxious about a humanist or and actorist agenda being more important than the role itself? No you're just cherrypicking for the stuff that pushes your buttons.

Adios, broflake.

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""A careful observer can pick up on ideological changes in a group or in a media communication so "openness and honesty" are not necessarily required or valid. "

What a demented load of tosh. It's not valid for her to be transparent about her outlook because you might possibly have anticipated them?"

No, it's valid but in the light of it serving an ideological agenda I would think it's validity is greatly lessened. My anticipating it is just being alert to the prevailing patterns in society which are real and factual.

"Completely paranoid reactionary nonsense to hearing stuff you really don't want to face in reality. By which I mean the fact that a female doctor will turn out successful and popular without any undue controversy.

People can make public whatever they like. Seriously. Jodie Whittaker being open does not preclude you or any other bozo from forming and having their own opinions. Your anxiety about that situation in light of Jodie's perfectly valid admissions is entirely your problem."

Hey, being paranoid is just being prepared. :) I acknowledge the reality of reactionary gender politics but I don't have to passively accept it. Speaking as a public person about politics makes Whittaker a political actor because such statements enter a realm of comparison and contest. Identifying publically as a feminist in: (a) a politically structured corporation which demands gender diversity as an ideological priority, ie. BBC, (b) a commercial world that acknowledges the power of female consumers and prioritises to serve their needs over men, eg. television entertainment, carries forth the meaning of wishing to force and control much like the reality of the Patriarchy. We don't know what she thinks about that but we do know what she says and that carries more weight and significance in the context of public discourse. I am not complaining about her convictions and values but what she intends to do or not do and the impact this will have on how the Doctor is written and played.

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"By the way. She's talking about how she feels, as a feminist and a woman, an actor, a human etc, about winning the role. At not point does she state that the role needs to be more feminist."

Quoting Whittaker:
"It feels completely overwhelming, as a feminist, as a woman, as an actor, as a human, as someone who wants to continually push themselves and challenge themselves, and not be boxed in by what you're told you can and can't be."

So, it sounds here like she is advocating for simply not being limited by designated "female roles". I fully support that message. In the context of the "modernising" agenda of the Doctor Who leadership though and her enthusiasm about change for the sake of change her feminism could easily extent beyond simply the expectation of having the opportunity to play a traditionally male role. Was she hired to help push a "feminisation" agenda in Doctor Who? For me Doctor Who is about fun and interesting individuals not gender conflict.

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That's why a female doctor is perhaps overdue. There never was any barrier over the past fifty years to a fun and interesting female actress, except convention and the status quo being overvalued or fear of the reaction from the audience.

Perhaps a specific agenda re casting was necessary, ultimately, in order for the show to explore a female doctor.

There is an perception among many people that a woman is ought to be boxed in from playing the role of Doctor who. So Whittaker is correct to acknowledge the significance of being the woman to win the role and to change that perception.

Haven't heard anything that suggests creativity, fun etc being skewed towards feminism, if such a thing is possible.

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keithmovies:

Exactly. That's all she's saying. If she didn't talk about it at all or tried to completely brush aside the significance of her stepping into the role, people would have complained that she was trying to downplay it too much. She knows her being cast in the role is a major game-changer, and she is simply acknowledging that and how people are going to feel about it. That being said, I'd definitely want to see her kill it in the role, lol.

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> 'She said it feels "incredible" to take on the role, saying: "It feels completely overwhelming, as a feminist ..." '

And right there is the problem. She put being a feminist ahead even of being an actress. So this is ideological, not a question of drama or inventive casting? Well they can eff right off. THIS SHOULD *NOT* BE A FEMINISM ISSUE.

But as with the fiasco of the Ghostbusters remake, this is a pathetic white-knighting gesture, and all the sneering misandronists are enjoying their crow at anyone trying to point out the pointless gesture that's being made.

One thing I don't understand: I'm genuinely supportive of the need to have strong, central characters for women, but why does this need to be achieved by co-opting existing male roles and coasting on their established brand recognition? Isn't that a bit condescending, almost suggesting women can't do it on their own? And on the reverse side of the claimed "backlash", isn't the true nature of moves like this made clear in the misandronistic snark of the people (not all of them women) being jubilant at the prospect of something being taken away from men? That in itself is puerile.

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So she isn't allowed to acknowledge that she's a feminist? She isn't allowed to be open and honest?

Take a vacation broflake.

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It kinda pisses all over the idea that this is anything but a box ticking exercise for the BBC. All the "best person for the job" conversations go out the window when she talks feminism being her reason for taking the role before he acting challenge. This is matched by the new show runner saying "t was always going to be a woman", which is in itself sexist. No matter how good an audition a man put in he was never getting the part.

Feminism is supposed to be about equality, not shifting the balance to the other extreme.

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So you think it would have been better for the BBC to tell Whittaker, "Oh by the way, if you happen to have any feminism in you, could you please keep it to yourself. Just in case people think we want them to think that this is a politically motivated appointment".

So what if it was always going to be a woman? For fifty years it was always going to be a man. Saying that it was always going to be a woman simply acknowledges the fact that they were always going to take this opportunity this time to break new ground with the doctor character. Gender not being a factor in finding acting talent, this stated policy is entirely justified.

"Feminism is supposed to be about equality, not shifting the balance to the other extreme."

So you want there to be a male and a female doctor at the same time? Or you want there to be a female doctor without anyone acknowledging that fact in any way? Which is it? What would placate you?

Consciously hiring a woman then represent an unwelcome "extreme" that you have an issue with. Whereas you were comfortable with the previous extreme, where the Doctor was consciously not cast as a woman, and had no appetite to challenge that with vague and tenuous arguments.

Using someone's honesty and forthrightness against them because it frightens you. Please. Have some dignity.

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Jesus Christ, that's a shit load of assumptions in one post. Perhaps you'd like to just come right out with it and say I hate women?

The point is that there are a lot of people claiming THIS HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH FEMINISM, which it clearly does. You follow?

And to address your thinking that the doctor was always going to be a man in the past, I'm afraid your wrong there big boy. Women have been invited to and have auditioned in the past.

Let's be honest, you're just another sjw looking for an argument. Like all of them you're happy to shift the goal posts to suit your outrage. What I find hilarious is that installing a woman in the role the sjws have missed the point that a male doctor was already a great role model for feminism, perhaps even more important than having a woman in the role.

On the subject of two doctors, why not create a new character? Why go to such lengths to change canon just to get a woman in the role? Can women not be interesting and successful without climbing on the shoulders of men? Tell me again who the sexist is, little child?

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What f - uck? You the dick who cherry picks "feminism" out of the list of context in which she's expressing her feelings about winning the role, in order to call it "pissing all over" some half-baked notions of propriety.

Open a window. Have long glass of water, broflake. The go f uck yourself. You'll enjoy that far more than watching or complaining about Doctor Who by the sound of it.

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And there you have it. Typical sjw attitude, can't win the argument, starting swearing and calling people names. How precious.

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What argument? I'm not trying to win anything.

You are a stupid fucking wanker who writes CAPITALS because somebody declared how they feel as a woman, actor, human and feminist.

That makes you wanker. Not my name calling.

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lol so angry. Poor little snowflake.

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A male doctor is a great role model for feminism, perhaps even more important than having a woman????

What are you on pal?

The Doctor is an ALIEN, who regenerates. That means the Doctor doesn't play by human rules. That isn't SJWing that is what the character has been since William Hartnell decided to retire from the part.

As for this idea that we need a male role model for feminism what about making all the other male role models that. Like Iron man, Batman, spiderman, Thor, superman etc etc or better yet how about making it easier for normal blokes to teach their sons that they have nothing to fear from a woman earning more if she is in a job that warrants it instead of when it becomes a more female dominated profession tearing the status of that job down!

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I think you're too triggered to see the stupidity of your post. marvel movies have nothing to do with doctor who, don't know why you're bringing it up.

You want to make it "normal" for blokes to teach their sons that women are equals, yet you have a major problem with the doctor being an example of that to normalise it so that what you want to happen happens. You're weird. Your far too wrapped up in the actual gender of the doctor to see past your own bullshit.

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Seriously look who is talking.

Tying yourself in knots to justify why the Doctor, an alien, has to stay male because he is a male feminist role model according to you. You can make a lot of other white male superheroes that, like all the MARVEL ones.

So having one superhero, which in many ways the Doctor is turn into a woman will not make the earth stop spinning, especially as we all knew it was coming.

It is all those bros who have got bum hurt over Whittaker that are the ones who are triggered. You just seem so hurt over something happening to a fictional character that was always possible especially when you do have a lot of more white male supermen to cling to.

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Eh, you're the one getting all weird about it. I'm having a conversation. You're the one acting like I called you fat, not me.

You seem to be talking like we are all talking about "in the show". We're not. We're all talking about the sjw bullhsit that's mad the world gone mad.

Why is that the conversation is always about changing white Mose characters to something else? Why is the conversation never about making new characters that can stand on there own? Why do we need a female doctor? Why not a new character that can carve her own legacy in the same universe? Why a black bond? Why not a new character that takes over the the code name? I'd be ever bit as against making buffy a man, or ripley, or Sarah Connor or even Roseanne.

Feminism and equality is the goal of stunt casting like this. So why not go the whole way and show faith in a women to be interesting and successful without the need to ride the coat tails of men?

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What are you on about - you are saying I'm acting like you called me fat?

Seriously is that meant to make me cry?

Is the Doctor an alien who can change wholesale into another person - yes. So as long as the stories fit the Doctor can be male, female or three headed newt.

Why are you so threatened by this?

As for a black bond - don't you know the theory that Bond is a code name that is handed from person to person. Craig is the only one that doesn't fit that model but not by much.

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So when I said new character that takes over the code name, you thought I was saying fuck black people? Interesting.

I think it's clear you don't know what I'm on about because youre dumb as fuck. And no, it wasn't meant to make you cry, it was a fucking analogy you stupid fucking retard.

The story of the doctor has been changed to fit what sjws like you think is feminism. There's no reason for other than to tick a box for the BBC. It's not about serving the story, it's not about "he's an alien".

Stop being so fucking butt hurt just because people don't agree with you. And start fucking reading properly you fucking muppet.

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Okay you've started with the expletives. Go sit down in a cool dark room till the voices stop screaming at you.

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Right, so fucking muppet has nothing more to say after being found out to be just that. Back to the trolling drawing board for you mr dickhead.

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Not mr. I told you earlier I am female. But if it makes you feel better to feel you were insulted by a male then that is up to you.

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You think because your girl you get a pass on being a dickhead? Or being dumb as fuck? The fact you are a female says a lot about why you're so fucking biased. You can't see what I'm talking about because your too busy being focused on the bits between the legs.

Did you actually bother to read anything I said, or did you just assume I said female doctor is bad because the doctor needs to have a dick?

Do you not understand that it's more important for women to have actual parts written for them instead of them being shoehorned into male parts? Can you not see this going against the ultimate goal of equality?

I don't really give a shit anymore. I thought maybe you had something interesting to say, or at least we're open to a conversation without the knee jerk sjw bullshit so many MEN are currently pooping on to Facebook. See that's why I assumed you were a man. Because men are the ones that defending this shit. Most women can see this empty gesture for it is. Most women understand that men need strong male feminist role models so that there can be an end to sexist bullshit one day, and no tony fucking stark the dude who fucks chicks and never calls them again isn't a feminist role model. But even if he was, why the fuck do you think in this day and age that one less isn't going to hurt? Your a woman( I assume over 20) so you know the bullshit. I know it cos I see it and have to listen to it. I know it because when I happened to mention out of hand to my girlfriend that she was more intelligent than I am her jaw nearly hit the floor. She had never been in the company of a man that would admit that he was less than her in any way. She was trusted as nothing but arm candy. The fact she got a masters in biology and chemistry meant nothing to the guy that came before me. So yes I do think it's more important that men and young boys have male role models that treat women as equels. Sorry that doesn't fit in with your sjw mentality.

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Firstly my previous comment was not a complaint about being called a Dickhead it was about correcting you calling me MR dickhead when I am female and had already explained that in a couple of previous replies to you.

Secondly, from reading the threads you don't want a conversation and real debate. You want a circle jerk about how you feel hard done. When Hartnell quit it opened up the possibility of a doctor not being a white male, this is them just getting around to trying it. The Doctor isn't Ripley or Buffy or anything else.

This most women bull, its bull. Those who watch will watch and judge on what the stories are like.

Third - this BS about how this is about men losing a strong male feminist role model. Men have so many blinking role models in the media that the so called 'loss of one that can become male again won't cause the world to end. If anything it shows a major problem if you can't cope with the idea that you supposedly lose one when you have almost every single major superhero on big screen and small.

As for the role model of which you speak - I agree men on screen who are dicks are important. But you have multitudes of male role models that can fit that without major tweaks or breaking canon.

In action stakes on screen right now how many women are there - 2 cleaner cut to at least 5 dripping in blood and pain. Mind Buffy and Ripley aren't on screen these days

So so what if your sonic screw driver doesn't relate in the same way to ONE character the way it did before when they aren't twisting canon to make this change - learn to share. But if was about sjwing, which it isn't it as a cynical business move, maybe it is time females, like your girlfriend, got more clean cut heroes to get they shouldn't have to put up with the bull in the first place. Because did you not actually get that something has seriously gone wrong for you to get kudos points for making a simple comment when she should have already known that how great she was because of her hard work and what she has achieved. She should get that herself not need to be validated by a guy who suddenly 'gets she's smart'

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Just fuck off. Youre clearly just a cunt with no grasp on reality.

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So angry. The little piss-stained, purple faced broflake.

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Thought you were leaving, Felicia? Can't even stand by your own words now. What a loser.

Oh and how you read my words is on you.

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How we read your words is on us. Well your phrasing is not exactly polite or shows that you are an open to any real growth.

And no I am not a cunt, I admit I have one and I completely get the reality of what happens when you are born with one.

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Thanks for coming to my defence but I am not sure it is worth getting annoyed at him.

He obviously sees things the way he does and not willing to be open to change.

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Because he's a purple faced, piss stained wanker.

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Ford Fairlane:
Don't get pissed off and start calling people names because you got called on your sexist bull****, and your bull**** period. you ignorant little a**hole. You f*** off and go crawl the hell back in your little man-cave, and smash your head against the damn wall because you can't stand being challenged. Ha ha ha ha ha!

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Lol you sure stalked the fuck out of me today. Feeling a little triggered are we? I'm sorry you poor sjws can't see what's plain as day, but that's really not my fault. As for fishy knickers, she's clearly a fat bird with too much sense of entitlement. I wasn't called on sexism, none of sjws have said anything but bullshit hyperbole and ignoring things I've said that don't fit your argument of painting me as a sexist because I think it would have more appropriate to give the woman a new role that she could make her own in the same universe. But hey, if all you sjws are happy to take a mans cast offs that's on you. Have a nice day.

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Take a minute and calm down. It is you that has apparently been triggered. It is you that is flinging around the cursing the names and trying to be derogatory about the appearance of people you haven't met. Take a step back and look at this objectively.

I could be fat or maybe not. Entitled, most definitely, just like you appear to be. Doesn't mean I am wrong about the Doctor being female is not a big deal. If the actor fits the stories and gives a fresh prespective then great as I for one am fed up of huge story arcs that span multiple doctors that in the end go nowhere - Gallifrey, essentially got wrapped up in tantrum about Clara, River Song, one Christmas special.

But you calling me and other names and telling us to F off and deeming each of us all as 'Felicia' is not constructive. For one thing it hurts people who are actually called Felicia.

As for the state of my knickers, none of your business and has no baring on this discussion. Just like it doesn't have any baring on this and isn't really my business if you have a cheesy knob with a green discharge. Though if you, think it may be necessary to go see a doctor (male or female) even if it is just for your girlfriend's sake.

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lol are you kidding? All fucking idiots are triggered as fuck. Making threads devoted just to me? Making new accounts to do so? lol and all because I dont agree with your consumerised version of equality. You see a few swear words and say stupid shit like "calm down" lolololololololol

I dont care enough about short sighted scum like you lot. You won something getting a lady doctor? Pfft, you got placated by a group of sexist that needed to do something for shit ratings. You call me sexist, yet Im the one wanting roles to be made for women, and having them take mens cast offs.

Bunch of triggered little nancies. Why dont tell everyone youre a girl again, so you can get some SJWs to come to your rescue and white knight for you some more. Pathetic bunch of toss pots lol Oh wait I need to calm down now lolololololol

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Okay so now you are just repeating yourself and laughing? That isn't healthy.

Please take a moment and breath.

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Oh now its not healthy? lol whats next in your little bag of "win an argument on the internet when youve been proven to be a muppet" handbook? are you going to call me a child? Tell me to get to bed? Something stupid like that? Or perhaps youll start calling me sexist again. That seems like a go to move for your type.

Run along, Mr dickhead. No need for more crazy coming out of you and your white knights. Should you be deciding which one your going to be facetime wanking with? After all, its what theyre expecting for coming to your defence. They dont actually care about women, just getting some action. So run along and have that awkward conversation about how your really just friends.

Bye, MISTER dickhead.

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Ford Fairlane:
No, you're just too wrapped up in your own sexist bull**** to get the f*** over the doctor being a woman. It is what it is,dude. We're moved on. You can stand there crying in the wilderness about whatever you think, and no one still gives a damn. Bye.

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You've moved on? Then why are you stalking all my posts with bullshit about being sexist? I want new roles for women. I want people to have faith that a woman can be interesting and successful without hanging onto the coat tails of a man. Where's the sexism? Where is it?

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Ford Fairlane:

She didn't say that her main reason for taking the role was for feminism only. It was the new Dr. Who showrunner himself who came to her and really sold her on taking it (he'd worked with her before in a show called Broadchurch, and was impressed with her acting.) And the showrunner meant that in his mind, the character of Dr. Who was going to be a woman. I don't see how that's sexist when Dr. Who's always been a man---you really don't know what the hell you're talking about. You're just cherry picking things people say and twisting them around to mean something they didn't actually say.

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Exactly. Where is the creative intent in all of this? Whittaker holds promise as far as I can see so why sully her creative input? Tom Baker seemed motivated in part by his own real world experiences and conflicts as someone somewhat alienated from the imperatives and beliefs of his Catholic upbringing but he didn't start lecturing all of us on this subject as a public face. He creatively engaged in the material in Doctor Who which was already making salient points about the world. Similarly, Whittaker could obtain impetus from her experiences and opinions from being a woman and allow this to in part drive her interpretation and performance in the role of the Doctor. This role is not the same as her previous roles in dramas depicting women - there has to be some connection with the male identity of the Doctor and the fact that he is an alien without limited earth-centric assumptions or priorities or biases (regardless of his connections and relationships on the planet) - he has a much wider purview.

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I don't recall Capaldi, Smith or Tenant being obliged to explain and justify the creative intent beforehand.

As a human, woman, feminist and actor or whatever, Whittaker has a right to express her feeling about winning the role in all of those contexts.

To whinge about that as if it predetermines the creative intent or lack of it beforehand is completely hatstand.

I think you'll find that pretty much all actors assimilate what they brought to and from each of their previous roles with the role they are currently playing to varying degrees. Regardless of their gender. If you have a serious problem the possibility of previous female characters that a female actor has played having any influence in their creating the role of the doctor then you should have vehemently protested the possibility of a woman playing the part of the Doctor and stated that it has to be a man in the role because they've played men before.

This is just another half wristed way of arguing that the doctor is always played by and as a man so women are ill equipped.

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Ah so putting words in other people's mouths to fit your arguement is something you do to everyone. Phew, I thought it was just me. Poor snowflake can't handle other people opinions so calls them sexists. 🤡

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Which words were put in your mouth?

Poor broflake can't handle people declaring their status as a human, as a woman, as an actor, as a feminist, never mind someone else's opinion.

In your opinion, which I'm supposed to handle, she should be silent about who she is. So go take a f uck to yourself.

By the way. It's not my argument. You clearly are a reactionary f ckng broflake. I mean, you are taking Whittaker's statement about herself as a statement about the creative intent or lack of it. And you're complaining about words being put in our mouth. Just shut up ya stupid wanker.

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So when I said the new shiwrunner said it was always coming to be woman, that's was me taking her comments out of context? And you ask what words you put in my mouth? Lol 😂 poor sjw, gets his own way, is still a dick about it. Typical.

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Putting them in context isn't putting words in someone's mouth.

Someone expressing their feelings about being given an opportunity being twisted into a indication of lack of creative intent is a complete pile of pish.

Drink deep, dipshit

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So you just ignore anything that doesn't fit your bullshit? Lol 😂 perhaps you need to clam down a little bit there princess. No need to get your knickers in such a twist about other people opinions.

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No need to get your giblets in an uproar in the first place about people declaring what and who they are to provide context for their feelings.

I'm ignoring all your bullshit from now on and letting you get on with enjoying the taste of your own shit off someone else's dick.

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Bye Felicia

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I think Tennant, Smith and Capaldi were keen to convey that they thought they were lucky to get the role and hoped to continue the qualities and excitement of what came before:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2005/07_july/21/tennant.shtml
http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2009/01_january/03/who.shtml
http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2010/03_march/19/doctor_who3.shtml
http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/latestnews/2013/next-doctor

No mention of politics or "change for the sake of change" just the responsibility and interest in being an actor. This despite the obvious changes implied by a change of actor each time, and each of whom did not imply they needed to challenge social values or really had to "apologise" for being the newcomer to the role. Nor does Whittaker need to make a show of being different yet felt compelled to underline the difference and in a way which implies a political contest. I'm happy to accept an actor in the role if their a good actor. This is the real question facing the production of Doctor Who besides the writing and production values. I enjoyed the portrayal of female Time Lords in the classic series and I think Whittaker as an actor will in theory make the Doctor a good character.

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Who are you quoting with "change for the sake of change"? Yourself by the looks of it.

Who is apologizing? Nobody.

It's only being made a contest by you in your mind.

What Whittaker is acknowledging is the fact that in some people's eyes she WILL have to win their acceptance in the context of being a woman.

Jodie Whittaker is doing the exact same thing and expressing the exact same feelings of gratitude and excitement as her predecessors but also acknowledging and reassuring anyone who is anxious about the change in gender.

And there are people who social values will cause them to be anxious about this state of affairs. Whittaker doesn't need to keep her mouth shut about that context.

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Thought you were leaving, felicia? Still hanging around to attack other people hoping to get a bite? what a loser troll you are.

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I grew up on Classic Who and have become less and less interested since the revival with each successive regeneration. No big deal, not all shows will appeal for me across all seasons. I would like any recommendations for Jodie Whittaker's other work that might give me an idea of what made her considered for the casting. I saw all three seasons of "Broadchurch" and didn't find her character interesting or compelling at all. Has she been in anything else that might make her stand out?

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Perhaps the movie "Attack the Block" (2011) is the sole scifi action piece that helps put her in mind for Doctor Who?

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How much notable sci-fi action had Capaldi, Smith, Tenant, Eccleston, McCoy, Baker, Davison, Baker, Pertwee, Troughton and Hartnell done that helped put them in mind for Doctor Who?

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I would be interested in any recommendation regardless of the genre.

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It wasn't my intention to denigrate her by that statement. When I said "sole scifi action piece" I meant it was factually the only thing available for anyone to compare if they were deciding on how she would fit a scifi role or how she would play it. Maybe the fact that she did have that role was persuasive or helped recommend her because she had done some scifi/fantasy work in the past (especially a youthful style scifi program).

True enough past Doctor actors were not known for scifi but they were in a lot of cases known for comedy or humorous character parts before playing the Doctor, humour of course being one vital element of what makes the Doctor popular. Also, in a few cases they had played parts as other characters in Who before being chosen to do the Doctor role, ie. Colin Baker and Peter Capaldi. The critical element I think is whether the actor can convey a whimsical quaint personality for the character rather than a straight dramatic reading, yet make that character credible as a believable protagonist.

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I don't think you were trying to denigrate her. The implication though is that it is necessary to scrutinise her in a way that people did not feel the same need to when it was any of those previous actors announced.

She's an actor. She has 49 credited roles to her name. A quick browse of the nature of those films/shows can put anyone's mind at ease as quickly as they did when it was any prior Doctor's turn (considering that it was not implied that they might have been cast on the strength of one genre-similar film role at that time, IIRC)

Attack The Block is probably the role that most Dr Who fans are going to be aware of. But preamturely limiting ourselves to what Dr Who fans will likely be readily aware of is a mistake.

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I remember a small scramble among my friends in the States to re-watch Goblet of Fire when David Tennant was announced. He had certainly been in a range of other roles, but in 2005 it was a lot harder to get a hold of an individual TV episode or a series that wasn't available on DVD at that time. It was fun to try to learn more about an actor that way, although certainly each role is different.

I remember when Peter Capaldi was announced. I was living in the UK at that time, and I went over to a friend's house and asked if she was a fan. She peered at my iPad with his picture, made a hilarious little tsking noise, and muttered, "Dreadful little man." LOL She meant his actual character as Malcolm Tucker on "The Thick of It," but it still made me laugh. It's important of course to separate the character from the actor, but I'll never forget that tsking noise.

I'm sure I'll have time to check out more of Jodie Whittaker's other work before her Doctor premieres, but so far I haven't even caught up through Capaldi. I'll still look for any recommended performances (to add to Attack The Block) since I've already seen all of Broadchurch.

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That's one role for each of those two actors. But the speculation was that Attack Of The Block might be the "sole" reason that Whittaker was considered for the role.

"Perhaps the movie "Attack the Block" (2011) is the sole scifi action piece that helps put her in mind for Doctor Who?"

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I had thought (not being a mind reader) that since Chris Chibnall is now the exec. Producer/showrunner, and he had worked with Whittaker previously for multiple seasons on Broadchurch, that might be a big part of what led to the casting. But since I'd seen that, I was just curious if there were any other projects she had been in that would be interesting to watch--I'm not attached to any specific genre. Is there anything you've seen her in that you enjoyed? I really enjoy discovering new shows and films from what others recommend.

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She did a really good South African comedy called WHITE WEDDING (2009) which is definitely worth checking out. That's the only thing I've seen her in besides ATTACK THE BLOCK, which I love, because it's so funny.

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Thank you! I'll definitely add that to my list to check out. I appreciate the recommendation. :-)

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lasteven:

The hilarious and action-packed sci-fi movie Attack The Block, White Wedding, a funny, thoughtful South African comedy, and a spy series based on a true story called The Assets--she's good in all of them, and they're all good movies/a TV show. Oops, I already posted about this before---my bad,lol.

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