MovieChat Forums > Dallas Buyers Club (2013) Discussion > Most people didn't catch this in the beg...

Most people didn't catch this in the beginning but..


With all of the posts I've seen saying he couldn't get HIV it through heterosexual contact (though the stats are severely low for heteros)so he must have been bisexual and that the only drugs he used in the movie was coke.

Notice when the doctor first questioned him, the first thing he asked was did he use intravenous drugs and did he engage in homosexual activities. The only question Ron addressed was the homosexual question, he never answered the IV drugs question, add that to the flashback with the chick in the motel he was banging who had needle marks on her arm and there's your answer. Rons family even acknowledged that he did heroin. That's how he most likely got it. Through heroin use.

reply

Can you please cite your source in which his family acknowledged that he did heroin?

reply

He caught it off the chick who had needle marks in her arms. She had HIV and he had unprotected sex with her

reply

Yes, the movie showed a flashback in the library indicating where he probably got it - unprotected sex from a woman who had signs of extensive IV drug use. Threads like this are a sign that people can see a movie while noticing very little.

reply

There were several references to unprotected sex. One of them the flashback to the girl. It is open whether Ron thought he could have infected her or she infected him; whichever, he got mad at the thought.

reply

It's not open to interpretation. The scene was obvious: he was reading about how intravenous narcotics are a common cause of HIV in the library and then he recalled having sex with a heroin addict with needle marks all over her arms. That's when he realized the doctors were right about his condition and, soon after, stormed into the hospital demanding treatment.

The only way you could interpret it both ways is if you fail to pay attention to the entire context in which the flashback took place.

reply

Thank you for your most reasonable post! As someone who was personally familiar with the real Ron, situation, place, and time, it's been difficult for me to accept the writer's and director's portrayal of the movie version of him and of the situation which was really at hand during those desperate times, let alone to have read all of these ridiculous responses to such a vacuous endeavor.

reply

Truetexian---you knew the real Ron Woodruff? How did the writers/directors not portray him correctly? This was an amazing film and I was impressed to see someone like Ron doing what he could to help others given the time period and obvious bias to those with AIDS.

I am shocked that so many people missed that part in the film where they show this flashback---that in all likelihood, Mr Woodruff contracted AIDS via a woman who was an IV drug user or had used a dirty needle himself. The point isn't how he contracted AIDs, the point is he did something to help others and to stay alive.

reply

As I've stated in other posts, I was acquainted with the real Ron Woodroof (not Woodruff).
The list is too long to answer your question as worded. It's a far shorter list to cite the things that they got correct. Here goes:
1) He was a Texan
2) He contracted the AIDS virus
3) He was an electrician
4) He was a bit of a redneck
Nothing else about the screen version was accurate.

You're right, "the point" isn't how he contracted AIDS and that men can contract it from women.
The point, mine at least, has been about accuracy and truth within a movie marketed as inspired by a true story. DBC contains little truth, period. And chances are (with a statistical probability of 99.9%) Ron (the real one) contracted the virus from another man. I think it's unforgivable to have portrayed him as something he was not in order to avoid political incorrectness or to provide movie-goers a more palatable (heterosexual) hero.

The sad fact of the matter is, Ron himself (the real one) due to internalized homophobia would have probably approved of the movie's portrayal of him over a more accurate one.

reply

I am so sorry that this is the reality of Ron's story portrayal. I can't imagine how hard it would be to watch something that you know is fabricated.

I have a million questions, but also respect his privacy/not wishing to air anything that the family may not wish to. I wish people would stop fixating on how he contracted the virus. He had AIDs, it is fatal, and he obviously was quite ill to be given the diagnosis he was.

Did he not help others with this club though? I thought this movie was based on a book he (Ron) wrote.

As a writer myself, and dedicated/devoted to research, I can understand how upsetting it would be to see something that has won critical acclaim, but isn't true :(

I was rather shocked to find out that Rayon and Jennifer Garner's character were not real people/fabricated for the film. To me, that did affect my view of the film and it's authenticity/factual basis.

reply

No, Ron never wrote a book. The movie was based on an article which appeared in a supplement of The Dallas Morning News which was published in the Fall of '92. It was entitled "Buying Time" and was written by Bill Minutaglio. I saved the original article from the newspaper whenever it came out, but it's available for you to read online.

Borten, being intrigued by the article, claims to have interviewed Ron prior to his death. I'm not suggesting that he didn't, but there was an extremely narrow window of opportunity for him to have done so. If you do read the above mentioned story "Buying Time" you'll see how the movie "Dallas Buyers Club" doesn't stray too far from the events Minutaglio wrote about. You may also note that Minutaglio, although writing very colorfully concerning Ron's personality and demeanor, did himself question some of Ron's claims and has since said he didn't think Ron was a homophobe nor racist and has questioned his claims concerning his sexuality. I can't claim to know how Ron painted himself to Minutaglio, but I do know that he was no dummy, knew that he would probably soon be dead and retold his stories with his own legacy in mind.

No doubt Ron's efforts helped others. It's important though to keep in mind that not all that he did was of benefit and some quite detrimental to the struggle of that time and certainly place. The real club here in Dallas wasn't the first nor the most effective. But in each and every case, they were all founded by brave, scared-to-death, non-heterosexual men, those that loved them, and selfless, equally as brave health-care professionals.

In my opinion, the movie should have been marketed as having been "inspired by a newspaper article" rather than "inspired by true events".


reply

Thank you--I did find articles after your last post and am saddened that it appears that Ron's life was not depicted true to his character. I read many articles and one that astounded me in which someone was interviewing someone who had spoken to Ron, and he kept saying 'he didn't know' to questions about the DBC and if it was still in operation, to Ron's sexuality--I mean, hello?? I'm a journalist and articles I've written, I stay in touch with people--to be a good writer, you need to get close to your work/what you are writing about! I would have certainly found out if Ron's DBC had continued after his passing, and would have asked about his sexuality if for not to be accurate---it's up to Ron if he told the truth or not, and I could not blame him if he lied.

What also bothers me is that the film created characters, but left out his ex wife and daughter?! I mean, until I read those articles, I didn't even know he had a child or had been married!!! Sort of important to the character!

I understand why films have to alter slight things --to create drama for people to watch, but going into watching a film like this movie, I want to see what REALLY happened! You're saying that Ron's efforts had detrimental reactions to some? I would have been curious to know what those were.

It's frustrating to see the 'truth' about a person after the fact/film and people making assumptions about Ron based on this portrayal. :(

reply

It's not open to interpretation. The scene was obvious: he was reading about how intravenous narcotics are a common cause of HIV in the library and then he recalled having sex with a heroin addict with needle marks all over her arms. That's when he realized the doctors were right about his condition and, soon after, stormed into the hospital demanding treatment.

The only way you could interpret it both ways is if you fail to pay attention to the entire context in which the flashback took place.


Yeah it seems pretty clear this is how the character in the movie got HIV. It doesn't seem to be debatable. I can't tell if most people here are arguing about the movie character or the real life Woodroof. I don't know anything about the real life Woodroof so the topic of how he got infected could be debatable.


DISPLAY thy breasts, my Julia!

reply

Ron becoming indignant when asked about any prior homosexual relations reminded me of an old joke.

The Arkansas farm hand standing before the judge was asked if he understood the charge of bestiality, the worker replied, "I have never heard that word." The judged explained it meant having unlawful sex with animals, such as pigs, sheep or chickens. Livid, the accused screamed at the judge, "Chickens, what do you mean chickens!"



"He killed sixteen Czechoslovakians. Guy was an interior decorator."

reply

Or he had a hemophiliac Haitian dentist. Another (bad) old joke.

He was likely just much more angry about being considered gay than being thought to have shot up - true to the character he portrayed.

reply

No, Ron had already denied using drugs just a moment earlier. When Jennifer Garner told him that they had done some blood tests, he immediately said "I ain't no drug user," or something like that. When the doctor asked the question directly, he blustered through it without giving a direct answer, but the context of the scene made it seem as though he was ignoring the question because he felt he'd already addressed that.

reply

He said you wouldn't find any drugs in his system, and that he didn't used drugs.
I could tell you that I don't use drugs. Anybody can say they don't use drugs.
This means nothing. He could have shot up with dirty needles for a week when he was 18 yrs
old or something, and it is just now effecting him. Thats how it works. It is diff
with everybody.

reply

I think the movie addressed this pretty well given the fact that he's always shown entering the women from behind which suggests a flexibility of options. Getting it through unprotected anal sex is common enough whether with a man or woman though less likely when you're the active partner but still pretty probable.

Or it could be that the real Woodroof was indeed bisexual and could have gotten it from either gender and the movie deliberately chose to tell a nearly completely fictional story to make it salable and to satisfy the image of its very macho always womanizing (On screen) star and then slap "The based on a True Story" label on it to lend it credibility it didn't need. Because fiction can actually stand on its own legs if done well... but I digress.

It's clear that when it comes to gay stories, Hollywood's mainstream still has issues. This movie and A Beautiful Mind being the most obvious examples.
-------------------
Suspension of disbelief is a privilege, not a right. Abuse at your own Peril.

reply

The infection control officer at our hospital said it's virtuously impossible to get aids through sex with a woman, the "mode of transmission" isn't there.

==============================
He lifts me clear to the sky, you know he taught me to fly.

reply

I have understood this to be true, its hard to figure how a hetero male could contract this from a woman.

This leads to questions which nobody wants to ask or answer; like how did Magic Johnson contract HIV? As an elite athletic, hero and role model to men all across America, it was an off-limits question.

I agree with OP, Ron got HIV from sharing needles during intravenous drug use, this is more or less indicated by the film.

I'll take Punctuality

reply

You're assuming he's doing the women in the movie in traditional ways. But what if she bleeds on him during anal sex and she's untreated so she has millions of those things in her blood stream. You can't say it's impossible. Yes the intestines would do a better job to provide direct access to the blood stream for the infection. But active homosexual partners get it sometimes too. It's the method and not necessarily the gender.

-------------------
Suspension of disbelief is a privilege, not a right. Abuse at your own Peril.

reply

I don't know the specifics, nor do I care to speculate about them.

I thought it was more or less common knowledge that its close to impossible for a man to contract HIV through sex with a woman.

When a hetero male shows up HIV positive and claims to have contracted through sex with a woman, the doctors usually look for other causes, i.e., sex with men, IV drug use. I've been told this by a physician friend.


I'll take Punctuality

reply

Yeah yeah... and that's called HOMOPHOBIA. It is more common between men because men have anal sex with each other and that area is more susceptible. Women have anuses too and completely heterosexual men enjoy that as well. In fact many consider it the ultimate thing to do with a women. Get out of your rigid mindset and do some research.

The specifics matter. Two men who kiss and do external activities don't give each other HIV. Feel free not to speculate all you want but don't be misinformed and clueless.

And like someone else said: How about Africa. You think all the men that get it there are gay... All of them???
-------------------
Suspension of disbelief is a privilege, not a right. Abuse at your own Peril.

reply

That not right, kissing, a tear in the vagina,anus any small cuts or bodily fluid exchange.Its basically like saying you can't catch venereal diseases from women and that is nonsense.

reply

Its a shame, Afilmman, that you have to explain to other people what straight people experience with sex besides traditional intercourse. The best way for everyone to get the point about HIV transmission, if there is tearing and blood, then transmission is much more likely. Everyone else can use their imagination from that point.

reply

It's NOT "virtually impossible". If your infection control officer is saying this then they either don't know, don't care, are homophobic or are biased.

The chances of contracting the infection in this method are lower than other methods of transmission in developed countries, not "virtually impossible". I can't believe someone would tell you this. I guess the reason why HIV/AIDS is so prevalent in many African countries is that they must all be gay or shooting up, right? What a stupid thing for your infection control officer to say. Does this person want people to get infected?


The plural of mouse is mice. The plural of goose is geese. Why is the plural of moose not meese?

reply

What a stupid thing for your infection control officer to say. Does this person want people to get infected?


Thank you Gabe 1972. I agree with you 100%.

This film took "forever" to be made, but it needed to be made. It is just one more perspective of this disease during the 1981-1992 years, and those were the most scary years for this disease as "no one knew much", "select people got help", etc.

As the years go on, much information will get re-written and muted. Many who have died of HIV and/or AIDS are getting their death certificates re-done because it still carries a stigma. How does one get it? Through intravenous drug use and having unprotected sex with someone who has been infected. By someone who has been infected, an that includes males and females. Females in the sex trade back then who were also drug users an not diagnosed were at high risk of spreading the disease. I think the same hold true today, and I darn sure wold NOT trust a "doctor" telling people it is not. I'm hoping what the poster wrote was a misunderstanding of what the 'doctor' did relay. But make no mistake, there are thousands of people around the world still being diagnosed today, still passing away, still dealing in risky behaviors. Education is still the key to prevention.



Schoolhouse and Grammar Rock need to be shown 24/7.

reply

Education is definitely the key to prevention, and it's unfortunate that this person would be telling people that it's virtually impossible to get it with heterosexual sex. It's like said person is saying, "Go ahead and have all the hetero sex you want, as you aren't going to contract it anyway." Sheesh!

Physically, all it takes is a tear. A tear where the virus can enter the body. With this in mind, that's why homosexual activity makes people more susceptible, but that doesn't mean that heterosexual activity can't transmit it as well. And I'm not going to go into details, but if you think about the two actions, with regard to a tear, you will understand what I mean. Tears are more likely with the one compared to the other, and this is why the chances of contracting it are higher with the former compared to the latter. It's not that women's blood is any different than a man's blood, or the infection in a gay person is any more virulent and harsh than in a straight person, it's just simple friction physics.

You also would think that the prevalence of new HIV infections in developed countries would be very small, but people still do VERY risky things. It's sad. No one has to get HIV.

With regard to third world countries...that's a different story. I remember an incident, and this is not a joke in the least bit, where health workers were showing people, somewhere in Africa, how condoms work. They were using broom handles and such to demonstrate. They later found out that the people were putting the condoms on the broom handles and such before having sex, thinking it was some type of magical thing that would protect them. That's funny, but in reality, sad. Education in these types of places can be very difficult, as many of the people don't trust the health care workers and have indigenous beliefs.

Oh well, perhaps one day there will truly be a cure, but then again, perhaps not, as the pharma companies won't be able to make billions off of continued treatment meds if it is cured. Sad, but true.



The plural of mouse is mice. The plural of goose is geese. Why is the plural of moose not meese?

reply

How can something be sad and funny at the same time? I laughed and then I was horrified at my laughter. Then I felt guilty but then I started laughing again... and well...Rinse, Repeat.

Yes Education is more important than anything. It's like the last five minutes of Charlie Wilson's War.

But that story... just too much.

-------------------
Suspension of disbelief is a privilege, not a right. Abuse at your own Peril.

reply

Eh, don't feel guilty about laughing. On the surface it's hilarious, but deep down it's a very sad thing. But that doesn't mean laughter can't happen even in the most dire of situations. It's human to laugh. Now to laugh at their true misfortune in this terrible disease...that's another story, and I don't think anyone would laugh at that. But the initial thought of them putting them on brooms is pretty darn funny.

When my mother, who has been in the health care industry for years, told me about this and pointed me to the article, I thought she was joking. I laughed for quite some time. It's sometimes hard to remember that there are so many people that are very different from us and have very different beliefs, so when you hear about something like this it's comical, but when you really think about it, it's completely understandable that they would do this, and in a way, the health care workers probably should have contemplated something like this happening. Alas, but it gives us a moment of humor in a sad topic.



The plural of mouse is mice. The plural of goose is geese. Why is the plural of moose not meese?

reply

Not trying to refute what you are saying, education definitely is the key, but the reason that Africa s Aids epidemic is out of control is because anal sex is very common and is used as birth control. You are right about the lack of knowledge in regards to condoms, but a vast majority of men were using anal sex not to impregnate women. I got this from a registered nurse who volunteered in Africa for 4 tours.

Also, in this particular case, it is a movie and has been given the Hollywood treatment, but there is a lot of confusion and questions about Ron s sexuality. This is just one article from people who worked around him or had friendships with the real Ron.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/06/ron-woodroof-gay-dallas-buyers-club_n_4740155.html

Last but not least, there is no official source that will rule out heterosexual contraction of HIV, but I worked as a police officer in a secluded region in Northern Canada, and the chief of the health center sexual health and awareness unit there stated that a lot of STD s were out of control in the area but that in his 17 years working there, he had 14 cases of heterosexual transmission of HIV. Some were alleged rapes with tears during intercourse and the majority of the rest were eventually discovered to be homosexual anal sex where men were concealing because of possible violent backlash from the community.

I do believe it is possible to contract through heterosexual sex, but from a lot of sources out there, there has to be a perfect storm. Lesions on the penis from herpes or another STD, and lesions or a tear in the vaginal walls.

One way or another, there are some pretty bad std s out there, so protection is always a must.

Cops are looking for two guys, a bad ass and a retard...they got me, so grab your crayons and run

reply

With regard to anal sex being prevalent in Africa... this I had heard, but didn't take it seriously. After reading a bit more, I see that this may very well be true.

With this being said, it still doesn't mean that regular old straight vaginal sex isn't going to transmit the virus, and there also doesn't have to be a perfect storm.

The bottom line is this...straight vaginal intercourse can spread the infection. Is it less likely than gay sex? Yes. Is it less likely than straight anal sex? Yes. Having said this, people still do get infected in the regular, old way. Just because it's less likely, doesn't mean it's not going to happen.

Look at it this way. Perhaps gay sex is like a six shooter with three bullets and you are playing Russian Roulette. Straight anal sex is like the same with two bullets. Straight vaginal sex is like the same with one bullet. It's the way that's least likely, but one bullet can kill you just the same. Does anyone want to take that chance?

I understand what you are saying, and I understand what we are debating, but people have to be careful with what they say. Saying this might make some people think that it is so unlikely to be transmitted this way that they can just go an have all the straight, vaginal sex they want because they aren't going to get it anyway. It's the wrong message to send. Again, one bullet can kill you just the same.

Having unprotected sex with someone you don't know is a bad, bad, BAD thing to do, no matter what sort of sex you are having. You can't take it back. Once you are infected, that's it, you are infected. No one should ever, EVER take the chance just because it's less likely.

And no, I'm not trying to argue this with you. I'm not saying that you aren't right. I'm just scared that someone might get the wrong message. Any chance is too much of a chance.


The plural of mouse is mice. The plural of goose is geese. Why is the plural of moose not meese?

reply

I don't understand all of these ridiculous 'what ifs" and "maybes".

Female to male infection is very possible. Period. There doesn't need to be some other reason.

Those scenes in the library were put there in order to indicate that he acknowledged that encounter as one possible/likely source for his disease. Considering his high risk lifestyle he could have remembered a lot of similar situations in which he put himself at risk. But for the sake if the film we're shown one. It indicated that Ron did a lot of dirt. He really could've gotten it from anyone. It didn't have the be that woman on that night. But it might have been.

It just might be that a man fncked an HIV positive woman and caught it. Why is that SO hard to grasp?

<sarcasm>Oh no he couldn't have gotten it from just having vaginal sex from a woman! It's sooo unlikely. She must have shared a needle with a gay man and afterwards Ron must have done her in the butt while another gay man was doing him in the butt whilst simultaneously slamming H with a dirty needle that had randomly been found lying on the bathroom floor of a Wal-Mart.</sarcasm>

No. It doesn't need to be all that. All it takes is the wrong person under the wrong circumstances.

I don't think a cause was pinpointed and spoon-fed to us because it doesn't really matter. It doesn't change the outcome for Ron. Who he got it from doesn't make him any more or less HIV positive. It doesn't for real people who live with HIV.

reply

Exactly! Unfortunately, it sounds like some people have been given some very STUPID information about how it's spread and about how it's not spread. It can be spread by ANYONE who is infected, to ANYONE who isn't infected, no matter the gender. And I say can, not will, but why take the chance by doing something risky. An hour of fun for a possible, eventual death sentence. No thanks.

As for your last sentence, you are right in that a cause wasn't pinpointed, but I think Ron assumed that it was from having sex with the woman with tract marks that he was remembering while in the library. If he really caught it from her...who knows.

The sad fact is that a high number of people probably don't know for sure where they caught it from, but it was almost assuredly from some type of risky behavior.


The plural of mouse is mice. The plural of goose is geese. Why is the plural of moose not meese?

reply

Hey Gabe,

I completely understand what you are saying and did not mean in any way to encourage the notion that it was an impossibility. I guess it was a little irresponsible from my part to lead in that direction. I will end this thread with the last thread's end statement:

One way or another, there are some pretty bad std s out there, so protection is always a must.

Cops are looking for two guys, a bad ass and a retard...they got me, so grab your crayons and run

reply

One way or another, there are some pretty bad std s out there, so protection is always a must.


I completely agree with that statement, in every way, shape and form. As for our disagreeing on some things, it's okay that we disagreed. Any discussion about it is a good discussion, as it's something that doesn't happen enough. So many people would rather just sweep it under the rug and act like it's something that doesn't exist. Something that can't affect them.

With us disagreeing on some things, the only thing I can hope is that some people read what we were disagreeing on and read up on the subject to get more educated. Again, only good can happen from such things. Often times discussions are much more educational when people don't agree. So, it's a good thing.

Take care.


The plural of mouse is mice. The plural of goose is geese. Why is the plural of moose not meese?

reply

Gabe,

Very positive way of summing it up. If IMDB had a like button, I would have hit that.. :)

Cops are looking for two guys, a bad ass and a retard...they got me, so grab your crayons and run

reply

It's also common because the men go see prostitutes and don't use protection...and then bring it home to their wives. You know why they don't use protection? Because of Catholic missionaries who go there and preach that it's a a sin to use a condom!

reply

He was talking vaginal sex. Anal is dangerous, for either gender. It's not designed for penetration sex. The soft walls easily rupture, releasing blood.
I didn't think he was bi, or shooting. My money is on anal sex. (not that I'm buying...)

reply

That not right, kissing, a tear in the vagina,anus any small cuts or any bodily fluid exchange.Its basically like saying you can't catch venereal diseases from women and that is nonsense.

reply

Afilmman:

Yes, the real Woodruff was bisexual, and I think it's a shame that the film didn't portray him as that, because it would have made his character even more interesting, instead of the typical macho redneck stereotype, like you said. I'm guessing his family was left out of the film for legal reasons,or something like that.

reply

Jesus guys, he had unprotected sex with the girl who had track marks, it's not very complicated to figure out. Stop trying to figure parse out deep meaning in his answers in the doctor's interview of him, the movie showed us how he got it.

reply

One or more of his female sexual partners could of contracted it from some other guy they had been with. Ron might not have been gay or bi, but one of the other rodeo guys could of been on the down-low or any guy these women had been with. He even liked prostitutes, not just rodeo groupies. The risk is even higher because one of the women was an IV drug user. It just showed the ignorance of the time when he as only asked about being gay or using drugs. Back in the day it was assumed only gay men and addicts could get it. Plenty of straight people got it rather they did drugs or not. He was too promiscuous and reckless.

reply

My assumption comes from the scene in the library where he's doing his research. He reflects back to when he had sex with a girl with tracks on her, and it all connects. IV drug users are very, very susceptible to HIV - the girl likely had contracted it from using needles and he got it from her. That was my take.

We'll never really know, but a lot of people questioned the real Woodroof's sexuality. But we saw in the film how his friends turned on him and deemed him as homosexual since then it was so taboo, and how homophobic the people were. Now we're a lot more aware and educated on it.

reply