MovieChat Forums > The Girl Next Door (2008) Discussion > The movie makes the case why spanking IS...

The movie makes the case why spanking IS child abuse !


I always thought spanking (especially with any objects) was a form of physical and/or sexual abuse. Of course I am going to hear from "spare the rod, spoil the child" crowd that spanking is OK when it is deserved and is not abusive. But hitting anyone, especially a child is never deserved and all spanking are psychologically if not physically abusive! And often, spanking normalizes child abuse, as you can read in the abuser real testimony (from http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/young/likens/15.html) :

"BANISZEWSKI: She would not do anything I told her, no.
NEW: She was disobedient?
BANISZEWSKI: She would not mind me, no.
NEW: Did you whip her for that?
BANISZEWSKI: I believe I testified I whipped her. Or tried to one time.
NEW: How many times was she disobedient to you?
BANISZEWSKI: I told you she would not mind me at all.
NEW: How many times.
BANISZEWSKI: I think I answered your question. I said she would not mind at all.
NEW: Ever?
BANISZEWSKI: Not that I can recall.
"

Some would say spanking is OK because it is in accordance to American traditions, but how many would say genital mutilation is OK in Africa if it is in accordance to African traditions ?! I'd say to stop any forms of physical abuse of children at both home and school NOW! Else we create a loophole for child abusers to gratify their sexual desires at the expense of innocent children.

And how would you ever prosecute a closeted pedophile parent who self-gratifies himself by spanking his children "for cause" without living permanent marks, unless you outlaw any forms of child spankings for any cause ?! There are other much better options to discipline the children. It's time for US to join the civilized world and outlaw child spanking !!

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Thank you so much for this post. So few people see the truth behind this. I am so grateful, and hopefully this issue will become more apparent in this country immediately.

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wow that was a very intelligent and insightfull post...you don't see those as much anymore...i concur OP...

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You're a moron. Spanking a child does not automatically equal child abuse. Get your head out of the sand and checkout the real world.

Who says violence is not the answer?

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There is a huge difference between spanking your kid who is acting up and the abuse in this movie. A 10 year old could see the difference, yet you can’t? Talk about making the leap of desperate comparisons on your part.

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[deleted]

I think parents think parents are wrong in thinking spanking is a punishment on its own. It should be used sparingly and always with explanation. I think parents forget to explain to children WHY they should or shouldn't do whatever behavior. i think the younger a child is, the more acceptable physical punishment (in consideration of an adults strength) bc the threat of pain can be a good deterrant from possible harmful behaviors. (for ex, smacking a hand of a child reaching for the stove top)

I think there is definitely a difference between punishment and abuse. and it a tricky area that you cannot make laws for bc different people were raised different ways and can raise their children the way that they want. (i was spanked a handful of times as a child, and was not abused in any way. each time it was desereved and explained to me what i had done wrong and why.)

"Choose NOT to be a d!ck." - Silas Botwin

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"Some would say spanking is OK because it is in accordance to American traditions, but how many would say genital mutilation is OK in Africa if it is in accordance to African traditions ?!"

Give a rope to someone with an agenda and eventually they will "hang themselves"
Comparing spanking to female genital mutilation, are you serious? You call spanking "hitting", well two can play that game, spanking is merely a couple of swats across the backside. Look if you do not want to spank your kids, then do not (depending on the age of the kid I find time outs and groundings to be a joke). "Yes thats right Johnny, you will now spend one whole week confined to your room, you will have access to your computer and internet, but I'm taking away your I-Pod and X-Box". Wow, how do these parents find the intestinal fortitude to be so strong LOL.

Punching or kicking your kids, or spanking them so hard and repetitously, that their butt is red, is obviously BAD. Spanking comes down to intent of the parent, ie discipline with love, and letting your child know why they are being disciplined. IMO spanking should also be confined to a certain age group, done sparingly and moderately (1-3 light to moderate swats), and always done without malous intent. Jeez, most kids hurt themsleves worse and numerous times every week just by falling down, or knocking into something. Though that was before the internet and video games, when kids actually played outside getting exercise, instead of spending 6-10 hours each day on the computer or texting.

Children are far more resilient than the bleeding hearts and social workers, would have us think, but then again with all the molly coddly going on in todays society, perhaps that should be changed to "used to be resilient"

If you find spanking reprehensible then DO NOT SPANK YOUR KIDS, but to interfere in others parents rights, or insinuate that there is some correlation between spanking and the custom of female genital mutilation, is patently absurd.

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It's not just about the physical pain child abuse such as spankings, cause. It's about the psychological and emotional pain also. I was spanked as a child and sometimes hit with ladles and belts and while it certainly did hurt, it didn't cause any long lasting marks. HOWEVER it's the emotional pain and the fear I remember the most.

Yes, kids fall and hit themselves all the time. but if you don't understand the difference in accidentally hitting yourself and having someone ON PURPOSE inflicting pain on you, you are straight up stupid. Just like it is a more traumatic experience to be mugged than to lose your wallet by accident. ESPECIALLY if the person mugging you is someone is supposed to love you and take care of you, like your parents!

As for parents' rights, I don't think it is the right of any parent to inflict physical or emotional pain on their child. Adults are protected by laws, if anyone so much as slaps you, you can charge them with assault. Why should children not have the same rights? More importantly why should a parent's 'right' to lash out on their kids with violence override children's right to protection from physical abuse?

Spanking or hitting children is nothing but lazy parenting.

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there is absolutely no psychological damage from spanking. thats a bold faced lie created by the idiots. there is a *beep* difference between being spanked and getting the *beep* beat out of you

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It's not just about the physical pain child abuse such as spankings, cause. It's about the psychological and emotional pain also. I was spanked as a child and sometimes hit with ladles and belts and while it certainly did hurt, it didn't cause any long lasting marks. HOWEVER it's the emotional pain and the fear I remember the most.


Way to move the goalposts, we are talking about spanking (with bare hand), not hitting kids with objects such as belts and ladles. Sounds like you just had crappy parents. I grew up in the era of spanking, as were all my friends, and I do not know a SINGLE one of us that were "traumatized" (not even remotely), but then again we were not raised to be wussbags by well meaning but bad parents such as your self.


Yes, kids fall and hit themselves all the time. but if you don't understand the difference in accidentally hitting yourself and having someone ON PURPOSE inflicting pain on you, you are straight up stupid. Just like it is a more traumatic experience to be mugged than to lose your wallet by accident. ESPECIALLY if the person mugging you is someone is supposed to love you and take care of you, like your parents! [/quote]

Terrible analogy, if I PURPOSELY take away my kids x-box is that also cruel. Intent is the key, being mugged is obviously traumatic due to intent of the one doing the "taking".

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The world is beecoming such a dumb place its unreal. Me and my whole generation, and the generation before and the generation before them were all spanked/smacked as children when we were bad. I had recieved a smacked ass many times when I did wrong as a kid. Even used to get a twisted finger lol.

Did we grow up bad? Would I consider myself abused as a child???

Are you frickin kidding me??





"What your mother and I must know, is.."

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Let's apply your thinking about spanking to sexual molestation. Most sexually molested (e.g. by priests) kids may not grow up "bad", and some of them may not even think of themselves as abused. The fact that some victims of child molestation didn't feel abused, make child molestation ok?

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[deleted]

This is completely different, nothing to do with it.

Spanking is a form of punishment, a deterrant, its to stop you doin things you are not allowed to do. Its how we learn to do what we are told as a child.

How do you suggest 'naughty' kids get punished??

Im guessing you have no kids of your own.


But this sort of discussion is endless, whatever one person believes as acceptable another person will disagree.

Some may say having your baby circumcised is an extreme case of child abuse! Wheres the childs rights there?? Is that not mutilation?



"What your mother and I must know, is.."

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Some people may rape kids, primarily, as a punishment (and other people spank kids not for punishment, but to pleasure themselves), does this make rape OK? At then end of the day, it's not the intent what matters, it's the action itself!

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Your comparing spanking to rape?? Please.



"What your mother and I must know, is.."

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@Cinematic -- you're comparing spanking a child for being naughty to rape!? Seriously!?

That's like telling a kid who pushed another kid on the playground that what they did was assault/battery/murder.

This is the problem with the world today. OVERREACTION.

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The thing is spanking is a very popular form of sexual fetishism. And while I don't think there is anything wrong when two adults engaging in consenting spanking and domestic discipline. Applying it to non-consenting children or animals (i.e. dog) should be considered a form of sexual, if not physical, abuse (since the chances are that the perpetrator derives sexual gratification out of it).

So, back to your analogy, if a kid kicks or spanks another on the playground, that's one thing. If adult does that is should be a crime. Like it is already, except when the parent or guardian does it.

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[deleted]

You're a *beep* moron.

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Were we to outlaw everything that has become a sexual fetish nothing would be allowed any more -- even having pets.

Can I trade in the children for more cash?

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My biggest concern is when someones' sexual fetish is satisfied by infliction of physical pain unto a helpless human creature by masquerading it as "discipline" (and you can always find a transgression if you look hard enough). If let's say a parent got his kicks from massaging her baby, or her dog for that matter, that may appear disturbing, but I doubt it would have resulted into lasting psychological impact unto the child or moreover pet.

But when you hit an innocent creature to derive pleasure, you're crossing the line! And even if a small minority of parents do that, there are thousands of them in US alone! Given to the extent we go to weed out pedophiles and child kidnappers from our community (the other day my phone was screaming with AMBER alert), shouldn't all reasonable parents agree to stop spanking their children on the account of those perverts who use it under the guise of parental rights? This way they won't be able to disguise, this way they will be apprehended and arrested the moment they touch the child!

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While I'm not arguing for or against spanking as a form of discipline for children, since I am able to see both sides of the argument, I must disagree with the sexual intent here. Most parents get zero gratification from spanking their children. Those that may derive any pleasure from the act are much fewer in number, making them the exception, not the rule.

Let's put it this way: some people walk into Home Depot and see a wonderful weapon store with supplies to fulfill all their kidnapping needs. Most people, however, see tools to work on their homes and yards. The majority, in this case, are using things how they are meant to be used and should not be told they can no longer purchase tools due to the twisted mind of the minority.

I can empathize with the "this could do psychological harm to certain children, especially depending on how understanding they are of why they are receiving discipline in this manner" argument. I can even get behind the "this leaves too much room for interpretation of what is 'normal' and what is 'abuse'".

But outlawing things on the basis that a small minority of sadists or psychologically damaged people may be misusing them is not the way to go.

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No, spanking a child does not equal child abuse.

Child abuse is when an object is used or if the child has bruises, welts or other lasting marks. Attempting to say a swat on the butt of a child is the same as the disgusting torture in this movie, or what has happened to actual victims of child abuse cheapens what abuse really is.

While you complain that the "spare the rod, spoil the child crowd" will be out in full force against you for your post, what do you expect? A very good argument can be made that the removal of spanking in American/European society has led to societal disorder.

Speak to any teacher in an inner-city school about the attitudes, language, and discipline of children and it's obvious we have a problem in this country. Look at the flash-mobs going on. Look at children who literally run rough shod over their parents knowing if Mommy was even to swat their rear ends, Mommy would go to jail. When that type of control is given to a child, not mature enough or experienced enough to handle it, they will abuse the situation, as is happening now. Parents have either been convinced spanking their child will turn their little darlings into Jeffrey Dahmers (not true) or they fear the government will be at their door taking their kids away if they ever do spank, they won't do it. End result? Children who have absolutely nothing to fear from acting out anyway they so choose.

Does that mean spanking should make a huge come back? Maybe. I can remember being in elementary school when corporal punishment was still legal, an no it was not that long ago. Children were much more respectful, more disciplined and rarely acted up in class. Now that my own child is attending school, having sat in on her classes, I have watched the same children act out, disrupting the class and therefore preventing them from learning. The teacher nor the principal can really do anything to gain control back in the class.

You can argue all you want that spanking is abuse. I say its more abusive for society to be forced to deal with children who have absolutely no fear or respect for authority. Until the anti-spanking crowd figures out a way to instill discipline and respect in a child they should open their eyes and take a look around. Has removing spanking helped or hurt?

There are now Psychologists, Psychiatrists and other researchers who are breaking from the mold and looking into the affects and effects of removing spanking as a means to discipline a child. What they are finding is what many of us have known, spanking does, when used and done correctly, does not harm a child psychologically or make them violent as adults. Children who are spanked tend to do better in school, are less likely to quit school, turn to crime, gangs, drugs or alcohol. Do some research into the issue, you'll be very surprised what research, not someones feelings is showing.

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I just finished watching Once Upon the Time in America, and like many of the films of that, or ealier period, it shows that hoodlums existed and thrived in a culture and time when spanking at school, or home, was as common as ever.

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It's not allowed in Norway to in any way of form for any offence, hit a child. In 2010 it also became illegal to administer "light slaps", because "lights slaps" is a diffuse term and subjective, and parents took advantage of that loophole until 2010 when that too was made illegal. Why can't you raise a child without hitting it, if people in my country and a lot of other coutries can, else they will be fined or serve jailtime for their crime?

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Agreed. And some of the best, most well behaved, intelligent, respectful children I know have never been spanked. The way to discipline was talking to them from a very early age and explaining to them, as well as showing them other consequences - but above all, explaining WHY they shouldn't do something and WHY they should behave; be rewarded and praised for it. A lot of people don't have the intellect and patience to do anything but raise a hand. Sad.

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It's the same in Germany, and I'm shocked to find in this thread that apparently in the US it is allowed to spank a child and considered a normal means of parenting, and not abuse. It IS harmful, any form of violence can cause trauma and make the child sick for a lifetime!!! Even emotional abuse can make a child so desperate that it commits suicide or develops eating disorders or self-mutilation. You can't say no abuse takes place as long as there are no bruises! Abuse can be so subtle that it can't be seen but it is still devastating for the victim! I find it horrible to think anyone may think spanking does no harm, those people must have no empathy for a powerless child that gets humiliated and can't imagine how this harms a soul irriversibly. Parents have no right to hit their children or spank them or treat them without respect and love, no matter how often it happens in reality, it still is wrong!

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you are actually full of it. its been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt by science that there is no psychological harm from being spanked

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[deleted]

if you were confused as a child from being spanked, then you were not very bright.


i was spanked as a child, i was never once confused about it. i knew i did something wrong and was getting punished for it. i never once got psychological damage from it. if you have then your parent didn't spank you but beat you

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I think it depends on what the child, years later and all grown up, thinks. I was spanked as a child, did it scar me? No. I can hardly remember being spanked. Do I feel I was abused? No. I guess it all depends on who you ask, but only the children who were spanked should be allowed to make that judgment call.

Peace is not the absence of affliction, but the presence of God. ~Author Unknown

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This argument is invalid, as many victims of abuse play down the harm done to them, even in cases of major sexual abuse by a family member. There is the phenomenom of "selective amnesia" which results in people having no memory of an abuse in their childhood, and they would swear their parents are wonderful. In cases of "only" spanking, this will not be the case, but the mechanisms are always the same. Children of alcoholics will do anything to protect and excuse their parents, even as grownups. It's the way we are made up by nature, to blind out the horrible things parents do to us and forbit us to judge them, because we have the inherent and instictive need to love our parents, even if they abuse us.

There sure are emotionally stable and resilient people who have been spanked and didn't sustain a deeper trauma. But in other cases, just spanking and some yelling at a child and otherwise neglecting it a little can be enough to break it for lifetime. There are enough studies that proof the harms physical and emotional and narcissistic and even religious abuse can do to a child.

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science has proven that spanking doesn't cause psychological damage

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