Is this a comedy/parody?
The trailer seemed humorous, but I am hearing it is dramatic.
shareThere is humour to it. Mainly black comedy. Particularly Karl Urban's character. Not really a drama as such.
shareThanks
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MovieChat Forums > The Boys (2019) Discussion > Is this a comedy/parody?
Less than in the comic. And they cut out about 99.999% of sex.
shareWas there rape in the first ep? I saw the warning but I don't recall seeing a rape. Are they classifying Deep blackmailing Starlight into a BJ as rape?
shareYes. That was it.
My only complaint about the show is that this particular scene was done much better in the comics. However, making Deep responsible (and not Black Noir and... was it Homelander? or A-Train?) serves the whole plot of the series right.
In the comic books Homelander welcomes her into the team and says: "There's just one last test" and then A-Train and... I think Black Noir enter. When she freaks out they just say - well, if you don't want to the door is open. And she blows all 3 of them.
In the series seems like she only BJs Deep. Still rape, of course... Unless you're Bill Clinton.
In the comics most supes behave like rabbits on crack and there's sex every other page. Not to mention that every time Burcher meets with the CIA lady they hate-fuck.
How would you classify it?
shareWell, certainly not rape. They didn't even show anything, so I am not sure why a warning was needed.
The warning was given because a character on the show was raped. Just because they didn't show her being raped doesn't mean it wasn't a part of the show. It's like any other content warning-- it's there to let audiences know what mature content to expect, so they can decide whether or not they want to watch and/or let children watch.
shareI'm in two minds about this. Obviously there was no rape in the typical sense. No violent assault without consent etc depicted or even implied. Ultimately, Starlight made the decision to do it. It's like if a guy was offered $1M cash to suck a random person's dick. Now that guy most likely doesn't want a dick in their mouth but they probably want the $1M. At the end of the day, it's their decision whether to do it or not.
Now I see coercion and abuse of authority is included in the definition of rape which is a bit odd as I feel it waters down the act of rape. Like all these actors that had whatever they had happen to them at the hands of Weinstein. Were they raped or did they just make unpleasant decisions in the hopes of furthering their careers? I don't mean to play that situation down as obviously it's abhorrent and perhaps some were raped but I don't think that applies to the majority. Of course there are situations where abuse of authority go hand in hand with violent rape but this isn't that situation.
The comics were written in the pre-METOO age when this kind of things was a lot more common. Besides it was 3 members of the team including Homelander who pressured her into oral sex.
In the series she could have turned around and gone straight to Homelander or her agent, she could have resisted or threatened Deep - anything. I think it was a little out of character for Starlight to fold right away.
Of course, there was no blackmailing (as Deep didn't have any dirt on Starlight) or rape for that matter. Starlight was given a choice: Stay with the Seven and thus please her mother, her fans, have more money, do more good, etc. Or get back to Ohio and to relative obscurity. So performing fellatio on Deep was her free choice driven by some very pragmatic reasons. And that's not rape but prostitutioning. Starlight was prostitutioning herself for the 'greater good'.
However, some feminists might argue that the very institute of prostitution was established by the 'white patriarchy' in order to exploit and diminish women and thus equals rape. So the producers of the show just tried to be on a safe side by labeling 'rape' something that technically wasn't it.
You sound as crazy as the feminists. Prostitution is when a person decides to sell sex for money, or some other gain. Rape is when you are forced to have sex. The Deep threatened Starlight, saying if she didn't perform a sex act he would harm her. Had he threatened to shoot her, or to kill someone she cared about, rather than threatened to get her fired, and possibly arrested, would it make a difference? She did not want to have sex, but was forced to do so by a threat. That's rape, not prostitution.
I know nothing about you, but pretend your wife/daughter/girlfriend/mother came to you and said "today at work I made an error counting some cash, and a coworker said if I didn't give him a blowjob he'd make it look like I stole the money, and he'd tell our boss, and I'd get fired and maybe arrested," would you say "oh honey, you little prostitute you!" Or would you call the police and say "my daughter, etc. was raped?"
Adding legal trouble doesn't parallel the scene in question, so your analogy doesn't work. She traded oral sex for the betterment of her life. That's prostitution. She didn't have to, and nothing in her life would have changed if she didn't. She wanted something, and traded sex for it. That's pretty clearly a form of prostitution.
shareWhen The Deep dropped his pants, she responded by flaring up her powers and shorting out the monitors in the room. He used that against her, saying that he'd say she attacked him. But even without that, forcing someone to have sex under threat of harm is rape, not prostitution.
shareHe didn't threaten to physically harm her, and until she brought violence up instead of just leaving,he wouldn't have done anything.He literally said she could just not get the job if she didn't want to blow him. She could have just walked away and no harm done.
shareMy point above is that there does not need to be a threat of physical harm for it to be rape. If you force, coerce, threaten, or otherwise manipulate another person into an unwanted sex act, that's rape. She did not want to have sex with him. He threatened to have her fired, and to report her for attacking him, if she didn't do it. By no conceivable stretch of the definition is that prostitution.
Another hypothetical-- do you think if you told a coworker that you'd get her fired if she didn't have sex with you, and she had sex because of your threat, that if she later called the police, when they showed up-- would they arrest you for soliciting a prostitute, or for rape?
I did a bit of quick research to make sure I wasn't wrong and talking out my ass, because it's been know to happen. Per the Federal guidelines, this exact scenario falls under sexual harassment.
shareForcing someone to perform oral sex on you under threat of harm is not rape? I don't think you read those guidelines correctly. If you put your penis into another person, and that person has told you "no, i do not want your penis in me," it's rape.
shareSurely it's different for different scenarios.
Have sex with me or I'll stab you. Rape.
Have sex with me or you don't get a promotion. Not rape.
So let's think this through. If I visit one of my single mom friends, one of the really MILF-y ones, and tell her "hey, blow me right now or I'll go upstairs and kill your kid," and she decides to do it, and the cops bust in right as I'm jizzing, are they going to arrest her for prostitution? Or are they going to arrest me for rape?
Maybe instead I visit one of my single cat lady friends and threaten her pet. Am I suddenly not raping because my threat was less severe?
How about this scenario, one that is almost the same as in the show. I corner a hot co-worker alone in a conference room and tell her "hey, blow me or I burn down your house. I have it all set to burn now, and you'll likely be suspected of burning it down yourself to get the insurance money." When the cops bust in on us that time, is she still on her way to central booking?
The bottom line is that in the show, and all the above scenarios, the girl is not willingly giving head to get something she wants. She's being threatened with the loss of something she already has. Starlight was made a member of the team, and The Deep told her "either blow me or I'll get you kicked off the team, and I'll charge you with attacking me." He raped her, just like I hypothetically raped my MILF-y friend, my cat lady friend, and my hot co-worker in this thread.
That's not what happened in the series so your analogy isn't correct. But that's understandable because 'you're just hearing what you want to at this point'.
Here's what happens:
You don't visit one of your mom's friends. On the contrary - a girl your parents don't know yet comes to your house. You drop your pants and ask her for fellatio. She's enraged and breaks your flatscreen. You threaten her with calling the cops. Or - she can smoke your pipe and get in your family business. It's her choice.
So... she can wait for the cops and see how the investigation turns out (and taken people knew she was invited to your house and also that you're unharmed there's little doubt about the result). Or she can enter your family business by making a different free choice.
And also there is this minor detail: You're working out, so your biceps are impressive. But she's got a black belt in karate.
Yours is a very inaccurate interpretation of the show. The most significant of the many inaccuracies are that it isn't my family business, I have no authority over her, and she is already hired. In your version it seems like I give her an option to suck me off and gain something, or don't and leave. In the show the choice was suck me off or lose the dream job you've already earned, be publicly humiliated, and potentially be in legal trouble for something you didn't do.
shareThat's right.
In the show, the choice was to suck Deep off and gain something (the fame, the money, her mother's respect, etc.) or don't and leave. Without being publicly humiliated (because Vought tries to avoid public scandals), without being in legal trouble (because Vought avoids public scandals and formal investigations), without being stopped physically (because she is able to protect herself). And maybe even without losing the dream job (because it's just Deep's word against hers). She'd made her choice freely.
And later in the show she only confirms her calculating nature during the supes for Jesus rally.
You get it.
shareOk, you're just hearing what you want to at this point rather than admit you're mistaken,since that's not at all what I said. Feel free to fight a straw man with someone else.
shareStraw man? In what way am I mistaken? It's very clear to me that what happened to the character in the show was rape, both in the common sense definition and the legal definition. You seem to think that she broke the law and prostituted herself, which is absurd, and now you're throwing the term "straw man" into the discussion for no apparent reason.
If a man threatens a woman with some sort of negative action unless she performs a sex act on him, and she does so out of fear that he will carry through on his threat, that's rape. Do we agree on this point?
The Deep threatened to lie to Starlight's superiors about an assault by her that never took place, and to use his influence with them to get her fired, and told her that she'd be publicly humiliated by her firing, unless she performed a sex act on her. She did so out of fear that he would carry through on his threat. She was not prostituting herself. She was raped.
Erm, no.
Prostitution is when you offer your genitalia for sale, not when you are blackmailed for it.
No, when your boss tells you "either suck me either you're unemployed" is not prostitution but black mail. And sexual abuse.
Taken the mouth or anus are no genitalia - blowjobs or anal sex is not prostitution.
It's not about the boss. The 'boss' was sexually harassing her, she, however, could walk away freely but decided not to.
A-train was sexually harassing Starlight, no one is arguing with that.
Starlight was prostituitioning herself.
What could happen if Deep reported Starlight? An internal investigation held by Vought. No cops involved because of the fear of bad publicity. Starlight gets kicked out of the Seven. End of story.
Or - let's assume the worst: the cops come. So... what's the deal? No one is harmed, it's just his words against hers. Starlight gets kicked out of the Seven. End of story.
Also, you seem to forget that Starlight was fighting crime for years. She is a fighter and most likely could kick Deep's ass. What are his superpowers anyway? Breathing underwater I guess.
As to your analogy - I've already written that it's not correct: No one made any errors, no money was lost or stolen. So technically it should be: Today was my first day at work and a coworker said if I didn't give him a blowjob he'd make it look like I stole the money, and he'd tell our boss, and I'd get fired and maybe arrested. So I could easily quit the job and call the cops on him or try to prove my innocence as an upstanding girl but I decided not to because of the good salary. So I sucked him off.
Good luck with living with such a wife.
You do that in the real world, youll be charged with sexual assault and jailed.
"Sexual coercion is unwanted sexual activity that happens when you are pressured, tricked, threatened, or forced in a nonphysical way."
So while no, what happened isnt technically rape, its sexual assault. These terms are used interchangeably by the lay person and should only really ever be clarified for legal reasons. A "boss" can not demand sex. He or she can not attach sex to employment. Doing so is against the law and will see you in jail for a long time.
I dont know if youre trolling or just stupid. Either one is dangerous is you are ever around other people.
I agreed with you all the way up until you claim those terms are used interchangeably(at least I don't know anyone that uses them interchangeably).
Sexual assault is a broader definition that includes but is not limited to rape. Rape pretty much suggests that the person did not have the ability to walk away freely, essentially lacking consent. You cannot be both sexually coerced and raped, because the two are designed to explain two very different scenarios surrounded around the same type of event. Now you can make the argument that what started out as sexual coercion can escalate to rape, but once it does the event no longer fits the definition of sexual coercion.
Both are horrible and deserve serious respect when discussing, but they are different by both legal and standard definitions.
I thought it would be a parody, but I think it stands more on its own as a story about how cynical and self-serving people can be, especially when they get a shot at power, but even when they don't have much. (Butcher and Starlight's mother aren't very powerful on their own but just as morally bankrupt as Stillwell and Homelander.)
shareIndeed they shifted the concept a little in the series and it's more about power abuse here.
In the comics there're over 200000 known supes so it actually makes sense for governments to have people keeping them in line.
Thanks for clarifying that. The TV show left me with the impression that they would only number in the hundreds. The comics sound a little more like X-Men, actually, if they focus on the social divisions caused by large numbers of Supes/mutants and normals. But I haven't read the comics, so that's just a wild guess.
shareThere about 200 supes in the show. But that's probably not counting the bad guys.
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