MovieChat Forums > Napoleon (2023) Discussion > Why does Hollywood always cast too old?

Why does Hollywood always cast too old?


If the movie was about Napoleon's rise to power, well, he became "First Consul" at 30 and was crowned emperor at 35. Napoleon did is rising in his 20s and early 30s, and Joaquin Phoenix is now 48. By the time Napoleon was 48, he'd been defeated for the second time and was in exile on St. Helena, and only had a couple of years to live.

Hollywood always does this with reality-based films, casts an actor considerably older than the real person. At least, it does with male roles.

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Maybe Ridley wasn't as clever in using wikipedia as you are... I dunno, I think criticizing actors real age is one of the easiest forms of movie criticism...

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And one of the lamest. You get $130mil for an historical drama only b/c a talented, Oscar winning, bankable lead, is attached. And that's why the original title, "Kitbag" was scrapped for "Napoleon". You're trying to draw an audience. The average viewer isn't groaning over something they don't know, or care little about. They only have a vague idea that Napoleon was kind of a big deal, and on the short side -- but the appeal is battle sequences and watching Phoenix in another big Ridley Scott joint.

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You're right, of course, and I wouldn't have mentioned it if Hollywood hadn't been doing the same damn thing consistently for the last fucking hundred years!

It's starting to annoy me.

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[deleted]

The average viewer isn't groaning over something they don't know, or care little about. They only have a vague idea that Napoleon was kind of a big deal

Well, Americans might. Lol

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Of course, every European knows exactly what age Napoleon was at every important event in his career.

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Napoleon was under such stress and had gone through so much - war is very taxing on the body - that he seemed older than his actual age.

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Well, this is how Napoleon looked at 35, at least according to a court portrait painter. So it's undoubtedly extremely flattering, but I don't think the artist started with someone who looked as haggard as Phoenix does today.

https://images.fineartamerica.com/images/artworkimages/mediumlarge/3/napoleon-bonaparte-emperor-of-the-french-in-coronation-regalia-francois-gerard.jpg

And here's Napoleon age 30-34, when he was First Consul and ruler of France, and had largely finished rising to power.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/3c/73/32/3c7332096a0e2d93e8d4312693786683.jpg

https://th.bing.com/th/id/R.16ef10def527247652fddca4c857ed5d?rik=LHmjWliVwPZwPQ&pid=ImgRaw&r=0

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my thoughs as watching the trailer

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Yeah I thought this when I first heard about the film as well. Napoleon was 52 when I died I think, which is not much older than Phoenix is right now.

The movie looks great though so its not really a big deal to me.

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"Napoleon was 52 when I died I think"

I see dead people?

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Lol 😂 whoops

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Life was rough back then. Bad nutrition, primitive medicine, unsanitary conditions, war, strife…. 30 year olds probably looked 50

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Great actors are usually older.

I'll take Joaquin Phoenix over Timothé Chalamet as Napoléon even if it sacrifices a bit of realism.

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I'd second that. Some people take to acting quickly and they're great even at a young age, but even they tend to improve as they go along. If you're looking for a lead to handle the depth necessary for a complex character (like Napoleon) it would be harder to find a young actor with the prowess to bring it to life.

Adding on to that, box office draw is a factor. If a studio is going to green-light an epic biopic that costs hundreds of millions of dollars, they'd rather that the director not grab, "Promising, young, 'The Next Brando'" They want a guy like Joaquin Phoenix, who is established and still hot off of his Joker success. While younger actors can have some draw, an older actor is really going to sell it.

Finally, you've touched on "image fit" - for lack of a better term - where the actor has to be perceivable as the character, particularly by the target audience. The audience for Napoleon are older, film-savvy types, and there's a bias towards seasoned veteran actors. They don't like - as you say - Timothee Chalamet. They want Beatles, not Oasis or K-Pop.

I think that the first factor is unavoidable. Skill is skill, and it will improve if actors keep challenging themselves over the years.

I do think it's a pity that box office draw is reliant on audiences being unwilling to try something new or unique, and I really think it's a shame that we allow our personal biases to keep us from respecting certain artistic choices. I was one of the only people who trusted Nolan had found the right Joker in Heath Ledger, most dismissed him as "pretty boy," but I found myself guilty of this, too. I ignored or avoided Robert Pattinson until I saw The Lighthouse and realised he was awesome. He had that Twilight stink on him. Was that wise of me? Nope. Twilight might suck, but that's not on Pattinson.

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At the end of the day I think older talented film makers want to work with older talented actors (and their friends in many cases) and simply don't care how accurate the historical aspect of the film is.

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Yep, when I heard Joaquin being cast as Napoleon, I though the movie will use CGI de-aging, I'm shock while watching the trailer that is not the case.

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