MovieChat Forums > Black Widow (2021) Discussion > I’ve read that it’s an anti-man wokefest

I’ve read that it’s an anti-man wokefest


For anyone who has seen it, is it?

Disappointing if true.

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I dont think it was woke but I also dont think it was very good. It's a female spy program duh. Im actually disappointed they didn't focus enough on the female spy program stuff and I feel they took the cheap option by making them ******* SPOILER******* brainwashed. In earlier BW setups it would seem the Red Room was going to be a much darker place. This felt like a poor man's Hydra with women.

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I feel like this post contains a significant spoiler.

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True I edited it, maybe only us saw it!

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LOL well I wish I hadn't seen it before I saw the movie. Think I'll skip the film now.

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No don't skip it over that, in the context of the movie it is very small. Watch it and maybe you will enjoy it. I did and was only slightly disappointed in the movie but for popcorn entertainment its ok. 5/10

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5/10 sounds like a poor score. A movie has to be pretty bad for me to give it a score that low.

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It's almost a 6/10 but that is what I would give if this movie was slightly more memorable.

So my rating system has 5 as OK,
6 is good.

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This felt like a poor man's Hydra with women

Good one lol

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Not even remotely the case. There wasn't anything at all anti-male or woke about the film.

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What are some films that you would regard as "woke"?

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The ones I avoid! Which may be unfair on my part, but I see a lot of new films in which I have no interest because they look like thinly-veiled political statements masquerading as entertainment. Nothing in Black Widow struck me as even remotely message-y or preachy or at all woke. I never felt the film was trying to make some larger point about gender or politics. It was like Marvel's version of an old-school James Bond film.

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People actually watched this?

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You kind of have to if you want to continue watch Marvel movies, it is introduction of a new character.

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actually 3, since Alexi and melina are still around, as well as all of the black widows which will undoubtablly be another Dora Milaje in the MCU.

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Probably not.

Melina has to die. Sorry, just want to say that. She has knowledge of something too powerful to let her live. She knows how to make mind control drugs, that is kind of too much power for the Marvel universe, so she will have to disappear or die, otherwise things might not make sense.

Alexi is an superhero in comic books, so it is possible, but he is portraited in this movie as kind of an idiot, so not sure how much potential Marvel sees in him. He might appear as part of Yelena story, but maybe not, Marvel is not really a family drama.

The same goes for Task master, a fantastic character of fascinating capabilities, full of story potentials, but I think that ends here. This movie basically ruined it.

There is no need for that many black widows. There is no reason, no cause, no common purpose for them to be together. Unless SHIELD recruited them. But in the end Yelena seems to work alone, and her boss (most likely from SHIELD) seems to have no alternatives. But I am sure they will pop up as needed.

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If it hasn't been a problem for Tony Stark to have the Iron Man suit for the last 10 years without anyone else having access to it, then I don't see why it would be a problem for Melina to have mind control technology without anyone else having it.

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Tony Stark is protected, by his wealth, by US government, by avengers, by SHIELD and by his high profile. US government wants his technology but they can't just take it by force. Also his technology is nice to have but not game changing, SHIELD has so many things far more dangerous and powerful.

Melina is not similarly protected. She is nobody, there are plenty of excuses to capture her and force her to give up the secret and kill her afterwards. And there are plenty of people and organizations if can't have her secret would rather her be dead. She will be fair game to every intelligence or secret organization exists in Marvel universe.

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Hank Pym is the only person to have the Pym Particle for decades.

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Again, that is not game changing. Can you control the world with it? It is more trade secret. Even time travel has very limited application.

And Pym article is not infinite, there are only limited quantity.

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An actual quote by Hank Pym in the Ant-man movie

"This is not some cute technology like the Iron man suit. This could change the texture of reality"

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To scientists, not governments or some intelligence organizations.

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Sorry but this doesn't even make sense. If it changes the fabric of reality, that clearly affects everyone. And it clearly does. Yellow Jacket's plan was to create an army of them. It wasn't going to sit in anyone's basement. And mind control is more game changing than time travel? I think we are getting a bit silly here.

Not to mention the quantum energy, being able to become giant as well as small, etc.

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Think about it. What can you do with time travel, unless you can travel to future to get new technologies, which clearly could not have happened if neither Tony Stark nor Hank Pym have done it.

Weapon technology? Sure, it might benefit the country, but really? You think bureaucrats really care about that? You think they lay awake at night think about the best way to serve their country? Then you are quite naive. Maybe some defence companies will be interested, but since Pym article is limited whatever weapon can't be produced in large scale, so how profitable can it be? Maybe they will put a price on it but that is it.

But mind control, who wouldn't want to have it? Who would trust others to have it? If you have it what do you think will happen to you?

But what if you have some profound scientific discovery with potential? Then how many do you think will care?

I don't think you really understand this.

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K this is dumb.

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Don't be a sore loser.

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No it is really too dumb. You are asking me to argue for the case that if time travel technology existed. that governments or the military would be interested in acquiring it.

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We are talking about super power and Asgardian, what is not silly?

Then again if you are not interested then don't participate this kind of discussions.

And mocking others who talk about it? That is just rude and low character.

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You could go back in time and steal the mind control technology. Are we done?

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And when it exists now, when you don't have to time travel to get it.

Now who is stupid?

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If you had the time travel technology, you could have gone to the future to get it before it existed.

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Like I said before it does not seem to be possible, otherwise Tony Stark would have done it to get more knowledge and technology for that matter.

Also logically it should not be possible. Otherwise it means future is fixed.

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Also if seeing into future were possible Thanos would have seen after he destroyed infinity stones he would be killed, using time stone. Then maybe he just won't destroy the infinity stones.

So even infinity stones can't see into future.

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"Yellow Jacket's plan was to create an army of them. "

Exactly this. Darren Cross was planning to sell them to the highest bidder and had organizations like Ten Rings and Hydra interested. There was even a presentation detailing the world-changing capabilities of the yellow jacket suits in the movie.

Plus, at the end of Black Widow Natasha gets her hands on the cure and made reference to producing more of it. They can literally immunize against the mind-control, making it useless.

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Not if you have your hands on both the drug and the cure, and make sure nobody else has them. You can immunize yourself and control others.

The key is to have both.

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It is like Gravitonium. If SHIELD has it, it will be stored in a underground bunker and that is about it.

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Jesus Murphy. People actually still want to watch Marvel movies? Lol

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To be honest, as someone who really liked the MCU, after BW and Loki not anymore. It's clear that with every new addition we'll get more and more power-women and less interesting stories.

The MCU went downhill after they gave Stark his magical nanotech suit.

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The MCU is dead. Who cares any more.

They've used up all the best characters. Now they're just left with the B-listers and, to make matters worse, the films are getting increasingly political.

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The big bad is a guy, sooooo......

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Oh it's worse than that... you also have the weak pussy women that are so willing to forgive baddies that it makes you want to vomit. SPOILER... In one scene you've got Natasha saving the life of the killing machine that is hell bent on her demise where she risks her own life to rescue the baddie... Sorry but while it was a convenient excuse to have yet another rather boring fight sequence it simply doesn't make sense. Black Widow is supposed to be a train assassin yet in this movie she is running around spending more time trying to save people that really only deserves the death penalty that it just becomes a joke.

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You should stop reading alt-right mra incels, then.

It's the least socially aware Marvel movie since The Incredible Hulk.

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I’m seeing it tomorrow with sons and I sure hope it doesn’t make them feel like second class citizens. They already get that enough from the matriarchy that runs the school. They love the black panther and captain america characters which are both very positive portrayals of heroic males

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Sounds like it's time to lead a parental revolt against your school's leadership.

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Already underway. You and I think a lot alike

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It seems that parents across the country, thankfully, are starting to push back on the bullshit. That movement needs to continue and grow bigger.

There's a lot of bullshit We The People need to be pushing back on right now.

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Spoilers ******. I did see the movie last night. I give it a B. As you can imagine with a movie about female assassins assembled by a male villain, there were some metaphorical parts about women being controlled by “the patriarchy” or whatever. When the girls were set free by black widow she kept saying a line about how they were now able to go “make [their] own choices.” This seemed a weird way of highlighting the principal benefit of their new freedom and sounded like the writers were channeling the pro choice movement (especially since they girls had just been released from control of the repulsive male villain). There were some other symbolic references to female reproductive agency. There was a lengthy exchange about how the girls had their reproductive organs surgically removed; all had to get hysterectomies / oophorectomies. It was a very strange and graphic back-and-forth about the details of that surgery but while the characters were joking around about it which seemed completely off key. Otherwise, I didn’t see obvious misandry. There were positive and negative portrayals of men and women. The women were mostly fighting other women so, you didn’t have too much of the trope where some petite woman overpowers the 200 lbs adult man. I’ve seen people say the father figure was presented as a moron but, I didn’t get that whatsoever. He was humorous relief and presented as a strong male who primarily endeavored to protect his “wife” and “daughters” and encourage them to be a family. There was another resourceful masculine character who repeatedly helped the main two female characters. Frankly, what I noticed more than anything was that Scarlett Johansson was upstaged by Florence Pugh who played her sister. Pugh was absolutely fantastic and really entertaining in the movie. Honestly, she tore up every scene she was in.

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Didn't get any anti-man vibes off this. The handful of men in this movie aren't particularly useful. But this is very much a female movie. Lady heroes, lady villains, lady henchman. It's kind of just a chick version of an action film. And none of it was done in an annoying, "see, girls can be tough too" way. It's almost all girl on girl violence. There's no 90 pound girls kicking body building thugs through brick walls and that kind of nonsense.

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That doesn't sound bad then.

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Yeah, what the other guy said. It's not an anti-man wokefest, unless someone concludes that the fact that entire widow program is based on the abduction of young girls as being inherently too woke.

Everything stems naturally from the narrative, and if there's anything unnatural, it's what the other guy said, it's just like, a "chick action movie" in that sense.

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I just added almost identical thoughts above as I hadn’t read your comments. I agree with your take so apologies if I stole your thunder. I also thought the movie had some comical tongue-and-cheek dialogue where the superhero women teased each other about some of their traditional feminine characteristics

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> There's no 90 pound girls kicking body building thugs through brick walls and that kind of nonsense.

Except that Yelena vs security guy scene. Granted, she didn't kick him through a wall, but still, she took him out way too easy, as if it's nothing.

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