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conanurdevilish's Replies
So you're literally talking out of your ass now, and can't even back up any of your points with anything besides opinions.
>When something is stronger, it's stronger.
So if you had a army, it would be the easiest army to beat because you have a one track mind and you'll pick roided out big dudes over actually skilled fighters. Got it.
I can beat a stronger opponent in a freakin video game, real life would be even more hilarious. Also here are the last real life videos I've seen of random men vs women/big vs small stuff, and they don't quite match up with your claim.
woman vs molestor in elevator https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpBdGy5BIHU
here's one where a dude who looks over 300lbs attempts to go all UFC on a small girl and still fails to KO her. Could only imagine the outcome if she actually knew how to fight https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIbbI0I3WQ4
man vs woman again https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCMSsXn6Yr8
big dude vs small dude https://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshht0ien68A8z46NoFU
another big dude vs small dude video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxDKRkwyKM0
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If I was a scientist, I would think both Michelle and Mackenzie would be a great candidates. Mackenzie seems pretty versatile and adaptable, while Michelle I know has the physical abilities and skills and still seems capable of delivering. Arnold would be out of the question due to his ongoing health issues on top of his lack of combat capabilties. Jackie I would like to think is still a good candidate, but I would question how much he banged up his body over the years. Sam seems somewhat in the middle.
> Your points are agreeable and possible, but there's no way a realistic scientist would pick a scrawny woman over a buffed up man for creating a super soldier.
Why wouldn't a realistic scientist pick someone like Mackenzie Davis over her male costars for such a treatment? The terminator parts would be doing most of the heavy lifting, and as mention in my other posts, look up the whole calathenics vs weight lifting debate. Even bringing up actors, there's surprises in who is better than who. For example in just Terminator alone big bad Arnold himself admits he rarely does his own stunts, has a long line of health issues including multiple heart surgeries and if you seen Arnold's WWE appearances, it evident he's not a skilled fighter. The original terminator/human hybrid Sam Worthington admits he's not as tough as he looks, and although he likes to do as much of his own stunts as possible, he says he has his limits to what he's capable of pulling off. Mackenzie Davis so far from what I can find had the most gruelling training out of any Terminator actor and for sure had to learn the most skills, and from what I can tell, she nailed it. A lot of the behind scenes footage is actually her doing all the stuff her character does onscreen. It's even more impressive when you consider Mackenzie didn't even have any prior action roles before Terminator. People like Jackie Chan and Jet Li are small dudes, but I doubt anyone is going to deny they aren't physically capable. Speaking of Jackie, the dude admits his costar Michelle Yeoh is his equal physically and some might argue Michelle does crazier things than Jackie. Fast forward today, and I think Michelle actually outlasted Jackie because I can't recall the last film where Jackie had any extensive fight scenes that didn't involve CGI while Michelle did a Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon sequel recently and looks to still be doing her own stunts.
>How the hell a weaker and smaller person would be easiern than somebody with more room and power to accept the modifications?
First should bring up bigger doesn't always equal stronger and better. Most obvious example are when comparing humans to animals. Many animals are smaller than humans, but a lot of them are more powerful than humans in the physical sense. Even among humans, look up the calathenics vs weight lifting debate. This one is interesting where it involves men and women debating on both sides which is better as it's essentially dancers and martial artists vs body builders. Body builders may have bigger muscles than the dancer/martial artists, but it's amazing how much categories the dancer/martial artist are able to match or surpass the body builder in and there is a science to this. Best known example of calathenics is Bruce Lee. There's actually something extremely ironic too about bigger muscles being conceived as stronger.
>Check out Young Frankenstein, that's more realistic than your description: bigger is easier when operating on a person.
I'll have to check out that movie, but isn't that a comedy? Not sure how much real world implications it has. I can flip that argument on it's head and say a slimmer person you don't have to cut through as much flesh to get to the bone and nervous system which looks to be where the implants start from. Not to mention all the blood and IV required during surgery.
>with all the soldiers around NOBODY had a better body than her? Really? What are using to fight robots? Harsh language?
Guns? Explosives? Motor vehicles? That's what it looks like they were all using in the future war scenes in these movies and throughout Salvation. You don't need big muscles to operate those things. Plus you got to be an idiot if you think having big muscles allows you to fight evenly with a terminator. Those things are going to murder a human in meelee combat without any difficulty regardless how big the human is.
>it's not a factory trying to get the lowest price possible here. It's doctors and surgeons finding the most effective person to upgrade.
Except the doctors and surgeons needs to get the parts from somewhere which I'm guessing is whatever they can scavenge from Legion. So don't see why they would be detracted from using less parts on a smaller individual if it gets the same results.
As for most effective person to upgrade? Well one I think the people needs to volunteer first. So that would reduce the number of candidates. Secondly have you seen the future war scene? Grace was able to save the commander and still fight with several stab wounds in her while the rest of her team was dying. That looks like a good person to upgrade. Also seen Cameron's other works? Previous movie he wrote was Alita Battle Angel which had a small female robot tearing up and beating down robots up to 3 times her size in meelee combat in a civilian body no less because she knew a very effective fighting style. Flashback all the way to 1986 for Aliens 2 and we have Ripley and Vasquez doing better against the Aliens than most of their male counterparts. Vasquez even use a gun and harness bigger than what the male soldiers except Drake used just because she can and it didn't hinder her in the slightest. Even Sarah Connor in this movie beat up 3 cops/agents with her hands literally tied behind her back and in T2 needed 4 guards to restrain her and she wasn't even fully focus for that scene either. If I had those 5 women in my army, I think they would all be great candidates to upgrade and Grace would be the biggest of the 5 ironically.
So you're ignoring the other 3 meds she mentioned her, huh? As for athletes and their use of insulin.
"Insulin is a hormone made by the pancreas that allows your body to use sugar (glucose) from carbohydrates in the food that you eat for energy or to store glucose for future use. <b>Insulin helps keeps your blood sugar level from getting too high (hyperglycemia)</b> or too low (hypoglycemia)."
https://www.endocrineweb.com/conditions/type-1-diabetes/what-insulin
Insulin is a stabilizer. It works for athletes because when they drain their blood sugar/glucose supply, it pumps more back into their system.
Considering Grace a) was trying to get meds that all suppressed her body functions b) her body was literally overheating and she first tried to find water to cool it down, c) as she herself said "my metabolism was tune for short, intense burst" which I'm sure doesn't mean suck up her stamina reserves, and d) she was hyperventilating which usually means cardiac arrest of some sort which is due to the heart pumping too much, e) she has a power core for crying out loud, and I doubt that thing is in her for decorations, it's pretty obvious she needed the insulin for the reason diabetics need it where it wasn't just her blood sugar, but likely a bunch of her organs that was being overwhelmed which usually causes organ failure.
>In any case, she was winded after her first fight with the Terminator, and that's a stamina issue, by definition.
When was she winded? The only time I recall her slowing down prior to her body crashing was when she was launched out of the truck and temporarily out of it after hitting the pavement. Outside those examples, she pretty much didn't stop.
Anyways it's pretty late so I'll have to respond to the rest another day.
>Yes, lack of stamina was the problem. The cause of her getting tired out is irrelevant; increased stamina would give extra time before getting tired out regardless of the cause.
So you clearly did not watch the movie. Okay here, I'll cite exactly what Grace said she needed and what each meds do:
"I need any anticonvulsant" - these are drugs that are stabilizers that helps with calming down epileptic seizures.
"sodium polystyrene sulfonate" - these are drugs used to stablize increased potassium level by helping removing them from the body.
"insulin" - this is a drug that helps prevents blood sugar levels from getting too high.
"benzodiazepine" - basically a form of tranquilizers.
Gee notice a pattern here with all these drugs? They're all polar opposite to a caffeine/adrenaline shot which is what would be needed to help get the stamina up. If it was a stamina issue, she wouldn't be needing meds that would drain her stamina even more.
Speaking from 1st hand experience as someone diagnosed with a chronic illness back in 2011 with a bad history of taking the wrong drugs afterwards, I know exactly what was going on with Grace during those moments. There's been a number of times I started to suffer from organ failure for any number of reasons. Nothing wrong with my stamina as that was fine, but the pain my body was going through made it hard to even stand up, walk or at times even sit up properly because it will aggravate the problem and cause even worse issues. A number of times I blacking out while standing. So I know there was no problem with my stamina during those moments and everything to do with my body and mind pain threshold being pushed to the limit.
I'll answer the rest later.
Okay before I respond, how do you make posts longer? For some reason my posts are cut shorter than yours when trying to respond.
>This is the second time you've failed to comprehend the "all else being equal" stipulation.
There is no "all else being equal" stipulation here. That's what you're failing to acknowledge and grasp. As mentioned earlier, your logic literally relies on there being a infinite amount of resources where everything is built the same. That's the only time your "all else being equal" stipulation can work, and clearly that's not the case in either real life or in fiction. Terminator fiction included.
>HKs and Terminators are two completely different types of machines designed for two different applications, i.e., apples and oranges. That's not even close to an "all else being equal" comparison.
HKs and Terminators are machines designed with one ultimate goal to kill humans. That's what Skynet designed them all to do in the end. No getting around that. Terminators perform better because Skynet was able to compartmentalize the best of its resources into a small infiltrator unit where there's little room for flaws. Smaller size = less chances for errors to occur and easier to put quality over quantity.
>It makes it more believable because males are more effective combat soldiers, as well as more likely to be combat soldiers in the first place,
Males are more likely to be combat soldiers because if anything, that just shows how stupid men can be. Men in general being more aggressive of the two genders are more likely to do things like engage in fist fights, drive recklessly, commit crimes, etc for some cheap thrill which is what draws them to being soldiers. Most rational people would know how idiotic it is to be a soldier in today's world especially since that not only means you're likely to get yourself killed than other jobs, but requires you to kill people who never did anything bad to you on top of all the horrible living conditions. A smart person would know that's not a job you should get into unless the threat is literally at your doorstep.
You literally wrote two short paragraphs that ultimately says big muscles is somehow a indicator how well terminator parts can work in a human, and I was able to punch a crap ton of holes in it with both facts from the movie and facts from real life.
You're the complete idiot who's stubborn.
>I wrote off trying to explain anything to him because it is futile, some people are just stupid and too ignorant to be taught anything.
You can't even get this right. You literally wrote all of ONE response to me and it's the one I mentioned above paragraph. Unless of course Heisenberg is a alt account of your's, in which case, nice try pretending to be multiple people trying to claim your right.
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That's the reason Sarah and Dani threw ice on Grace after Dani noticed she was burning up. It wasn't because she was drained, it was the reverse. Her terminator parts pushed her body too hard and it was overwhelming and overheating her, so they needed some way to stabilize and cool down her body. For real world reference, it's the same as when male athletes take steroids and other enhancing drugs, are able to have a lot of energy one moment then the next moment just collapse on the floor. It has less to do with their bodies being drained and everything to do with their organs being overwhelmed and putting them in some sort of organ failure state. In a augment's case, would probably be like putting a engine in a person, then pushing the engine to the max which causes the engine to overheat in their body and they're doing everything to cool it down.
>Those statistics are irrelevant in this context, i.e., natural lifespan and the risk of heart failure aren't things worth considering for healthy young adults of either sex.
Yes they're very relevant. Considering those terminator implants flat out effects the body's metabolism and other internal parts, people with higher chance of heart failure and short life expectancy because they're organs are more likely to fail are far more likely to die from those terminator implants.
>No, it doesn't; not even remotely. See above.
Yes it does. Not only do you seem to have a terrible notion that people in the future have a infinite amount of high grade terminator parts, but a terrible idea what the terminator parts actually do to the human body and why Grace was going into organ failure in the movie and it wasn't because she was running out of energy.
>Look at record times for men vs. women in any given marathon. For example, the record men's time in the Boston Marathon is about 15 minutes faster than the record women's time.
That's more speed than stamina though. Men would have the advantages in foot races because in general they're taller with longer legs, and anyone knows longer legs = more distance covered in one stride. I'm also certain it's also because women's hips are built bigger with slightly less mobility because they need the space for pregnancy. Even on just speed races, men don't always beat woman in other fields. For example I remember back in the Bejing olympics people were accusing a Chinese female swimmer on being on some performance enhancing drug (even though she looked normal) because she not only beat all the other women's time, she beat all the men's time too. I also remember Ripley's believe it or not had a segment on a female rock climber who regularly competed with men and would beat them so bad it usually takes her male competitors twice the amount of time to reach the top after she already done so.
>Did you even watch the movie? A significant plot point was the augmented chick's stamina problem. After her first fight with the Terminator she was out of breath and after the next fight she was so exhausted that she could barely stand up, and soon passed out in the drug store. Her stamina problem showed up several times throughout the movie.
Yes multiple times. Did you watch the movie? Her stamina wasn't the problem. It was her metabolism and the effects their were causing her organs that was the problem. The terminator parts were directly connected to her motor functions and overly exerting caused her body to overheat and overwhelm her organs. All those drugs she was requesting a the pharmacy? Those weren't energizing drugs, they were stabilizing drugs.
>If the writers were trying to make sense, they would know that the characters would want to send the strongest and most durable protector that they could, which demands the biggest possible Terminator parts, which demands a large male host to accommodate them.
No, you're deliberately trying to ignore facts both in the fiction and real life and trying to skewer it based off a small amount of preconceived notions. First you're trying to ignore that being an augment is a risk. Assuming the person survives all those implants across their body, according to Grace herself, when fighting a terminator, you either kill it in the first few minutes or you die. Again even Skynet don't have a infinite amount of resources let alone the humans, so I'm guessing meds would be in short quantities which is why death is frequent for human augments. Not exactly something most sane people wanting to live are going to want to rush into.
Secondly as I told someone else, if I was the human resistance and I had a choice between making someone the size of Natalia Reyes a augment vs someone the size of Arnold a augment, I'll go with Natalia. Why? Because that's like asking to use up 5 lbs of bullet proof metal vs 15 lbs of bullet proof metal. 5 lbs of high grade hydraulics and artificial muscles vs 15 lbs of high grade hydraulics and artificial muscles, etc. I can definitely get a lot more mileage from the Natalia Reyes augment than the Arnold one. Or for a real world comparison, that's like asking mechanics and people who knows how to modify vehicles that they're given a amount of auto parts and either use them for a SUV or a motorcycle to win a street race. I know there's going to be a lot of people who are going to say to go with the motorcycle.
Okay I'm just going to point out the Terminator movies all the way back to T1 been spitting in the face of your logic here. Skynet has these giant machines called ground and air HK units that are like the size of a building while also having human size machines called terminators. From your own logic, the HKs should perform better but which units do are see and are told performs better? That's right the much smaller terminator unit in pretty much all fields. Even on just a basic durability level we know the terminators can withstand explosions and energy blasts better than HKs. Why? Because bigger size = more used up resources. Give the same amount of quality parts a terminator would have to a HK and that would just mean a small part of the HK is performing well and can take damage as good as a terminator. The rest of it can still shoot down like every other HK.
You logic literally only works under the notion there's an infinite amount of resources and everything is the same grade. Considering that's not even the case for Skynet, what makes you think the human resistance has this luxury?
>By the way, your desktop computer was stronger. Drop the laptop on the desktop computer tower, then drop the tower on the laptop; see which one sustains more damage.
That's only because desktops are made out of metal and has a durable shell while laptops are built out of lighter weight carbons and polymers so they'll be easier to carry around. If I had a computer manufacturing factory and used the outer metal/shell for a laptop, not only will that be a durable laptop, but I'll likely be able to make two durable laptops for the price of one desktop.
EDIT: Actually to expand further on this terrible analogy, that would be like saying a 50 ton builder performs better than a 3 ton truck because one crushes the other one better when being dropped from the sky. However when you actually put both to work on the field, the guy with the bolder is going to wish he had a truck to perform his day to day duties.
Skynet itself shows good examples of my point. In the future Skynet has massive HK air machines and HK ground units that are like the size of a building. Yet which Skynet units do we see and are told do better in combat? It's the smaller human size terminators that gets the job done. On even just a durability level they're able to withstand explosions and energy blasts a lot better than their HK counterparts without even going into the other categories. Why? Because Skynet can put quality armour and parts in a Terminator and have it be more effective than it can a HK. Put the same amount armour and parts in a HK and that means only a small part of it will be effective and be protected. The huge majority of it you can still shoot up and take it down.
In order to make a HK to the quality of a terminator, it will probably have to sacrifice like 50 terminators for one HK, and that would be a dumb decision for a intelligent machine to do.
<blockquote>Nobody would engineer a cyborg with the intent of making it the strongest possible by picking a female like Mackenzie Davis instead of choosing a male with a Schwarzy type body.</blockquote>
Except there is no humans in the future that looks like Schwarzenegger. That's all the evil machines pretending to look human who looks like that in the future. The humans in the future in both Dark Fate's future and the original Terminator future were all roughly the same size as Mackenzie Davis with just a slightly wider skeletal structure. Heck Kyle Reese is the same size as Grace with just a slightly wider skeletal structure. Remember the human resistance don't exactly have a stockpiles of food to choose from.
As for your vehicle analogy, with the angle you're using, a better analogy would be using a mustang vs high speed motorcycle to trick out for a street race. If I was the future resistance and I was asked to use up terminator/machine parts for a human augment and I have a choice between someone of Schwarzenegger's size or someone of Natalia Reyes's size, I'll actually choose Natalia. Why? Because that's like asking using 5 lbs of bullet proof material vs 15 lbs of bullet proof material. Using 5 lbs of artificial muscles and hydraulics vs 15 lbs of them, etc. I'll be able to get alot more mileage out of the Natalia size person without having to use up anywhere as much parts.
There's probably not enough women insane enough to even want to join the military at the moment. There's a big difference between a mass army trying to murder you at your home and the media/government trying to trick you to go overseas to attack and murder people who never did anything to you.
<blockquote>That's absurd. The importance of John Connor was that he was critical in defeating an AI that was trying to take over the world. The name of the AI is irrelevant.</blockquote>
Nope his destiny was specifically tied to Skynet and by T3 and onwards it was now he was destined to be murdered by Skynet. So clearly his importance was diminishing as the franchise went on.
<blockquote>What year? There's a big age difference between someone born in 1980 and someone born in 1989. Even if you were born in 1980, you were only 4 when The Terminator was released.</blockquote>
Well the Terminator craze really didn't hit until the 90s since T1 was still a fairly low budget movie. T2 was when all the merchandising really popped onto the TV screens and store shelves.
<blockquote>That's all irrelevant though, because people's favorite character has nothing to do with their objective importance to the story.</blockquote>
Yes it does. If the audience finds you the least interesting character and couldn't care less about you, then you are clearly not the heart of the franchise as none of the audience can connect with them and the franchise as a whole suffers.
<blockquote>He was only a mere plot device in T1. In T2, T3, TS, and TG he was a main character.</blockquote>
He was still a plot device in the first 2 movies or more specifically as TV tropes call it, a human McGuffin. T3, TS and TG they basically rewrote his importance so he became less of a plot device and more of a character humanity didn't even really need anymore.
Well first flaw is that in the bigger is better logic doesn't work for machines especially fictional machines. My desktop computer from 10 yrs ago was massively bigger than the current laptop I'm using, but want to take a guess which one performs massively better than the other? This comes down to what sort of machine parts does the resistance have and who's willing to remove a bunch of their internal parts for Terminator part which I'm sure just the surgery alone is a massive risk.
Secondly assuming the stamina thing is true which I'm going to have to double check because I recall hearing a number of stamina based contests have various women as the champ. But assuming true, what does stamina have to do with the topic? The powercell and terminator parts are going to have that covered.
Finally as I mentioned to that other user, there's a big difference between sports analogies and medical health. Because statistics and medical records show men have a far greater chance of dying from heart failure and men in general have short life spans than women. So that puts a real big hole in your logic. There's many things big muscles don't save you from, internal pain and organ failure being among that list which machine implants reflect much better.