>We are far beyond that point. Public schools have pride weeks, there's tax payer funded Pride parades, I'm forced to participate in religious ceremonies of LGBT people by baking wedding cakes, et cetera.
I don't really think pride weeks are necessary in schools. What pride parades are funded by the taxpayer?
I do think if you are serving the public, then you can't just refuse service to someone. People are also "forced" to participate in interracial marriage ceremonies by baking cakes for them if requested too. What's the difference?
>The same can't be said with Christianity nor do Christians want to force people to participate at the level LGBTers want to indulge in their religion.
This is nonsense. Plenty of Republican politicians and activists want to force school kids to attend christian events and impose mandatory prayer.
>No, gay people also have a higher suicide rate. Not as high as T, but far, far higher than straight people. This isn't a coincidence.
And why, precisely, do you think this is?
>Cuz they tell me about it over and over about how they love sex and drugs. They're far more promiscuous and open about sex.
And how do you know EVERY gay person is promiscuous and takes drugs all the time?
>Erm, lower standard of living, declining happiness, rampant drug use, less family cohesion, less culture, a New Dark Ages where we can't even agree what a woman is....the answers are all around you.
Not sure how lower standards of living have much to do with LGBT either way. Many European countries have liberal laws regarding drug use, and have less issues on this than the USA. Also lower rates of alcohol abuse, teen pregnancy etc. And many of these European countries are less religious. Why is this?
How is there "less culture"? In comparison to what period?
>A common claim LGBT cult members like to make is that everyone in the past was unhappy because all they wanted to do was have butt sex but the church wouldn't let them so anyone that said that they were happy in the past is lying. In reality, things were much better in the past....in fact, if you're over 30, you can remember those days as they weren't that long ago.
Should LGBT people have the right, the legal right, to pursue relationships with someone of the same sex?
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Heretic (304)
a month ago
>I don't really think pride weeks are necessary in schools. What pride parades are funded by the taxpayer?
Well, it's happening. And all of them use a lot of city resources in organizing the parades. The cities also pay for the events, claiming it increases tourism.
>I do think if you are serving the public, then you can't just refuse service to someone.
So if I go to a gay baker and ask for a cake that says "Sodomy is a sin and those who practice it will burn in Hell while I laugh", should he be forced to make it?
> This is nonsense. Plenty of Republican politicians and activists want to force school kids to attend christian events and impose mandatory prayer.
Source? It sounds like you pulled it out of your ass.
>And why, precisely, do you think this is? (That gay people kill themselves)
High drug use and an empty life since they have no family. Obviously. We see similar rates (though not as high) in the incel community.
> And how do you know EVERY gay person is promiscuous and takes drugs all the time?
Good thing I never claimed this. I said that gay people are much, much more promiscuous and more likely to drugs than average. This is true.
>Many European countries have liberal laws regarding drug use, and have less issues on this than the USA. Also lower rates of alcohol abuse, teen pregnancy etc. And many of these European countries are less religious. Why is this?
Until recently, Europe was much more socially cohesive. This is no longer the case and we are seeing things change in Europe. You might want to look a little bit closer at the demographics of just who is abusing drugs and getting preggers as teens in the USA.
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Skavau (9628)
a month ago
>Well, it's happening. And all of them use a lot of city resources in organizing the parades. The cities also pay for the events, claiming it increases tourism.
Sorry, is that specifically because they're pride or because city resources are using in hosting all parades? Can I see specific examples please?
>So if I go to a gay baker and ask for a cake that says "Sodomy is a sin and those who practice it will burn in Hell while I laugh", should he be forced to make it?
I think a baker should be forced to make a *generic cake*, as a matter of his public service remit if asked to by a gay couple, or an interracial couple. Adorning it with a message (positive or negative) is where it could be different. Do you think a baker should be allowed to refuse to make a cake for an interracial couple?
>Source? It sounds like you pulled it out of your ass.
https://www.expressnews.com/politics/article/republicans-push-christianity-texas-schools-17915163.php
https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/misguided-illegal-ironic-gop-push-school-prayer-rcna32763
https://americanjournalnews.com/mississippi-gop-school-prayer-mandatory-jill-ford-republicans/
>High drug use and an empty life since they have no family. Obviously. We see similar rates (though not as high) in the incel community.
Got any data that this describes the majority of LGBT people (drug addicts and lacking family)?
>Until recently, Europe was much more socially cohesive. This is no longer the case and we are seeing things change in Europe. You might want to look a little bit closer at just who is abusing drugs and getting preggers as teens in the USA.
Not an answer. Why is the much more religious USA suffering more than Europe on this issue? Why does the USA have worse issues with drugs and teenage pregnancy than many European countries?
How has western culture "declined"?
Should LGBT people have the right, the legal right, to pursue relationships with someone of the same sex?
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Heretic (304)
a month ago
>Sorry, is that specifically because they're pride or because city resources are using in hosting all parades? Can I see specific examples please?
Sure. Google "city funding of pride parades" and see for yourself. There's countless examples.
>I think a baker should be forced to make a *generic cake*, as a matter of his public service remit if asked to by a gay couple, or an interracial couple. Adorning it with a message (positive or negative) is where it could be different. Do you think a baker should be allowed to refuse to make a cake for an interracial couple?
A wedding cake is not a "generic cake", especially since the gay couple asked for a rainbow one at a Christian bakery. There's only one way to interpret that. Not only is a rainbow a symbol from God in Christianity, but marriage is an act before God. Interracial marriage isn't even close to the same thing.
>
LOL. Your source is one state lawmaker in Mississippi who was voted down overwhelmingly and the deranged rantings of Rachel Maddow? The third one is behind a paywall. Christians aren't forcing themselves on everyone like the LGBT mafia is.
> Got any data that this describes the majority of LGBT people (drug addicts and lacking family)?
Yep (though I didn't say majority). Biology shows that gay people can't reproduce by having gay sex....and as for drugs, one can google that:
"it is estimated that between 20 percent to 30 percent of gay and transgender people abuse substances, compared to about 9 percent of the general population."
https://www.americanprogress.org/article/why-the-gay-and-transgender-population-experiences-higher-rates-of-substance-use/
>Should LGBT people have the right, the legal right, to pursue relationships with someone of the same sex?
Yes. But the state shouldn't recognize it as anything special, nor should the state recognize the "marriage". Marriage was recognized by the state as a way for families to get started.
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Skavau (9628)
a month ago
>Sure. Google "city funding of pride parades" and see for yourself. There's countless examples.
No. I await details.
>A wedding cake is not a "generic cake", especially since the gay couple asked for a rainbow one at a Christian bakery. There's only one way to interpret that. Not only is a rainbow a symbol from God in Christianity, but marriage is an act before God. Interracial marriage isn't even close to the same thing.
Answer my question: Should a baker be also allowed to refuse service to an interracial couple?
And who said anything about adorning this hypothetical cake with rainbow imagery for the gay couple?
>LOL. Your source is one state lawmaker in Mississippi who was voted down overwhelmingly and the deranged rantings of Rachel Maddow? The third one is behind a paywall. Christians aren't forcing themselves on everyone like the LGBT mafia is.
There are many examples of state legislators and senators, congressmen pushing for mandatory school prayer. Have they been ineffective? Sure. But it happens.
>Yep (though I didn't say majority). Biology shows that gay people can't reproduce by having gay sex....and as for drugs, one can google that:
Not being able to reproduce via gay sex doesn't mean you don't have already existing family, nor does it eliminate the prospect of sperm donation, surrogacy or adoption.
>https://www.americanprogress.org/article/why-the-gay-and-transgender-population-experiences-higher-rates-of-substance-use/
So what about the other 70-80%?
>Yes. But the state shouldn't recognize it as anything special, nor should the state recognize the "marriage". Marriage was recognized by the state as a way for families to get started.
So what about heterosexual couples that are sterile, and/or have no plans to have kids?
How has western culture "declined"?
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Heretic (304)
a month ago
> No. I await details. (On city funded Pride parades)
What details do you want? It's undeniable that this happens on a large scale. Billions upon billions of taxpayer dollars go to Pride events sponsored by the state.
> Answer my question: Should a baker be also allowed to refuse service to an interracial couple?
I suppose if it was part of a religious ceremony that violates their personal beliefs, then they should. For instance, the Black Hebrew Israelites forbid interracial marriage in their religion and it would be unfair to force them to participate. Same with traditional Jews. But let's not pretend this is anywhere close to gay marriage.
> And who said anything about adorning this hypothetical cake with rainbow imagery for the gay couple?
Not a hypothetical. The famous gay wedding cake in Colorado was asked to have a rainbow design.
> There are many examples of state legislators and senators, congressmen pushing for mandatory school prayer. Have they been ineffective? Sure. But it happens.
Exactly. Meanwhile, the LGBT mafia has mandated a bunch of BS and have been successful. Hence the danger.
> Not being able to reproduce via gay sex doesn't mean you don't have already existing family, nor does it eliminate the prospect of sperm donation, surrogacy or adoption.
That's the exception. Gay sex can't produce families. Most don't have kids, thus there's no need for a marriage.
> So what about the other 70-80%?
What about them? The fact is that disease and drug use is rampant in the LGBT community. It's not something to be celebrated.
> So what about heterosexual couples that are sterile, and/or have no plans to have kids?
Once again, you're focusing on a small exception to set policies for everyone. This is how societies die.
> How has western culture "declined"?
Already answered. Are you over 25? If so, you should be able to remember a time where things were a lot better than they are now.
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Skavau (9628)
a month ago
>What details do you want? It's undeniable that this happens on a large scale. Billions upon billions of taxpayer dollars go to Pride events sponsored by the state.
Still waiting on some sources.
>I suppose if it was part of a religious ceremony that violates their personal beliefs, then they should. For instance, the Black Hebrew Israelites forbid interracial marriage in their religion and it would be unfair to force them to participate. Same with traditional Jews. But let's not pretend this is anywhere close to gay marriage.
I'm not even sure you can legally refuse that in the USA (interracial marriage).
>Not a hypothetical. The famous gay wedding cake in Colorado was asked to have a rainbow design.
Right. And my specific point was just to a vanilla wedding cake, without LGBT imagery. Should that be allowed to be refused?
>Exactly. Meanwhile, the LGBT mafia has mandated a bunch of BS and have been successful. Hence the danger.
I don't in principle see much different to a store owner being forced to serve an LGBT person over serving a black person.
>That's the exception. Gay sex can't produce families. Most don't have kids, thus there's no need for a marriage.
Okay. But most gay people, funnily enough, do have parents, siblings, friends etc.
>What about them? The fact is that disease and drug use is rampant in the LGBT community. It's not something to be celebrated.
Did I celebrate it specifically?
>Once again, you're focusing on a small exception to set policies for everyone. This is how societies die.
Should sterile couples and heterosexual couples that do not have children have their marriages revoked?
>Already answered. Are you over 25? If so, you should be able to remember a time where things were a lot better than they are now.
No. You've just claimed it. Some of the things you referred to have nothing to do with LGBT people. "Degeneracy" is subjective twaddle that in itself means nothing.
Why is the much more religious USA suffering more than Europe on this issue? Why does the USA have worse issues with drugs and teenage pregnancy than many European countries?
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Heretic (304)
a month ago
>Still waiting on some sources.
This is typical leftist behavior.
You're pretending this doesn't happen. You're refusing to admit that the government funds LGBT events, a fact that they even brag about. You're denying reality.
https://www.hrc.org/resources/president-bidens-pro-lgbtq-timeline
> I'm not even sure you can legally refuse that in the USA (interracial marriage).
You absolutely can. The Black Hebrew Israelites and traditional Jews do it all the time and advertise it.
> I don't in principle see much different to a store owner being forced to serve an LGBT person over serving a black person.
If it wasn't part of a religious ceremony, you would have a point.
> Right. And my specific point was just to a vanilla wedding cake, without LGBT imagery. Should that be allowed to be refused?
Yes, because it's part of a religious ceremony.
> Did I celebrate it specifically?
The State certainly does.
> Should sterile couples and heterosexual couples that do not have children have their marriages revoked?
You're not understanding the point of a marriage if you're asking this question.
>No. You've just claimed it. Some of the things you referred to have nothing to do with LGBT people.
Correct. I didn't say they did. My OP specifically mentions porn and promiscuity in addition. There's other factors too. But yeah, you'd have to have your head in the sand to pretend things are better than they were 20 years ago.
>"Degeneracy" is subjective twaddle that in itself means nothing.
Not to Christians. Christianity has a clear set of morals, which is why so many leftists who believe in moral subjectivity hate it.
> Why is the much more religious USA suffering more than Europe on this issue? Why does the USA have worse issues with drugs and teenage pregnancy than many European countries?
Christians in the USA are far happier, less using of drugs, less pregnant as teens, and so forth. Whatever the problems are, they aren't coming from Christians.
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Skavau (9628)
a month ago
>https://www.hrc.org/resources/president-bidens-pro-lgbtq-timeline
Most of these have nothing to do with using state funds to promote LGBT events. They focus on anti-discrimination, equality issues etc. One of the examples here is about gun violence.
>You absolutely can. The Black Hebrew Israelites and traditional Jews do it all the time and advertise it.
Can I see a specific example, please?
I would imagine that, if pressed, simply won't get pass the supreme court.
The only case I can see regarding the LGBT gay cake issue was that it was based on Colorado's law, and not the USA law.
>If it wasn't part of a religious ceremony, you would have a point.
What if we renamed "marriage" to "civil union"? So a gay couple could come in and ask for a "civil union" cake?
>Yes, because it's part of a religious ceremony.
See above.
>The State certainly does.
Where does the US state specifically celebrate drug abuse? I want details of actual events that openly celebrate drug abuse and addiction.
>You're not understanding the point of a marriage if you're asking this question.
I'll ask again: Should sterile couples and heterosexual couples that do not have children have their marriages revoked?
>Correct. I didn't say they did. My OP specifically mentions porn and promiscuity in addition. There's other factors too. But yeah, you'd have to have your head in the sand to pretend things are better than they were 20 years ago.
Many of the issues in the last 20 years are economic, not cultural. Also data in recent years have suggested that younger people are having **LESS SEX**.
>Christians in the USA are far happier, less using of drugs, less pregnant as teens, and so forth. Whatever the problems are, they aren't coming from Christians.
https://www.livescience.com/5728-teen-birth-rates-higher-highly-religious-states.html
Also, related: https://www.npr.org/2023/01/08/1147737247/teen-pregnancy-rates-have-declined-significantly
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Heretic (304)
a month ago
> Most of these have nothing to do with using state funds to promote LGBT events. They focus on anti-discrimination, equality issues etc.
So you're admitting that some do have to do with state funds sponsoring LGBT events? Finally!
>Can I see a specific example, please?
Yep. Already gave you two. The Black Hebrew Isrealites and traditional Jews don't allow interracial marriages.
> What if we renamed "marriage" to "civil union"? So a gay couple could come in and ask for a "civil union" cake?
Yep. Remember, the baker offered to sell them anything but a wedding cake. He had no issue with them being gay, but just didn't want to defile his religion.
>Where does the US state specifically celebrate drug abuse? I want details of actual events that openly celebrate drug abuse and addiction.
I didn't say they did. I said they celebrate LGBT which correlates with drug use.
> Many of the issues in the last 20 years are economic, not cultural. Also data in recent years have suggested that younger people are having **LESS SEX**.
Correct. Economics have changed along with culture, and it's not for the better.
And yeah, porn has had a considerable toll on young people.
>https://www.livescience.com/5728-teen-birth-rates-higher-highly-religious-states.html
You might want to look at the demographics of who is getting preggers. It's not the Christians for the most part.
Look, I know leftists get angry about it, but the truth is that Christians are happier, more likely to be married, less likely to use drugs, and have a superior lifestyle compared to "moral relativists" and LGBTers.
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Skavau (9628)
a month ago
>So you're admitting that some do have to do with state funds sponsoring LGBT events? Finally!
No, I didn't see any specific event there. Where has the US government funded LGBT events/pride parades?
>Yep. Already gave you two. The Black Hebrew Isrealites and traditional Jews don't allow interracial marriages.
Sources.
>Yep. Remember, the baker offered to sell them anything but a wedding cake. He had no issue with them being gay, but just didn't want to defile his religion.
So the state could just rename all marriages to "civil unions" and you'd be okay with that?
>I didn't say they did. I said they celebrate LGBT which correlates with drug use.
There's no reason to assume that it can only correlate with drug abuse, and that it can never do anything but that.
>You might want to look at the demographics of who is getting preggers. It's not the Christians for the most part.
"They found a strong correlation between statewide conservative religiousness and statewide teen birth rate even when they accounted for income and abortion rates.
For instance, the results showed more abortions among teenagers in the less religious states, which would skew the findings since fewer teens in these states would have births. But even after accounting for the abortions, the study team still found a state's level of religiosity could predict their teen birth rate. The higher the religiosity, the higher was the teen birth rate on average."
>Look, I know leftists get angry about it, but the truth is that Christians are happier, more likely to be married, less likely to use drugs, and have a superior lifestyle compared to "moral relativists" and LGBTers.
Yet this doesn't explain why the prominently non-religious europe has much less issues, state depending with drugs, teenage pregnancy rates etc. Many European countries have outright openly legalised many forms of drugs. You continue to not address this.
Why isn't Europe collapsing under the weight of its irreligosity?
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Heretic (304)
a month ago
All you did was deny the facts I presented and then make a ridiculous assertion:
>Yet this doesn't explain why the prominently non-religious europe has much less issues, state depending with drugs, teenage pregnancy rates etc. Many European countries have outright openly legalised many forms of drugs. You continue to not address this.
>Why isn't Europe collapsing under the weight of its irreligosity?
Um, Europe is collapsing and even faster than the USA. Look at the fertility rate as proof of this. Also, look at the riots in France last year by the Muslims.
Heck, even Richard Dawkins went viral recently for voicing this.
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Skavau (9628)
a month ago
>Um, Europe is collapsing and even faster than the USA. Look at the fertility rate as proof of this. Also, look at the riots in France last year by the Muslims.
The fertility rate in many European countries is comparable to the USA. Poland, one of the more religious european countries actually has a poor fertility rate in comparison to more secularised neighbours. A detail.
We're talking about the SECULAR populations of these countries. Not referring to issues from the Islamic population, which indeed is causing a lot of tension.
Also: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/happiest-countries-in-the-world
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Heretic (304)
a month ago
US fertility rate: 1.7
Poland: 1.3
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.TFRT.IN
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moviechatterer (13519)
a month ago
wow , you two have been busy all day in this little one on one tit for tat slanging match , and neither using the quote tags making it unreadable to others.
You lost me all the way back at
LGBT goes hand in hand with drug use, self hatred, decolonization, degeneracy, and just bad news all around
I'm surprised Skavu perseveres this long against that kind of obvious blind hate , he's clearly never going to make ant impression or change your view or anything .
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Heretic (304)
a month ago
I wouldn't call it "hate", as I don't hate them for their choices.
In fact, I actually pity them. But yeah. I'm not a moral relativist.
It's wrong and you don't need religion to tell you. Simply look at the unhappiness, suicide rate, and drug use and you'll come to the same conclusion....to say nothing of trying to teach kids about sexuality or mutilate them in genital surgery.
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Skavau (9628)
a month ago
Poland is also catholic as fuck.
That's why I pointed it out. Religion is no guarantee for a high birth rate given Poland.
You'll note the fertility rate of Belgium, Sweden, France, UK, Norway are 1.6 to 1.7. Also all pretty secular and non-religious.
And that comparatively religious countries like Spain have shit fertility rates.
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