I think I'm on Ted's side because I think he was a pretty good father after Joanna left the house. HE took care of Billy and always read comic books to him. Joanna did the right thing at the end? Not to let Billy suffer the "tragedy" twice. However, I've heard some people blaming Ted for his behavior before, they think Ted only looked after Billy for 18 months and that's not worthy for him to gain the custody. What do you think?
shareTed's side because Jonna walked out on her child.
Mrs Voorhees is watching you!
Joanna.
Ted didnt even know what grade Billy was in. He was ignorant to his child. He shouldve been that close with Billy from the beginning; not after Joanna left. He didt care before. He "became" a good father because he had no other choice. 15 months of good father doesnt make up for the 5 1/2 years of being a lousy father. Joanna walked out because she had come to a point where she believed that it was the only thing she could do to become a better person for her kid.
Ted is the obvious protagonist in the film. What makes it interesting is that the mother, who does the unthinkable, is not an absolute counterpoint to Ted. She derives some sympathy in this, some of which is provided by the slow to realize Ted, himself. This is what made the film so interesting back in 1979.
shareI believe that Ted was right. I wasn't alive in this time period so I'm not completely sure of all the social context, but Ted was the one who worked for living. This explains but does not justify his neglect or more so that he didn't have time for them. To an be fair though he did work to provide them with a nice life, yet if he had given his wife more attention she wouldn't have left. So I would say he drove her away, but she still walked out on them. After she left, without warning, Ted stepped up and filled both gender roles by himself. So then after Johanna left Ted was able after awhile to provide a stable life for the child. I found Johanna's actions at times to be somewhat questionable in terms of how she dealt with problems. Overall I thought by the end that Ted was the better choice because he loved his son very much but also he seemed much more stable. Johanna was in New York and didnt' come to see her son. Also instead of gradually coming back and reestablishing a bond with Billy she went right for custody. It is unjust that she leave for so long and then just come back, as abruptly as she left, and demand to custody without even really assessing the current situation between Ted and BIlly.
This ain't no Brokeback Mountain, I'm a real cowboy.
This film is meant to be Dustin's vehicle and he is the protagonist. Streep does a good job of blurring the lines of absolute fault in it with Joanna. Ted is to blame for letting things get as desperate as they became for his wife. I was on the kid's side and felt he would be living a shared custody kind of life anyway.
share He "became" a good father because he had no other choice.
NO OTHER CHOICE!!!! He could have neglected the kid, or gave him up to the state. INSTEAD he ended up losing the JOB HE LOVED and was good at, to take care of Bill's needs!
Joanna walked out because she had come to a point where she believed that it was the only thing she could do to become a better person for her kid.
So she leaves without making ANY provision for Billy's care, except to leave him with Ted whom she believes is unresponsive to his son's needs. And suppose Billy is abused to neglected in foster care. What good is her "becoming a better person"? Billy has needs NOW! Not next year, or next month....NOW!!!
What a parent YOU would make! "Dinner? Wait 'til breakfast, unless I'm tired!"
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The reason that one is prized for taking care of him, even if it is for a shorter time, is because he responded to his need and was there when she was not. Even if she was an emotional wreck, flat leaving her son is not a behavior that suggests that she makes rational decisions. Although clearly needed an instigator to start paying more attention to his son, in the end he diligently takes care of him while is she has simply decided to leave.
It does not mean her role needs to be erased. Perhaps after she has a bit more time to settle, they can agree on a joint custody. But to me, it seems that she felt that her son would be best suited right now by giving her some time to figure herself out, and therefore not negatively affect her son in the process.
Ted also took care of Billy those first 5 1/2 months too. He might not have been the primary caregiver and not as involved with his son as he could have been - but he was there and as the primary breadwinner, he provided for his family as a good parent should. Joanna walked away to "find herself," which is fine, but you can't just walk in and out of a child's life without it deeply affecting the child.
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Neither come out of this smelling of roses. Ted was an angry self-obsessed jerk, Joanna was a flake. They both should have been sterilised.
That's a feckin' jazz haircut!share
Ted's side because Jonna walked out on her child.
I think one of the reasons that this film was so successful is that it showed a shift in the traditional role of family. Ted was acting like a typical father that was so common back then. Joanna was a woman that wanted more than the traditional role of mother. She had dreams & goals that were all pushed aside when she had a baby. She showed she was a capable mother as well as a professional. If they had communicated early on they would have been able to find a way for both to work and still be good parents. Joanna & Ted weren't able to adapt to the changing roles of parents after women's lib. Both had to be forced into it.
I think Ted earns the viewer's sympathy because we see him acknowledge his mistakes. He admits in court, & more importantly privately to Billy, what he did wrong as a husband. Joanna's only chance to admit fault comes in court when Ted's lawyer asks a loaded question. Even then she will only say that it was the marriage that failed and her. Both of them failed in their marriage, but the film is from Ted's point of view so we only get to see his acceptance of this.
All the actors in this are terrific. Streep probably has the more difficult role because of her limited screen time and yet she is not a villain. She is someone you feel sympathy for. You can see that she loves her son deeply especially at the end when she makes the ultimate sacrifice for him. Had we seen more of the day she reunites with Billy more people might be on her side. She puts a human face on the changing role that women would play. Had this situation taken place 10 yrs before she probably would have been expected to accept her fate, and most likely would have done so.
So you don't see anything wrong with her just leaving out of the blue without telling the kid or trying to explain why so he doesn't blame himself? Or how about her gallavanting around with her new boyfriend and career and she couldn't even visit even once? Not saying there's anythying wrong with her having a boyfriend or career, but there was more than enough time for her to visit. And on top of that she sends that horrible letter telling the kid how there's more to life than being a mother and it just wasn't enough for her? Why should somebody be glorified as a couragious womanfor walking out on their kid? If she wanted a divorce then fine. But she chose to leave the kid in the dust without any explanation other than that being a mother wasn't enough for her, and even that explanation didn't come till a long time afterwards
shareThe problem is, by giving up her son, Ted wins. The MAN wins. Imo, this movie was a little sexist and a little harsh on Joanna.
And a "MAN" should NEVER win, right? Otherwise it's "sexist"! He WON because he DESERVED to win. He WAS Billy's most trustworthy, reliable, parent, even if the JUDGE couldn't see it.
"She loved her son, no doubt about that!"
And I think a large part of Joanna's wanting Billy back was to assuage her own deep guilt feelings. Why else would she voluntarily give him up, unless she doubted her own commitment to him? I'm not saying this is definately the case, but is something to be considered.
Yes. Ted was bringing home the bacon. He's not directly abusing Billy or Joanna. He's not cheating on her. He's a distant but he was responsive when she confronts him. He's earning money for all three of them to eat and live comfortably.
Is he supposed to quit?
People need to get this through their heads. You can not expect men to be one way in a marriage while refusing to oblige a man's wants and needs in the relationship. You can not hold men to high standards while giving women so much freedom. That's sexist, hypocritical and wrong. Men are human beings too. We have all the same emotions that women have. But, women continually demand that men react a certain way to those emotions while women can practically get away with murder.
It's true for some women.
shareIt's hard to root for either side.
It seemed that before Joanna left, Ted didn't appear to be too involved as father and possibly as a husband.
I suppose Ted was too engrossed in his work.
I don't agree with Joanna just leaving Ted & Billy like that.
If she was unhappy in the marriage, I agree that she should've left, but not abruptly like she did.
She should've told Ted that she was leaving and gave him a time period (week, month, etc.)
I can't understand why the judge gave Joanna custody of Billy given that she left him and Ted.
I'm glad that she let Ted have Billy.
I'm on Ted's side. Even though he started out being very absent to his family and thought making a lot of money and being successful in his career would make him the best husband. When his wife left, he tried his best & worked very hard to balance a healthy home life with his job. He chose his son over his work, which was a huge turning point.
I lived through a similar situation. My mother decided to leave when I was a kid. She left the house and everything behind. We saw her twice a month, for tiny amounts of time, her choice for limited contact. I remember my father struggling in the first few weeks. We ate mac & cheese and simple things for about a week. He had to adjust his life to manage the roles of 2 parents and he was very successful eventually. My sister came up with the term "part-time parent" for Mom, like parenting was a job. I admire my father so much for all of the sacrifices he had to make to raise 3 kids. We weren't perfect, but we fared very well. Dad never missed a school program or parent-teacher conference. I'm sure children like Billy felt the same way we did. It was confusing in the early days and as we got older & kids asked if I had a mom or if she was dead and the only answer I had was that she just didn't live with us, that was hard.
I'm definitely on Ted's side. It takes a strong person to pick up the pieces after losing a wife and mother. It takes a lot of work to raise a child alone.
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Niether aswell.
I think they were both as bad as each other.
Ted shouldn't have been so selfish and wrapped up in his work to listen to his wife and realize she was unhappy and in a way neglecting his son judging by his difficulties when he had to take over (not knowing how to interact with him etc.)
But when Joanna left Ted changed into a caring and devoted father and actually got to know his son.
Joanna did the right thing to leave and seek professional help. She was deeply unhappy/ depressed and wasn't able to continue living in the position she was in let alone care for her child.
Joanna was then in the wrong as she shouldn't have come back to claim custody of her son and attempt to rip him away from his new life.
Both made mistakes but both rectified them in the best interests of their son.
Ted changed and Joanna refused the custody in the end.