I think I'm on Ted's side because I think he was a pretty good father after Joanna left the house. HE took care of Billy and always read comic books to him. Joanna did the right thing at the end? Not to let Billy suffer the "tragedy" twice. However, I've heard some people blaming Ted for his behavior before, they think Ted only looked after Billy for 18 months and that's not worthy for him to gain the custody. What do you think?
shareHe was a questionable father at the beginning, but Ted never abandoned his responsibilities unlike Joanna.
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Both. This story is about redemption for both parents.
You have one who neglected his child for most of his life. The other walks out.
The fact is, Joanna's leaving is the catalyst that prompts both parents to reassess their lives and ways of parenting. Color me crazy, but I think a far worse scenario would have been staying together - Ted sinking into more neglect as his son grows up, Joanna becoming more emotionally volatile and desperate, and probably becoming a chronic depressive.
And their mistakes aren't vile or even that intentional. It's understandable that Ted would have been increasingly sucked into his work over time, completely ignored the needs of his wife and child, and it's understandable that Joanna, as she explained, was in a state of such emotional duress when she left that she wasn't even thinking properly. She needed help, badly, I think. Joanna doesn't abandon him for selfishly inane reasons, or because she's a cold-hearted jerk. She's having a nervous breakdown and considers herself anathema to Billy. It's gotten to an extent where she's unable, physically or emotionally, to take care of her own child.
The important thing is that she gets her sh!t back together and realizes she wants to be with her son more than anything else in the world. She returns, and her son is clearly overjoyed to see her. And meanwhile, Ted is prompted solely because of Joanna's departure to realize how much he's missed out with his son, and they develop a wonderful relationship. And honestly, I think it is a happy ending, because two parents have fixed themselves to realize how important it is to make their child the top priority in their lives.
I disagree.
Joanna left. She couldn't get her stuff together and be a mother at the same time; in the meantime, Ted had to get his stuff together while being a single parent. Why does Joanna get to go off and find herself or whatever she was doing, but Ted is somehow deficient for taking charge without the option of figuring things out by himself without the responsibility of taking care of his kid?
Family courts are still giving preference to the mother, and that's not necessarily a good thing. All women are not by nature good mothers.
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Joanna was suffering from some massive combination of guilt, low self-esteem, anxiety, depression, and god knows what else - possibly suicidal.
Ted was a fully functioning being whose biggest challenge was to figure out how to balance his work and family life. Which is obviously still a huge deal (don't get me wrong) and requires a exhausting effort to handle properly. But we're talking about the difference between a confused man learning to manage priorities vs. a woman who's temporarily mentally and emotionally impaired. That doesn't lessen Ted's accomplishments at all - I'm just arguing that Joanna was in a more dire situation, and one that was possibly life-threatening. "If I go back there, I might go out the window." Yeah, I think it's fair to say that she had a bit darker sh!t to deal with.
I don't think it's as black and white as some of you seem to think.
In the end, they clearly showed how both parents deserved another chance, and how the judge (having only spent a day listening to both sides), ruled too hastily.
Joanna was going through an extremely difficult eight years of her life, but she never stopped being the ideal housewife and mom. I can sympathize with that. Ted was not there to support her needs. Yes, he provided for them, but a family is more than that. For god's sake, he didn't even know what GRADE his son was in. That's disgusting. Ted was basically absent for eight years.
Yes, after spending that year with his son, he redeemed himself...and that's why it's not black and white. He knew what his son wanted and how to take care of him. He was more attentive and fatherly, which is what the judge should have looked at.
But Joanna's sacrifice in the end proved that she too cared for Billy, and that it wasn't some attempt to wreak havoc on and seek vengeance after her ex. They're both mature adults, and both of them equally deserved to be with Billy.
That to me is what the writers wanted the audience to get out of it. Not some, omg Joanna sucks, she left for 2 years. As I said, it's not so black and white.
"Contempt loves the silence, it thrives in the dark" -Merchant
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Look, Joanna went through some tough *beep* Okay. But that doesn't justify giving her custody of the kid after she ABANDONED him. Ted never abandoned him. Maybe emotionally, sure. But at least he was there. Maybe he was not a great father at the beginning. And maybe his priorities were a little screwed up, but AT LEAST HE WAS THERE. She wasn't there at all for over a year. She did not deserve custody after the *beep* she pulled.
And just for the record, it's not like Ted was ever abusive or anything. And at least he put food on the table.
The people mentioning about Ted being a workaholic need to remember something. This was back in 1979. In today's society, fathers meet more roles around the home, and are expected too. But in the 70's, society still dictated that the man worked and the woman stayed home with the child.
My point is, before judging either person, remember the time period and the role of men and women generally in society back then. We can't watch this movie through 21st century eyes.
In today's society, Joanna could have gone out and worked too, if she needed something else in her life. And the child may have been put in childcare for the day, since this seems to be the new fad of the 21st century.
In the beginning, I wanted to slap them both hard for not trying to communicate.
I did feel for Joanna who couldn't stand being in the same house with Ted and confessed to wanting to jump out of the window. You gotta listen to someone with that kind of nervous breakdown symptoms but she's not completely out of it that she couldn't figure out a better solution for their child.
But in the courtroom, I'm with Ted.
He redeemed himself and provided a stable home for Billy. Joanna made him "pay" for his selfishness and he learned to be unselfish. Joanna forced him to walk a mile in her shoes and he wore those shoes out.
Ted was genuinely happy to see Joanna and wanted to listen to her. I thought asking for what she was having - white wine - at the restaurant was his first sign of conciliation. He's a red wine drinker. He's ready for some compromise.
But within a few minutes of their meeting, Joanna put her cards on the table. Thanks for babysitting but I'm the mother and I'm back.
Billy Wilder Page, Play the Movie Smiley Game
www.screenwritingdialogue.com
I absolutely LOVED the book and was so invested in the story that when Ted learned Joanna had won custody, I threw the book across the room. I couldn't stand it. I left it lying there for three days before I could make myself pick it up, because I knew I had to see how he would ever, ever, say goodbye to his son.
I was very happy with the adaptation for the screen and they did a good job of it. I remember saying at the time that it wasn't as fairly done as the book had been, because the first part of the book is ALL Joanna, and you can see her slowly going crazy with this child in this apartment in this life. And you can see that Ted isn't really listening to her frustration. So when she walks, you understand it.
Since the movie started the way it did, you can't ever feel as much for Joanna as you do for Ted and Billy. But there are wonderful lines throughout the novel that don't make it into the film, and they added a poignant richness to it...the scene where Ted tries to explain to Billy what the new living arrangement will be, and the innocent questions as the child tries to understand until finally Ted is thinking, "Oh Jesus, I don't think I can do this."
And the final scene in the elevator....where Joanna asks if she can see Billy sometimes, he thinks that he could annihilate her with just one word, and she would go away and never come back. But he can't bring himself to do it, because, you know, neither of them are bad people. Maybe they were bad together, but they are each trying to do their best, and they each love their child.
Best of all....the novel ends with one of the most perfect lines ever: "It turned out to be an ordinary day. They went to the park and played monkeys, had Burger King for dinner, went back home, and Ted Kramer got to keep his son."
So, to make a long story short: I wanted Ted to win, because I knew that he had learned what he needed to be the kind of parent Billy needed in a way that Joanna still had not, and maybe was never capable of being.
Ted's.
When it boils down to it, Joanna left because she was unhappy and wasn't getting enough attention. IMHO that simply isn't reason enough to abandon your family. Marraige takes work. If you're unhappy you figure out a way to communicate that to your spouse then you work to make happiness. In the courtroom she sounded like a spoiled child who didn't get her way. That being said, I can't say that I disliked her. In the end I'd like to believe that her and Ted made up and got back together.
[Most] men are raised to believe that they should be providers and Ted was a good provider. Ted said himself that he started out on 'the bottom', he worked his way up in a very short amount of time from a mailroom job to a VP postion making the equivalent of about $100K in today's money. That tells me he's not a quitter and can makes things work if given the chance. He was left with his son and he made that work, I can't believe that he could make his marraige work.
Ted. Joanna abandoned her son. Case closed. Next.
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