They started branching off immediately. I assume he was using tech to hold everything together sing Kang doesn't have any natural powers, but why does him dying automatically release other versions of himself and the timelines?
shareIt's one of many things in the series that was dealt with by just leaving it vague and not explaining anything. Apparently if you don't explain things and pretend that it's not a plot whole then people will swallow whatever you feed them. Variant Loki's? Not a plot hole! because multiverse and timeline! The series never mentioned this, but mulitiverse and timelines! It's no longer a plot hole hooray!
The TVA is outside of time....but look, we just made a branch version of the TVA! It contradcits the flimsy threads of logic holding our story together, but never mind, look at this shiny bright thing over here!
Why does the timeline branch when the TVA still exists, just because Kang died? Look, over here, an alligator Loki!!!
There has been a ton of lying and misleading up to this point because the characters don't have honorable intentions. I would assume they will address these issues in the second season.
shareThey have had an entire season to explain the rules of time travel to us, but clearly everyone is still confused. That is just poor writing, whichever way you look at it. The lying was always about the history of the TVA and its motivations, not about the mechanics of the multiverse itself. They are not going to explain any of this shit, it is just going to be brushed over. There were so many sloppy things about the writing. Loki getting captured by ordinary humans. Loki getting beaten up by ordinary humans. Loki variants but only one timeline. Loki and sylive creating a nexus event despite the fact they were about to die in an apocalypse. Sylvie going back to the same apocalypse, not creating any branches, yet never bumping into herself. Entire universes seemingly being able to fit on one planet and being devoured by a monster the size of a small building. The end of time being populated almost exclusively by Lokis. Time branches happen in "real time" in the TVA, but now we have a TVA branch. I could go on, but it's just exhausting.
shareA few of your complaints aren't entirely valid, because they were somewhat explained in the series, or at least left open enough to be interpreted however the viewer chooses. Aldo, I don't think a second season was originally the plan, so things had to be tweaked to lead up a second season, which means unanswered questions.
shareSo you would be ok with a murder mystery movie that would leave the discovery of the killer to the audience and just … leave it open, also no hints or fake hints and … leave it open…
shareSo you would be ok with a murder mystery movie that would leave the discovery of the killer to the audience and just … leave it open, also no hints or fake hints and … leave it open…
shareI don't think you know what a plot hole is.
shareThe TVA had been compromised so its operation had been seized, Their leader kang had been killed, That lady who gave them orders went somewhere else, morbius no longer believed in the TVA again. Also why is variant loki a plothole? the multiverse always existed with different timelines and events, It was kang and the TVA who forced the multiverse to follow the same storyline not by magic but by destroying worlds and people not following the storyline he wanted. Its like the real world, we all have to follow some rules or laws, those who break the law are put in jail or executed but it still doesn't completely stop people from committing crimes.
shareI believe Immortus/Kang/Whatever-His-Name-Is explained this. They are outside of time, and he is the only thing keeping the timelines from branching to form new Kangs. When he dies, he is no longer doing this, so the timelines begin to branch off unchecked. While from our point of view 100,000 years takes 100,000 years to happen, from the vantage point of that castle, all time exists at once. Something happening in 100,000 years is happening simultaneous to something 100,000 years ago. All at once countless Kangs come into being. What we saw was all of history unfolding at once.
Also, it was made clear during their encounter with I/K/W that there have been many branches from the timeline over the years. It's only the branches that are going to lead to a new Kang that are pruned. Imagine the timeline like a rope, with many strands interwound. Each of those strands is a separate timeline. On one, a female Loki was born, on another, Loki got Hulked out, and so forth. When a strand forms that will lead to a Kang, those are treated like branches rather than intertwined strands, and they are pruned.
And it's all nonsense.
Specially since when Loki goes back he finds a DIFFERENT TVA with a Different Kang as the leader. So did she kill Kang or not? Killing Kang should NOT reset the whole universe from start to the end, should only allow branches in the timeline from the moment where Kang's work have stopped.
And it's a non-sense because time is not that fluid. Let's say Kang and TVA managed to keep the time flowing in a certain way. By killing Kang you don't undo all he has done before, to undo it you have to back in time and change the vents.
The TVA "timeline" is not possible. Events don't go past a point and then you start to have variants in the past for no reason. That has passed and if there were no variants at the time you cannot have variants pooping out of nowhere in the same timeline.
If one current branch has a Kang in it then that Kang is going to be a time traveling maniac. Therefor plenty of opportunities for branches from earlier points in different threads. It would multiply from there. We have to assume that the gate Sylvie opened went to the wrong line instead of the still existing TVA he knew. (otherwise I join the complaint side)
shareDoes it have to be a door to a "wrong" timeline? I went into detail in my reply to Asom below, but time is clearly a closed loop in Loki. We see it onscreen that way, not an infinite line. Sylvie killing Immortus allows Kangs to appear and mess around within that loop, changing the TVA.
shareSo in a sense, yes, it is all nonsense because time travel itself is nonsense. However, if we accept the rules as laid out by the MCU, it makes perfect sense.
Killing Kang (who I believe in that incarnation is actually better named Immortus) does not reset the whole universe from start to end. It does however, open up new futures. Instantly, all of time changes, because now all sorts of 31st Century Nathaniel Richards come into being, and they start hopping through time and traveling between universes.
Time, in the MCU, loops back on itself. Immortus stated this... he'd lived millions of lifetimes, he'd seen it all before, he'll see Sylvie soon once he dies... and he made it clear that if he died, the next loop would be different. We also see time displayed as a loop, not an infinite line. After dying, Immortus would not be there, outside of the loop of time, to prune any branches that lead to a Nathaniel Richards discovering the mulitverse. When Loki is sent back to the TVA, things have changed due to the death of Immortus.
I may be wrong. This is my own interpretation of what was stated in the show, either outright or via implication, but it makes sense in that nothing contradicts anything else.
It makes sense from a narrative perspective. It makes no sense however from a logical perspective.
"Immortus stated this... he'd live millions of lifetimes" except that it doesn't make sense: he hasn't. Other versions of him have.
As you could say about Loki: there are millions of Lokis (or potential) but still Sylvie and Loki are 2 separate entities, you cannot say that Loki have lived 2 lives and accumulated the experience and knowledge of 2 lives.
I took it to mean he's been through the loop over and over. When he said he's "older than he looks," I took that to mean he's, say, 100 timelines old. He hasn't died. But he's lived the same life over and over, at least in an observational sense. He's seen the same things happen over and over, and anytime something different happened, if it was something that would lead to another Kang, he pruned that timeline.
shareWell, and how exactly does that work?
Is anywhere established that it's a loop?
And him being a "normal" non super being how does he get to live through so many loops? And btw, any loop has an ending and a start, but he doesn't know the end. And no, it's not a loop if he gets killed and then ... what? the universe starts again with a new version of him while he retains all the experience? (that's the concept of loop ...)
So many things are either miss-explained either un-explained and put there just to move the plot forward but with no real explanations or effort to have the story make sense.
I presume that what happened will happen again. Now he's been killed the evil variant will takeover. However eventually the good version will win and end up where he we see him at the end of the series thus the loop
share" They are outside of time, and he is the only thing keeping the timelines from branching to form new Kangs. When he dies, he is no longer doing this, so the timelines begin to branch off unchecked. "
This doesn't answer the question at all.
HOW? Kang doesn't have super powers and if I remember correctly uses all tech. He has to be doing this with some kind of machine or device. We see no machine or device being destroyed, we just see him die.
I assume you're pulling knowledge from the comics. I've never read any of the Kang stories, or if I did it was in childhood and I've forgotten them. Maybe the MCU Kang is different, as was Thanos in some ways.
If your question is "how was Kang doing it," then you are correct, that was not specifically answered, though probably through some kind of technological or magical means. He stated that if he died, whatever had been holding the timeline together would die with him, and it did. I'm not particularly interested in the how, especially in a comic book movie, as I am the why, and the what next.
I don't remember much about Kang either, but did do a quick search. Kang is similar to Stark - does it through tech.
Yes, that is my question. Kang died and whatever holding the timeline together stopped doing that. Why, was my question.
I think that confusion that was displayed on Loki's face was also meant for the viewers. I'd imagine it will be addressed in season 2.
shareBecause apparently TVA does nothing.
shareBecause they knew how the "sacred timeline" was like up until that point. So they knew what to prune up until that point.
From that point on Kang didn't know anything and didn't know how to program and control things anymore.
The branches didn't start because he died, they started because they crossed "the end" that was known.
Nope, we see a different TVA, mobius not remembering Loki and a statue of a different Kang. That means that everything has changed in the past. So not quite.
And we've seen before that they were tackling branches in all the spawn of the timeline, past present and possible future.
"The branches didn't start because he died, they started because they crossed "the end" that was known."
If true, I don't think that was stated or made clear. Not to mention, it still doesn't answer the question. Something was holding the timeline in place. Why did it stop working a that point?
I don't think that's a very important question. It's like asking why Hela broke free the moment Odin died. Clearly he was using some sort of magic or force to imprison her, and it ceased to be effective upon his death. What exactly that magic or science was is not all that important or interesting, at least to me.
However, if you want a plausible answer, consider what I wrote previously. To expand on that-- the viewer is seeing things from a standpoint outside of time. After the Kang we met, who I'll call Immortus to avoid confusion, dies, he no longer runs the TVA, so the TVA stops working. Timelines stop being pruned, and the effect is exponential. As new Kangs come into being, the hop through universes/ through time, creating new branches all over the place. These things take centuries in our time, but they are all happening at once from the standpoint of someone outside of time. Since none of that was possible when Immortus was alive, it only begins after his death. He doesn't need to be doing anything special other than existing to maintain the status quo. When he ceases to exist, that sets it all in motion, and since we see all of time at once, it appears to us to happen instantly.
You don't think it's an important question to ask why the biggest event in the show - that happened during the climax of the show - happened? I think it would be a little more honest to admit it simply doesn't matter to YOU.
shareYou are asking more of a "how" than a "why" though, right? We know why it happened. Immortus died, and he was the only thing keeping the timeline intact, and preventing the rise of Kang. Whether it was a biological implant synced to his heartbeat, a magical spell, or an app he had to tap once every day, the how is kind of immaterial. And yes, I've admitted a couple times above that the how is not all that interesting to me. I'm not saying it is of no interest to anyone.
shareI agree with what I think FilmBuff was trying to say.
The death of "He Who Remains" will eventually cause the TVA to unravel and alternate universes to branch off without being pruned.
Eventually.
However, Loki, Sylvie and He Who Remains are already standing at the "end" of time. Anything that happens "eventually" will, from their perspective, happen immediately.
Does that make sense?
It's like all the time travel movies where something that happens to a past self (Ron Silver's facial scar in "Time Cop") immediately shows up on the present self (like "Project Almanac," where a character writes on his own past self's sleeping body, and the writing immediately shows up on the character's own body while he's writing it)
Oh just thought of another example: "Bill & Ted" break their historical guests out of jail by just imagining what they might do ("I'll steal Dad's keys and hide them ... here!").
I assume it's essentially a massive nexus event across all timelines. Where small alterations by a single person can have large impacts on individual timelines, his existence was intertwined in all of them. Or something.
shareI have a feeling that, similar to the show Lost, Loki’s show runners will not have satisfying answers to many of the mysteries they have raised in the first season. The viewers will keep returning in the futile hope that the show’s multiplying plot holes will be explained away. At some point, having been handsomely paid over many seasons, the creators just walk away from the show leaving many long-time fans disappointed. It’s a time-worn Hollywood formula by now.
share‘Lost” all over again? At least that was more interesting …
shareA LOT of Lost's questions were answered. "Nothing was answered" is just a bullshit argument people who didn't like it or did and eventually soured to it use to blindly spit out. It didn't address every single details, but a lot of the major stuff was answered.
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