For me, just a few:
-A cool main theme for the score
-Play around a bit more with Utah's moral ambiguity.
-Recast Keanu Reeves with Johnny Depp (similar look/vibe at that time and a better actor)
-Recast Lori Petty with Patrica Arquette
-More examples of using dogs as weapons.
-In-depth exploration of eating dead rhinoceros ass.
-Reduce screen time of bare men's buttocks
-J Utah accidentally shoots a duck while recklessly firing his gun while screaming "No."
-Recast Gary Busey with Weird Al.
-Change Keanus character name to "Bobby New Hampshire."
get me two Bobby! lol
shareNo need to change anything. Mark Isham did an outstanding job with the score. I like Keanu in this one, the only movie besides The Matrix I can stand him. Lori Petty was very charming, loved her in this movie. I think she and Keanu had a good chemistry. Kathryn Bigelow knew what she was doing, altough I consider Strange Days her masterpiece.
shareI will agree to everything you said. Keanu ALMOST wrecks this but Bigelow managed to keep him just passable enough. Better actor may have improved it but its good enough as is. Utah is kind of meant to be an idiot surface level fool while Bodi is the "Spiritual" one. Both somewhat frauds in their own way. Petty is fine. Some of the scenes of Keanu acting border on parody acting but its basically a top tier popcorn film. Swayze is the real star of the film. Im not sure who they could have used instead of Keanu. C Thomas Howell would have been interesting as he could play naive well but still have an edge to him and be more serious. Depp? I see Depp as more the Swayze role. Michael Biehn should have been in it as a supporting character somewhere IMO but its cast pretty well. Val Kilmer would have been interesting as Utah. He plays a similar role in Thunderheart and is extremely good.
Score is great. Magical. Isham was always underrated. He has a unique style. Check out his score for The Hitcher if you are a soundtrack junkie (Guilty here). Isham always was a little more understated compared to people like Goldsmith, Williams, Horner, Zimmer etc.
Bigelow.. Hmm. Yup Strange Days might be her best. Shes a very solid director though and can cross genres effectively. Point Break is up there even with its flaws and Near Dark is one heck of a horror/western/vampire film. I agree though in terms of depth I would go with Strange Days. Hurt Locker was fine but I didnt think it was anything THAT great. Was glad to see her get recognized though as she is a fine filmmaker with vision.
Remake wasnt a horrific film but it never should have tried to piggyback off of this. They should have just called it something else and it would have been more well received. It really doesnt match up with Bigalows Point Break well AT ALL. Cant recast someone like Swayze. Remake also went too far fetched to be believable. Original PB is somewhat realistic stunt wise.
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Could you please explain why you call Utah and Bodhi somewhat frauds? I'm interested to know what you mean by that?
shareHad to re-read it to get my train of thought back. I think I meant in the way that Utah is not a serious portrayal of an FBI agent. He has all the maturity of fast food worker. Thats fine when he is undercover in some instances but when he is with other agents its so unbelievable it takes you out of the film. As a character Utah doesnt even try to be serious. Hes basically a clown. I dont really blame Keanu for that thought because he obviously cant act... he can only act like he is acting. To fix that you would basically have to recast the role with an actor. Bigelow does use music throughout the film in the scenes where Keuannu is TRYING to act though in order to convey the scene and distract from his performance. The scenes with Busy and Swayze its not as noticeable because they dominate the scenes.. especially Busy with his wackiness. That always helps hide Keanus flaws in films.
Bodi is a fraud more as a character because beyond all his talk of the "spiritual side" hes nothing more than a criminal and bank robber with selfish motives. Not very "spiritual" LOL. He puts up a front but its pretty transparent. He knows it as well which is why the bodi character and Swayze's portrayal does such a radical shift after the bank robbery goes south Bodi finally "Removes His Mask" hich was a hint for the audience of what was going on with the character. After that Bodi's true character is revealed and he is no longer the fraud of "Spiritual Guru". He becomes his true self.. A self serving criminal and murderer.
End of the film Bodi is still trying to get away from his true self. He is overtaken by the pure force of the environment that he has put himself into though and is killed. Essentially Suicide because he has nowhere else to go. Again not very Spiritual.. more selfish and self serving.
To Be Continued
There I kind of explained it. Not sure I did a real great job of it. Its a great performance by Swayze and theres a lot more going on with the Bodi Character than people catch because the film is great but kind of silly. Keanu's performance kind of turns the film into a stylized action film because hes the lead. I still like the film but that in spite of Keanu. It really needed a protagonist that could act in the film to keep things somewhat on track. The love story aspect. The new Agent in the FBI aspect. The interactions between Bodi and his crew. The scenes where Keanu doesnt speak hes great. The Chase. The raid on the House etc. Swayze saves the film for me though and Busy is interesting and believable. Wacky but also serious. Good acting from both. Gross is also overlooked in the film and excellent for his "surfer" part but its minor.
Been a little while since I have seen this so Im somewhat going from memory. No Mans Land and Bad Influence are much more character driven stories that deal in this type of film. Obviously fight club as well. Point break falls more into Fast and Furious territory but I would say PB is a far better film than anything F & F due to the acting in that as well. Paul Walker a better actor than Keanu though by far. Best of these types for me was Point Break and Fight Club though. This.. devilish stranger type story that takes you out of your original self etc. Im probably forgetting some.
Maybe do a time jump just for fun. Paul Walker as Johnny Utah along with Swayze as Bodi. That would work. Swayze still owns the film but Walker would do well enough acting wise where you dont role your eyes every time Johnny Utah speaks.
Great explanation.👍
shareMeh.. I "try". Theres always a lot more thought into these characters than people think it just doesnt show up on screen sometimes. Hence why good acting is important. Not as much today because writing isnt as prioritized in films. Lord help us once everything is AI written. Its going to be the end of good cinema.
Hey Utah transforms at the end as well because of his fraud. He basically becomes his own person and finds himself. Thats why he throws his badge into the Ocean at the end of the film. The Rain is a symbol for cleansing and renewal. Always look for water in films to find meaning in symbolism as its used regularly. The moment he takes the cuffs off of Bodi is the moment Utah becomes transformed and is no longer a fraud. It would have been more evident if the Utah character was done by a better actor. Again maybe Val Kilmer playing a role similar to what he did in Thunderheart. There are many parallels to Kilmer's Thunderheart portrayal and Johnny Utah in PB. Both FBI agents.. Naive.. Inexperienced.. Lost etc. Kilmer and Swayze going toe to toe would have been legendary. Busy and Kilmer interactions as partners would have been great as well.
Still a good film though. Remake/modernization was an interesting attempt. Forgettable but I think they were trying. The Original is Not and is memorable. Nice Job overall Kathryn Bigelow. One of the most fun films of the early 90s.
Watch Thunderheart sometime if you have never seen it and you will see what Im talking about. Great film and well written.
Depp is not athletic. I can’t even see him on a surfboard.
shareI wouldnt say Keanu is athletic either. Depp just wrong for that role though. Hes played that type before in Donnie Brasco but this is a different kind of film. I doubt Depp would have even taken the role at that point in his career. Tough call. Replacing Utah with a serious actor could change the dynamics of the whole film. Utah needs to be somewhat Dumb and almost nobody does "Dumb" better than Keanu. He basically made his career playing Dumb. Of course to the younger crowd he is some sort of Charles Bronson wannabe which is laughable to me. They also think he is some sort of "deep thinker" which is also pretty funny.
Jason Patrick might have been right but maybe a little too old. Seems like he was about the right age though as opposed to Swayze. I think he might have worked but not sure Patrick would have wanted that role being so similar in ways to Lost Boys.
Keanu was perfect. Why are you trying to recast a perfect movie. Keanu and Swayze were perfect together too. And Keanu has a physical presence. Anyone who saw The Gift. Standing up in that courtroom scene. You could feel the raw violence his character had. And he’s fearless. Keanu became an accomplished and regular surfer after "Point Break.” Surfers hold him in high esteem. Reeves also has extensive martial arts training in Judo, Brazilian Jitsu, weapons, and stunt work. Depp and Keanu are the same age now - Depp looks so out of shape now and he’s really short. Jason Patric was always doing Brando. Depp is a fine writer. Actor. Raconteur. But he’s not athletic. You’ve underestimated Keanu. My Own Private Idaho. Both great performances by River and Keanu.
shareI like the film. Its just more or less a what if. Patrick was a much more serious actor and the film would be very different probably more in line with something like "No Mans Land" (1987) which this film basically rips off or was at least inspired by. No mans Land is a more serious film however. Bigelow took the idea and stylized it to mke it her own. IMO it stands on its own as is. Keanu "almost" wrecks the film though. Go back and watch his acting. Its atrocious at times even for the character he is playing. His interactions in love scenes with Petty are ridiculous. The more I think about it the more I would go with C Thomas Howell but Swayze didnt want to keep staying attached to him. Howell would have been more convincing while still keeping the naivety of Utah though.
I know people like Keanu these days but hes just a lousy actor. Hes better now obvioussly than back then. Watch Copallas Dracula for goodness sakes. Its atrocious. Keanu would have been better suited to play oneof the ex presidents because they all basically acted like morons. Maybe switch the roles between Keanu and James Lee Gross. Gross is a far more capable actor especially back then and he had good chemistry with Swayze in the film.
Please dont get offended. Keanu is tough to watch unless people are just die hard fans. Its like watching a highschooler act in a play. Swayze was very kind to him in scenes as he always was with his costars. Swayze was a fine actor people just didnt see it often because he liked to have fun in choosing his projects. Tiger Warsaw one of Swayze's Best performances. Keanus best acting is basically Bill and Ted because hes kind of a goof that trys to act like hes a deep thinker. These days though people just think anyone is a deep thinker if they can understand basically anything some celebrity says.
I dont hate Keanu Reeves. His acting has gotten more passable as he has learned to basically "Stop Acting Like You Are Acting!".
Keanu was perfect for this movie. Depp is the better actor but in this movie, Keanu fits the bill. Jason is always doing Brando, but he’s good. Depp could do the scenes but he would look like Frankie Avalon in the surfing part. I am wondering if you have seen My Own Private Idaho because sometimes a person just has to look and feel the part. In The Gift, Keanu was more than passable. He was terrifying. I agree with Keanu’s earlier movies - Dracula, Liaisons - but he nailed this role. I never once thought he wasn’t right for this role. And I am one to think that often. I thought Leonardo was miscast in Titantic.
shareI think the trick with Keanu is for him not to say much. Looks wise hes fine. The way he carries himself is fine. When he starts delivering dialogue it goes south fast. Yes I agree he has gotten better but Im not sure thats saying a lot either as it couldnt have gotten any worse. Swayze is what holds Point Break together. He has quite a bit of range in the film for what it is. The Bank scene that goes south onward to the end of the film is where he really takes control of the film. Up until then hes just playing Crazy Swayze.
The Final scene in the film is great but Keanu almost wreck it with his line "Hes not coming back" which has a delivery akin to someone doing a parody on John Wayne. Kurt Russel as Jack Burton comes to mind. Luckily Bigelow quickly jumps into a rock song at the end and it changes the focus of the scene... Kudos to Bigelow.
Keanu's acting and delivery is similar to Kurt Russel as Jack Burton or Bruce Campbell as Ash for the evil dead films. The only difference is Keanu is actually trying to act serious. Its truely a sight to behold. It can work in a comic sort of way sometimes though. I thought he was decent in Constantine because the film is somewhat schlock albeit good schlock. John Wick is the same in some aspects especially after the 1st.
Leonardo miscast in Titanic.. I agree. Bale would have been the better choice. Im not a huge fan of Decaprio but I wont go so far to say he is a bad actor. He does well enough to not take me out of the story with horrible line readings. Keanu in Titanic would have been something to behold. Some of Keanu's line delivery in the Matrix is also crazy. "Are You telling me I can Dodge Bullets" is one of the zingers where he goes full Jack Burton mode. Theres a bunch but I have not watched that film in a few years.
I laugh just thinking of that final scene in PB where Keanu confronts Bodi for the last time. Ive always thought Swayze doesnt look at him to avoid laughing. Dracula..Oh Lord.
Bale would not have been a better choice. I don’t even know where you came up with that one. Bale was never a contender to play Jack. He would have horrible chemistry with Kate. It was Matthew McConaughey who would have been the better Jack straight off of Time to Kill. Billy Crudup was mentioned. DiCaprio at this stage in his career just looked like Elliot Page - right after The Quick and the Dead. Anyway, that’s not the point. I am not talking about DiCaprio’s acting; I am talking about how he didn’t look like Jack. He looked 12 years old.
Last night I went to see My Own Private Idaho in a theater. I forgot this was such an excellent movie and ahead of its time. River stands out, but so does Keanu in the role of Scott Favor. Vincent Canby of NY Times said of the two leads, River and Keanu: “The performances, especially by the two young stars, are as surprising as they are sure. Mr. Phoenix ("Dogfight") and Mr. Reeves (of the two "Bill and Ted" comedies) are very fine in what may be the two best roles they'll find in years. Roles of this density, for young actors, do not come by that often.”
I loved when Keanu said at the end of Point Break, “He’s not coming back.” I had no problem with that. I must say that the ending of this movie is one of the most effective and amazing endings of any movie. The visual of that last ride of the 50 foot wave. BTW I do not see Depp ever being a QB. Point Break is not a failed movie. It is a cult classic. And it is so for a reason - Keanu and Swayze. It all works.
Hmm Pretty sure it was between Bale and Dicaprio at one point but I could be wrong. The same was the case for American Psycho. Dicaprio got axed from that and Bale was chosen. For a little while there Bale and Dicaprio were competing for roles. The writing for Titanic is so childish Im not sure what could be done other than fixing the writing. It did appeal to a child demographic though which is now grown up. Probably why so many of this current generation dont appreciate good films.
Well River Phoenix had acting ability. Sure Keanu is somewhat passable in it. Never said PB was a failure. I love the film. Its held together by Swayze though DESPITE Keanu just as Dracula is held together by Oldman and Ryder DESPITE Keanu.
Look I get it. You love Keanu Reeves. Its not a big deal. He is basically a walking parody of himself in films though and thats a fact. In the right role it can work (Bill and Ted). Other times it can "Kinda" work if he is surrounded by real actors and a good director.
Dont worry I like William Shatner and hes basically a walking parody as well.
I can tell you one Director that would be perfect for Keanu that has never happened. Sam Raimi... That needs to happen someday. Keanu would be perfect for Sam Raimi's style of film. Nice little small budget highly creative film. Make Nick Cage the villain with his german expressionistic style and its a winner. That would cover up a good bit of Keanue's ridiculous line delivery when he is in "Dude" mode.. which is about as much range as he has ever had. Kind of like the pairing of him with Dennis Hopper in Speed.
Hey I like Point Break but lets not pretend that Keanu Reeves is some sort of great actor. If you just watched the film and still dont understand where Im coming from I dont know what to say. Its basically plain as day. Hes got as much acting ability as a cartoon character. Try watching something like Angel Heart.... Die Hard.. even Predator.
Angel Heart. What about it?
shareAngel Heart. What about it?
shareJust an example of great acting. Hey Letless.. I dnt want you getting offended and worked up. I understand people have actors they like for whatever reason. I have mine as well. We disagree on Keanu as an actor. Thats as far as it goes. I dont have any ill will towards you .. or even Keanu for that matter.
If some of my posts about Keanu come off as vindictive or attempts to get you upset I apologize. Thats not the intention. He was a good fit for Knock Knock because that character plays kind of a gullible fool. I just disagree with his casting in Point Break so much because hes kind of a Barney Fife FBI agent that manages to outwit a group of competent Bank Robbers and its kind of comical. Plus his dialogue LOL. That part where he leaves a message to Lori Petty apologizing is straight out of Bill and Ted. PB Keanu scenes can be an absolute riot. Deliver those lines yourself outloud like Keanu does and you will understand what I mean.
Make sure you see Near Dark by Bigelow if you have not seen it. Shes a very good director and most people miss that one because it can be hard to find. Solid acting all around in that film and it very different from the norm. Bigelow has a lot of ability as a filmmaker. Not sure what she has been up to lately. Most new films a are hard for me to watch.
Point Break has one of the best chase scenes of all time BTW. Easily top 5. Career performance for Swayze (one of them anyways). Some of his best work is in PB and thats saying A LOT because Swayze is always underrated as an actor. Thats a tricky role not to become stupid and I think he is THE ONLY person that could pull it off that well. Hes not really dark in it like Pitt is in Fight Club or other PB style films... Bad Influence, No Mans Land etc.
You are all over the place. I have seen all Bigelow movies. I have seen Angel Heart. I would never in a million years think to put this movie up as an example of greatest acting. It was controversial and has De Niro as Lucifer and NOLA and Mickey and Lisa - but I would offer up Raging Bull. You are the main poster of this post asking about Depp in the Johnny Utah role and I think he would have been good except for the athletic parts which are many. Why apologize to me if I answer. I think Keanu was good in Point Break. You mention Dracula. But it is you who I don’t think have seen all of Keanu’s movies and actually I am wondering by your list of those three movies (Angel Heart, Predator, Die Hard) and all the vampire movies whether you are film literate. I liked them BTW. And, Bram Stoker’s Dracula was excellent; it is Gary Oldman who was the great actor. These posts are too long to read and nothing is really being said that’s new.
shareUm Rourke in Angel Heart is one of the best acting performances of all time. No Im not film illiterate. I was just throwing out some different Genres that are more popular.
Posts are too long LOL. 3 paragraphs per post? OK then. I will try to remember that if we speak again. My apologies. Keanu has a few good films if hes in the right role with the right director. Bill And Ted was good. Knock Knock was OK for a dark comedy. Films like PB or Matrix did well in spite of his poor performances. Kind of like Will Smith in ID4. I did think Keanu was decent in Constantine but its kind of a whacky film and basically everyone is hamming it up. Speed is OK because Hopper acts like a buffoon and it helps Keanu's "Bro" and "Whoa" type performance.
Yup. Conversations about done. Think we both made our points. Be well and have a good night. We can now take a "Break" from our "Points"
Take Care letess and nice chatting.
Did you see Barfly? Did you see My Own Private Idaho? You seem to watch a certain kind of movie and that’s it. Angel Heart and Die Hard and Predator. All in the same sentence. Angel Heart is an underrated movie. Rourke was very good but he was magnificent in Barfly, as was Dunaway. Bonet gave a brave performance. Die Hard is my Christmas movie. Rourke is a great actor. Keanu is in a different category, but there are people who are right for a role who are not great actors. They have a presence and they are believable. You are making a big deal out of this and implying more than what I’ve said. When I say Keanu’s other movies, I mean his other movies other than Speed and the ones you list. I am talking about the ones I listed.
shareUnderstood. Yes I have seen Barfly but it has been many years. Actors are great in it but its kind of depressing to me and not something I rewatch all the time.
I think Keanu was a solid choice for Knock Knock. Probably one of his best performances. Hes had a few couple others but I would have to take a look at his filmography to remember them all. Hes in a lot of films. I give him credit for doing smaller films sometimes. Hes better suited in things like comedy IMO. I could see Keanu work in a film like Crank (Jason Statham film). Little tricky for him these days because he is older.
Maybe something like a quirky Private Investigator character. I dont think he has the acting chops to be convincing in something like serious Film Noir but Keanu might be able to pull off a character like Fletch which Im sure they will end up rebooting eventually. John Wick has gotten pretty wacky now. Thats why I brought up Sam Raimi. Keanu could probably pull off horror Comedy or somthing like Army of Darkness.
Have not watch Idaho since around the time it came out. Keanu traveled in some very dark occult circles back then. Pretty sick stuff. Kudos to Keanu for not destroying himself with drugs/alchohol. I remember the scandal surrounding his girlfriends death. Marylin Manson involved in that If I remember right.
You mentioned Die Hard and Predator, are you saying that Arnold and Bruce are better actors than Keanu?
shareDefinitely Bruce Willis. Thats not even close. Every actor in Predator is more convincing than Keanu in point break.. yes. Even Arnold does a serviceable Job. Its arguably his best performance in his younger years.
I cant believe Im having to explain this notion that Keanu Reeves cannot act LOL. Do people even watch his films? Not trying to gaslight people here but COME ON! Hes basically only convincing when he say Dude, Bro, or Whoa and he even screwed up "Whoa" in the Matrix. Keanu Went right into Bill and Ted mode again.
Mctiernan would fire Keanu on the first day LOL. I would pay money to see someone like Friedkin try to deal with Keanu and get a decent performance out of him. I dont know what was going on with Coppola.. he likely wanted a goofy performance in that film IDK. I guess it pushes the audience to want Ryder and Oldman together. Keanu is kind of an unlikable doofus in that film.
Seriously we are talking about Keanu Reeves here. His range is basically Stoned, Clueless, or DONT TALK Keanu just keep quiet and let the other actors do the scene. Anything outside of that will remove you from the film. Point Break he pretty much ran with clueless and staying quiet. Whenever we strayed off that and tried to deliver a line he was basically a parody of an actor or FBI agent. Jack Burton or Bruce Campbell style. Swayze must have quietly been thinking WTH??? Bigelow probably said "dont worry I will make it work somehow Patrick." Kudos to her for doing so. Music helped greatly.
Thanks for clarifying.
Keep up with the smart and funny posts! 👍
def recast Lori. she didnt seem to fit the part. but I guess she was the new "it" girl back then.
shareI'd have probably stuck in a bunch of skateboarding too.
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