MovieChat Forums > Horizon: An American Saga - Chapter 1 (2024) Discussion > OUCH.. this is looking worse than I thou...

OUCH.. this is looking worse than I thought for Costner


“Horizon: An American Saga,” the Western epic that he wrote, directed, produced, starred in and ponied up $38 million of his own money to bring to theaters."

"There’s just one problem: No one went to see it. This past weekend, “Horizon” opened with only $11.3 million against a $100 million budget."

news.northeastern.edu/2024/07/01/kevin-costners-horizon-box-office-failure/#:~:text=This%20past%20weekend%2C%20“Horizon”,for%20an%20Aug.%2016%20release.

Kevin better start making more coffee commercials or getting his tail back to Yellowstone. Im suprised all his fans are not at least going. Ill have to dig into this a little.

reply

He already commented on the opening weekend numbers -
https://variety.com/2024/film/news/kevin-coster-horizon-box-office-flop-1236057903/

Key takeaway is - he cares more about the film looking/sounding exactly as he had envisioned it, rather than how much money it will bring.

I suspect he'll make his money back via streaming and other sales, and that's something he most likely already knows. I think the way he thinks about the overall situation is quite admirable. If you are a true artist, you care more about the quality of work, rather than the amount of money it will bring, if any.

reply

Hes a true something all right. True IDIOT LOL. Brilliant move to piss all over your fan base. Sheesh. Pride comes before the fall. No wonder he has to self fund.

"I think he's even showing now that he's a person of a level of energy and integrity and of vision and that's why I did it. I don't often step out.” Although he hasn't hit the campaign trail for the general election, Costner has endorsed Joe Biden for president."

"He also said at the time that he’d in interested in a Michelle Obama presidency. “Michelle’s incredibly bright and articulate and has possessed good judgement and experience as a result,” Costner said. “Why couldn’t she be [president]?”

https://variety.com/video/kevin-costner-joe-biden-pete-buttigieg/

"Actor Kevin Costner said he was “OK” with losing fans over his political views, saying he “didn’t really care how the cookie crumbles”

https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/3736298-kevin-costner-says-its-ok-if-he-loses-fans-over-political-views/

reply

Michelle and Biden? Yeah - that's pretty dumb.
Still - he's nowhere near Deniro's derangement syndrome level.

reply

LOL.. I think Kevin has his own brand of derangement. I still like his old films 80s timeframe but come on. No people know why Cruise trys to keep his mouth shut. Tom is Nutty and in the Occult but hes not completely suicidal. I dont know how Kevin gets himself out of this. If the films are going to bomb this bad just pull them and re-edit to a tv series for streaming. I dont see DVD sales being all that strong either. Hes put himself in a corner. Maybe he will stage some event that gets him some good press IDK. Deniro can afford to be stupid. Costner really cant when hes this vested into the production. Hes got some work to do.

reply

most writers/directors get worse over time, not better
It's possible that Costner has gotten to that age bracket where directors/writers begin to fail.
I imagine he's made more than enough money to be OK, even if this flops completely and does not make all of his money back.

Because of court proceedings, we can pretty much estimate his net worth - it's a tad above 400 mill - and his annual earnings.

Speaking of which, looks like money does play a big role in his motivations after all, so he's gaslighting a tad, when he says that it doesn't matter if this film is successful or not. The reason why he's still not doing yellowstone is because he asked for 12 mill per season and paramount said no.

anyways, you can read more here - https://parade.com/celebrities/kevin-costner-net-worth

reply

Yeah Im not too worried about Costner going broke. This is just a hit to his monumental ego more than anything else. Must be fun in the Costner household this week LOL. He probably thought this would be bigger than Dances With Wolves which was a gamble that paid off for him. Tin Cup... for REAL LOL. He keeps whaling those golf balls right into the pond. Oh well.. pride comes before the fall. Go woke go broke. The fans or Lack of fans are making themself heard. Costner always been an out of touch elitist. I liked him most when he was just a struggling actor.

Agree most directors have a shelf life. They burn out and loose creativity. Some get too safe.. some go nuts and gamble too much. Coppola is one but he knew what he wanted to do wouldnt be commercial successes and stayed realistic just doing small films. The Mega one is just a LONG time project he wanted to finally finish. Its going to bomb though but he doesnt care. Hes basically completely retiring from what I gather.

Costner may not be done directing after this but I dont think he will headline a major film again. Hes basically 70. It doesnt really work on something this scale as a commercial success.

reply

As I just mentioned in another reply, it seems like it's Paramount that decided to shortchange him for the latter seasons. In fact, he was willing to go for a lower pay, but perhaps not as low as Paramount wanted him to go.

Imagining what I'd be thinking in his position right now.... and I think that's what reflected in his own comments - I may be losing big money here, but at least I'm keeping my pride and self-respect, rather than working for a cheap-arse studio.

Imagine you are on a big ship, trying to get to your destination, but the peeps on the ship are starting to treat your like shit and it's getting worse every day. You then get off mid-way and take off on a tiny boat. You are taking a huge risk and it may even end your life, but at least you retain your self-dignity in the process. Do you understand the analogy?

reply

Sure but like I said Pride comes before the fall. Costner's problem wasnt yellow stone or lower pay it was the fact that hes been dissing the same demographic he expects will run to see his films. That just doesnt fly. People are not going to rush to support someone with conflicting ideological differences whether its a good film or not anymore. In the 80s and 90s.. even early 2000s it was different because the country was doing better and people were not worried so much about the future. Now we are in a whole new scenario and your average conservative traditional American literally HATE people like Kevin Costner. Theres more to a show like Yellowstone than just kevin. That show will not sink just because hes leaving it. Kevin has a very high view of self importance. People are not going to feel sorry because some guy making 1.3 million an episode had to take a pay cut. Just as they wont care if some guy with around half a billion dollars looses 38 million on a vanity project.

Basically whatever fans he thinks he has dont care. They have their own problems. Kiss their asses and work hard to entertain them. Thats his job in their minds. Thats the Cruise formula and it works. It worked well before cruise as well. Thats why a film industry exists. Costner is done of he keeps choosing this route.

reply

Yellowstone is in its final season, because he's quitting.
I bet the showrunner could have continued, but he's prolly being shortchanged, too - so he's like - nah, we're done.

reply

Hmm.. OK. Well... Tombstone would make a heck of a series if they want to start a new series. Im sure a ton of veteran actors would jump at the chance of that.Call it "the Earps" or something. It would be pro LE and thats going to need so fresh propaganda once LE get immunity from prosecution which is in the cards. Will help get the populace support going in the direction of abusive LE.

Or you can take the other angle. Earps were pretty much pricks. Center it more in line with the Cowboys and run it from their perspective.

Or do a mixture of both sides. Every Film about Tombstone or the Earps vs the Cowboys has trouble knowing how much to include.

A young guns series could work as well for something lower scale.

Theres so many older Western IPs out there its endless. Rio Bravo could be neat if done right. War Wagon. Fastest Gun Alive. I think Westerns as a Genre can be done right but they need to be amped up in terms of energy and suspense.

The risky part for studios is they are period films or series and things get expensive. Yellowstone is modern. They could work the classics into modern takes of old western films but it would go so against the modern propaganda it probably wouldnt get the green light. Young Guns could be done pretty cheap though. Seems like they were always moving and never stuck in one town. Plus the cast was fairly small. Sheridan probably has lots of ideas.

reply

Im suprised all his fans are not at least going.


They went. All 5 of them

reply

[deleted]

Many overestimates the profits made from streaming. When a film fails commercially the platforms pay next to nothing for it.
Also all sales to TV is subjected to tax. Same as when it opens wide.
If the budget was 100M plus $25M in marketing I’m guessing the net loss will be about $70M ! The film might yield $1M in revenue per years for the next 20 years reducing the net loss a bit.

This is a massive flop. Next up is that Coppola film.

reply

this is an interesting film experiment from Costner. May not be much at the start but I hope people stay with it as I think he has some grand bit of storytelling up his sleeve in the next couple movies, and that hopefully that will drive more people to this. Its audacious, epic filmmaking we should be encouraging so its sad that its struggling like this

If anyone's interested, I reviewed the movie on my youtube channel. Appreciate any feedback. Trying to improve -https://youtu.be/3Pkh7hOGdX8

reply

Its audacious all right LOL.

He better get this to the free streaming services FAST if hes putting out the next installment in August or nobody will see it. I think Warner has already agreed to advertise the first 2 films but if they both bomb I dont see that happening again. This failure is going to have snowball effect if Costner doesnt make some moves FAST. Hes rich but he wont finish this if its just going to loose him 10s of millions of dollars every time. His "Secret" funders will walk as well. Costner is then faced with 100% self funding for a project he knows will FLOP.

If it doesnt take off BIG in the next few days he needs to dump this sucker on fee streaming to try and build anticipation for the sequel in August then hope and pray he makes it up on the second for what was lost on the first.

Basically the first film would be a loss leader. I think we will know the deal by maybe the 8th or 9th. Problem is once its on streaming and people watch it they will just wait for the second film on streaming. Very tricky balancing act.

I wouldnt invest money with him. Hes far to reckless and arrogant with his remaining fan base. Hope Costner has not used up all his favors yet.

reply

Which free streaming are you referring to? Most streaming services (especially the ones showing new movies) charge a monthly premium.

reply

Thats up to Kevin. If this doesnt pick up quick I would try and get it out to all I could in order to try and attract people to the theatres for the second film. I think the next one comes out in mid August. Thats basically a month away. If people have not see the first I cant see them going to the second. Im not buying they will want to sit in a theatre for 6 hours either if they dont want to do 3. Very Bizarre strategy. Im a movie buff along with a Costner fan (Mostly the older stuff) but Im not interested in spending 6 hours sitting in a theatre. Double bill as well $30-$40 to basically see one film?

Maybe Costner should promote a challenge. "Can you watch 70 year old Kevin Costner for 6 hours and pay for it?" or "Greatest 6 Hour Epic of the year.. we promise or your money back!"

Get that 1st puppy on streaming as a loss leader and try to pull the big crowds with #2.

I can see the headlines. "Eldery Man gets "Costnered" to death while watching Horizon for 6 hours". "Movie Goers report urine soaked seats across the US at 6 hour showings of Horizon"

reply

As usual, all solid points sprinkled with humor. Maybe Costner is too ambitious expecting/hoping moviegoers will invest all the necessary money and time needed to watch the complete 12hr Horizon saga in the theater. He seems to be asking a lot from the moviegoers/fans.

By "free streaming" , you just simply meant streaming services in general that charge a monthly premium to view their content, right?

reply

Tubi, Roku, FreeMovies, Pluto, Filmrise .... theres are free streaming channels. He could just throw it on Youtube or Rumble for all to see. This strategy to release part 2 so close after part one seems like self sabotage. Its not like people where coming to the gates with pitchforks demanding a new Costner 3-6 hour drawn out western. Hes not even giving people the time to see it outside those going to the theatre and theatres are sinking fast. I wouldnt say this is a summer type movie either.

Very strange. I almost would believe Costner is trying to kill the western genre and theatres more than it already is. Who are these "Secret" investors helping him fund this strategy?

If this film doesnt catch on like FIRE by mid time next week I would dump it on Youtube to try and get it seen. Then make some INCREDIBLE high energy adds for the Part 2 and try to bring people running to see it. The adds Ive seen have been very BLAH and Vanilla. Costner seems to want to monopolize theatres with two 3 hour films that nobody is really interested in or asked for. He may end up doing a LOT more damage than anything else in terms of bringing back Cinema.

Whole lot of strangeness to this Horizon universe. Still trying to wrap my head around the closeness of the release dates. That would be better done at Christmas holidays before awards season and let the first film have some time to resonate and breath.

reply

I can't see him dropping Horizon Ch.1 on a free streaming channel any time soon. Costner is too greedy. He didn't accumulate $400 million in wealth from giving stuff away for free. I agree he may have to change his plan and do something else other than a theatrical release if it doesn't start putting butts in the seats. Releasing Chapter 2 in theater at Christmas time is a really good idea (Oscar buzz), much better than August, the first 2 chapters are being released too close together.

reply

Well from what Ive been told and seen its basically setting up the characters for the rest of the "Quadrilogy". The first Lord of the Rings was similar not that Costner is Tolkien. Basically setting up the saga. Jackson was wise enough to end on a pretty epic ending though. It was enough to get people excited and it went on to become probably the best of these type of approaches. He gave the films and audience some time to breath though and let things build. This is more like Costner just made a six hour film and then decided to cut it in half then practically release them back to back. Its weird. I dont doubt it will be a solid film when finished because even Costner's worse works are watchable. Your average film modern day film goer is not going to care though.

Hes committed to trying this approach though so I guess we get to see what happens. I seriously doubt anyone will ever try this again though. Its not just a gamble its a foolish gamble that looks more like hes trying to show off than use any common sense. Unless like I said hes basically after another Agenda. Studios will probably be even more hesitant for 3 hour films let alone westerns if this keeps tracking ts current trajectory.

reply

Yep, Costner showing off with his mega epic western masterpiece sounds about right. We'll see what happens.

reply

Making this available on streaming platforms would benefit the 2nd film numbers only if the first film gets a good reception and ends on a cliffhanger - check the endgame marvel BS - that's how they got those numbers.

If the first film is not great and doesn't have that 'ooh, i gotto see how this ends' bit, then it wouldn't do the 2nd film any good, though greater audience exposure may get a few more seats filled.

reply

Long movie. I'm pretty sure I'll check it out when it comes to streaming.

reply

Well if he waits on streaming for part 1 and 2 it goes from 3 hours to 6 hours. If you wait for all four films in order to watch the full story to the conclusion you will be spending 12 hours LOL. I doubt I could even watch Dances with Wolves for 12 hours.

He needs to re-edit this. Make it a series. 12 one hour episode series.. done. If he wants to release it first in theaters fine but after its complete put a better structure on the story in terms of viewing.

reply

presumably, you could watch it like you watch tv series - so, I don't see a problem
many tv series have a continuous story

reply

Yes and its annoying. Bad writing and dragged out. HOWEVER.. it can work and obviously this isnt something that can be made into individual storyline episodes. Even the binge type shows have somewhat of an opening and closing though. Its really what Costner should have done from the start IMO if it was going to take him 12 hours to get it done. I cant imagine how long it must have been before editing it down.....18-24 hours?

Would have helped if he could have brought in some bigger names as well. I like Sam Worthington but I doubt hes going to pull in many of the younger crowd. For a Series its fine but for 4 three hour films so heavily dependent on the first opening? It really needs to be loaded with heavy hitters even if they are just cameos. Kind of what Terrence Mallick did with A Thin Red Line. Load it up.

reply